Resources List including Detailed Hardware and System Build Notes (plus new user advice / help) v1.24

[WI_Hedgehog]

WI_Hedgehog submitted a new resource:

Resources List including Detailed Hardware and Build Notes - TrueNAS is not as simple as videos make it look, though it is fairly easy to get a system running if

TrueNAS is not as simple as videos make it look, though it is fairly easy to get a system running if you read the documentation and don't color outside the lines.

If you want to save yourself lots of money and loads of time, the top of the page has Documentation and Resources tabs which contain extremely helpful information like the TrueNAS manuals. There's also a Search tool at the upper-right that works extremely well.

As general advice, if you run TrueNAS as a NAS...

Read more about this resource...

 

[Davvo]

Hell yeah! The forum needed this.

If you're trying to repurpose an old desktop system use Ubuntu Server (possibly with ZFS though that's not the best choice for older systems, use LVM instead), not TrueNAS. Videos showing TrueNAS working for a day of filming before tearing down the system for another build is entertaining, but this isn't good for long-term stability (or even short-term stability). TrueNAS uses hardware in ways desktops were not designed for and they'll eventually break and your data will be lost forever. Use Ubuntu, --or Gentoo if you want to wander into the deep end of the pool. Trust me, repurposing a desktop will get real expensive real quick and you're better off buying used server equipment--you'll save money and time (buy a few replacement fans if you want it to be quiet).

Imho it would be better (in order to not mislead, which I think the current wording might) to add that a few of the requirements the users must respect with TN do apply to ALL ZFS-based systems as well (mainly hardware raid controllers, especially the ones with a cache).

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Like math, I wanted to stay away from technical stuff in the introduction so the intro. is understandable.

Is what you're referring to covered under:
First build TrueNAS as a NAS on server-grade hardware, and when that's tested and stable incrementally expand it...

and:
Basic Understanding:
- The 'Hidden' Cost of Using ZFS for Your Home NAS
- ZFS Introduction
- ZFS Pool Layout
- ZFS Capacity Calculator
- RAID-Z1 is Dangerous (well, -Z0 is worse)

and:
Hardware:
- Host Bus Adapter (HBA) vs RAID Controller (realllly important, even though...)

Open to suggestions.

 

[Davvo]

Is what you're referring to covered under:
- Host Bus Adapter (HBA) vs RAID Controller (realllly important, even though...)

Yes, but someone might just read the first introductory paragraphs, see that he can use his old/current hardware without limitations on Ubuntu and then lose its data.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

I agree. I started to modify it but realized examples like data on the boot drive, partitions, mismatched drives (and having to explain the many ways this can happen), ECC RAM, HDD caching, etc. is going to be a lot of technical words that probably don't mean anything to many people. (Until they lose their data, then it'll matter.)

How about the addition of a few links, slight change in wording, and this addition:
If the above suggestions don't meet your needs because you have valuable data and truckloads of it, and you're convinced you need an industrial storage solution on server-grade equipment to handle it (without breaking the bank), then TrueNAS is probably what you want.

It doesn't address the ZFS under Ubuntu Server issue, or data under LVM, but that's kind of a Ubuntu documentation issue.

 

[Davvo]

I mean, imho it would be enough to not pass the message "your old hardware is not compatible with TN but it is unconditionally for ZFS in any other OSs". Maybe the only things that are specific to TN are Realtek NICs.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Although, l can think of cases where Ubuntu Server with ZFS would work fine, or Ubuntu with ZFS so it can double as a workstation (not a great idea though sometimes necessary).

One place I know of used the Windows NT Server as the owner's desktop because: why not, it works great. Some people are "too smart" to learn by anything besides failure.

 

[Davvo]

Also, in the list I didn't seem to see Arwen's resource on dedup. It might be quite useful.

Resource - ZFS de-Duplication - Or why you shouldn't use de-dup

The TrueNAS forums occasionally have people who come across ZFS de-duplicate, and want to investigate its use. Or think it is a good idea, and want to implement it. Here are some suggested configuration details: Understand that you need CPU...

www.truenas.com

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Awesome. I was looking for that in another thread and had missed reading it in a post by @Arwen. Thank you both for excellent help.

 

[Davvo]

This link instead shows coolers compatibility regarding the backplate that's often found in server motherboards. It might be useful to add into this resource.

 

[Davvo]

Oh and for ddt there is this resource as well.

My experiments in building a home server capable of handling fast + consistent deduplication

AIM: To help people looking at deduplication on TrueNAS 12+, what I've found on the way making it work on mine. On sustained mixed loads, such as 50GB+ file copies and multiple transfers, using TrueNAS 12 with a deduped pool and default config...

www.truenas.com

 

[Davvo]

I know I'm spamming notifications (sorry), but I want to point out that the documentation regarding ddt is great.

ZFS Deduplication

Provides general information on ZFS deduplication in TrueNAS,hardware recommendations, and useful deduplication CLI commands.

www.truenas.com

 

[Davvo]

Also (yep, notification again) the introductionary part is a bit harsher than it should.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Also (yep, notification again) the introductionary part is a bit harsher than it should.

I think for a headstrong younger audience it is necessarily direct without being overly-strong, and that as members gain experience they'll start pushing boundaries as they see necessary for their situation--at least I hope such is the case.

 

[Davvo]

I think for a headstrong younger audience it is necessarily direct without being overly-strong, and that as members gain experience they'll start pushing boundaries as they see necessary for their situation--at least I hope such is the case.

Plex/Jellyfin: This isn't a great idea for many reasons, though it can be done. [...]

This line imho is not necessary since it's not really true and the following lines explain adequately the challenges.

 

[joeschmuck]

Very nice collection of references in one spot. I watched the Wolfgang video on building a power savings server, very interesting and I wish I had seen all that when I first built my server. I'm still very happy with my server, no complaints at all.

 

[samarium]

Although, l can think of cases where Ubuntu Server with ZFS would work fine, or Ubuntu with ZFS so it can double as a workstation (not a great idea though sometimes necessary).

One place I know of used the Windows NT Server as the owner's desktop because: why not, it works great. Some people are "too smart" to learn by anything besides failure.

I've been running zfs desktop for years, and it is doing exactly what I want of it, checksum data and snapshots and datasets and backup by send/recv, it is exactly what I want. It has got a lot better since ubuntu started shipping zfs modules precompiled, much easier than chasing down dkms issues. It might be a 12+ year old laptop with only 8GB ram, non ecc, but it works for me. Since the laptop only has one drive, it runs unmirrored, however there is adequate backup replication, so I would not classify this as a "not good" setup, it does what I want, I know the limitations, and I have adequate backup. Not everything has to have gold plated redundancy, it need appropriate redundancy, which may even be none. I don't want btrfs, or ext4 or xfs, so I disagree with "not a great idea, but sometimes necessary". My ubuntu server is zfs based too, rpool and data pools. My backup repository is just a pi4 4GB, but enough to work OK, the USB drives aren't a great connection, but better than burn a lot of power with a desktop system in the background. If I can get the eSATA cabling working on my M900 tiny, I might move ZFS backup server to there.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

This line imho is not necessary since it's not really true and the following lines explain adequately the challenges.

I've been running zfs desktop for years, and it is doing exactly what I want of it, checksum data and snapshots and datasets and backup by send/recv, it is exactly what I want. ... only 8GB ram, non ecc, but it works for me. .... it runs unmirrored, .... Not everything has to have gold plated redundancy, it need appropriate redundancy, which may even be none. I don't want btrfs, or ext4 or xfs, so I disagree with "not a great idea, but sometimes necessary". My ubuntu server is zfs based too, rpool and data pools. My backup repository is just a pi4 4GB, but enough to work OK, the USB drives aren't a great connection, but better than burn a lot of power with a desktop system in the background. If I can get the eSATA cabling working on my M900 tiny, I might move ZFS backup server to there.

Complexity tends to undermine a system.

ZFS is RAM intensive, it's Zebras All The Way Down. ECC is suggested based on reducing the probability of negative outcomes.

The more jobs a server does the more points of failure exist. To build a reliable server, reduce the number of potential failure points.

iXsystems puts an incredible amount of effort into making stable systems, that is the context of my comments.

 

[samarium]

I use ECC on my servers, and think it should be used on servers. And while I would like it on my desktops too, I blame Intel. It it not your comments on TN servers I have the problem with, it it your general statements about other uses of ZFS. As I said, no everyone is running ZFS using TN S/C, and your comment will be read out of that context, especially when you are commenting on non TN S/C ZFS deployments, about I wonder how much experience you have compared to freenas, truenas. I've certainly been using ZFS for 10+ years, with solaris and opensolaris, IIRC that was even when linux had a non-kernel based implementation, and then with kernel modules via DKMS, and finally with ubuntu and precompiled modules, which is a much better experience. While I like TN, there are still lots of warts on the webui when it comes to doing anything non generic, or troubleshooting, or dealing with foreign pools, or network management. It can't even rename a dataset, or rename a pool, at least as far as I can see, and if it is hidden that deep, it is too deep for usability, not to mention the differeing ways of attaching a mirror to a boot-pool or a data pool. Fortunately shell is available. Unfortunately the webui is frustrating enough that I tend to stick to the shell. We won't even start on k3s, which seems to be very premature given all the issues people seem to have with it, and all the breakage that happens on upgrades, and that is not considering truecharts at all, since it is not IX. IX is making progress with the software, but they still have a ways to go with TNS certainly. I'm not a user of TNC, and I know most of the long time members here are TNC users, and TN probably works better on Core, certainly it has better integration with the memory subsystem, probably due to it's Solaris roots the Linux memory system, and I find that irritating not that it is an IX problem, nor do I expect them to be able to solve it.

 

[dak180]

@WI_Hedgehog may I suggest TrueNAS-Report as an addition for the Ease of Use section.