[Newbie] Mini-ITX Mobo in 2023

[Etorix]

"TDP" is not the same as "power consumption". At idle, all these Xeon-D will sip similar amount of power, irrespective of how they can ramp up.

CPU performance would be for running apps/VMs, or for handling multiple clients. But not for single-threaded SMB.

If you're set on adding a SFP+ card, go for the cheapest D-1541 option, which also happens to be the most powerful (or least underpowered) CPU.

 

[neetbuck]

At idle, all these Xeon-D will sip similar amount of power

Oh fair enough, what about heat? I'm worried about cooling in this small case (plus i live in a hot country)

handling multiple clients

such is the case

If you're set on adding a SFP+ card, go for the cheapest D-1541 option

Not set on SPF+, but it seems like according to this forum it's better than 10GBase T.

Do you think the X10SDV-F is the better option in general?

If I decided to still go with new as opposed to second hand, do you think the higher performance CPU of the X10SDV-6C-TLN4F is worth it over the X10SDV-4C-TLN4F? I'm not going to have apps or vms, but I will have a few clients pulling from the NAS.

 

[Davvo]

- X10SDV-4C-TLN4F // D-1518 / 35W TDP / 10GbE: Yes / 4C 8T/ 2.2 GHz / 808,03€

- X10SDV-F // D-1541 / 45W TDP / 10GbE: No / 8C 16T / 2.1 GHz / 499,00€

The X10SDV-4C-TLN4F seems like the moderate choice if I'm buying new and want to limit power consumption

300€ for a difference of 10W (of TDP!) half the cores and a 10GbE has little sense in your situation imho. Go second option.

 

[neetbuck]

300€ for a difference of 10W (of TDP!) half the cores and a 10GbE has little sense in your situation imho. Go second option.

I agree, although I'm very very squeamish about second hand purchases - to me it seems like second hand products have a shortened lifespan that is impossible to determine or calculate, and therefore they are always a big risk... and imo they often are a losing risk. I feel like I constantly watch friends and family buy second hand thinking they just landed the deal of their lives - only for them to have to replace it a year or two later because it took a sh*t and died.

If I were to go new, do you think that the X10SDV-6C would be overkill compared to the X10SDV-4C?

 

[Davvo]

I agree, although I'm very very squeamish about second hand purchases - to me it seems like second hand products have a shortened lifespan that is impossible to determine or calculate, and therefore they are always a big risk... and imo they often are a losing risk. I feel like I constantly watch friends and family buy second hand thinking they just landed the deal of their lives - only for them to have to replace it a year or two later because it took a sh*t and died.

True, but we are talking about server-grade second hand equipment that has a rock solid reputation.

If I were to go new, do you think that the X10SDV-6C would be overkill compared to the X10SDV-4C?

If money is not an issue I'd always go with a 6C, more room to do things.

 

[neetbuck]

server-grade second hand equipment that has a rock solid reputation

yeah that's what's making me considering despite my aversion lol.

If money is not an issue I'd always go with a 6C, more room to do things.

What about temperatures and cooling? Everybody has been scaring me about cooling because my build is in a Jonsbo N2, which means the mobo will only get cooling from a fan I can finagle onto the passive cooling of the CPU with zip-ties...

... if that's the case wouldn't the 4C be the best option given that it will probably meet my requirements and run less hot, followed by the 6C and then the X10SDV-F in last place?

 

[Davvo]

yeah that's what's making me considering despite my aversion lol.


What about temperatures and cooling? Everybody has been scaring me about cooling because my build is in a Jonsbo N2, which means the mobo will only get cooling from a fan I can finagle onto the passive cooling of the CPU with zip-ties...

... if that's the case wouldn't the 4C be the best option given that it will probably meet my requirements and run less hot, followed by the 6C and then the X10SDV-F in last place?

10W TDP doesn't make that big of a difference imho and besides, according to your numbers, there is no difference in TDP between 6C and 4C; going with a non-passive cooler could help. I don't have experience from that case, but imho your biggest concern (as I think already wrote since I'm getting a deja-vu) will be your drives' temperature.

As I wrote, I'd go with the 16C.

 

[Etorix]

What about temperatures and cooling? Everybody has been scaring me about cooling because my build is in a Jonsbo N2, which means the mobo will only get cooling from a fan I can finagle onto the passive cooling of the CPU with zip-ties...

Irrespective of TDP, these boards need some airflow on the heatsink. With a non-server case, put a 60 mm fan on the heatsink as described here and call it a day.

... if that's the case wouldn't the 4C be the best option given that it will probably meet my requirements and run less hot, followed by the 6C and then the X10SDV-F in last place?

Only a scrub is likely to run the CPU at full power in a sustained manner, and then the D-1541 with more cores will finish earlier so it's not even clear that is will use more power in total.
Any option likely meets your requirements. The 10 GbE NIC, if present, is "serviceable" (@jgreco) even though SFP+ is preferred.

The concern is price. Supported SFP+ NICs retail for $50 (Solarflare), refurbished, so the second-hand X10SDV-F with a NIC card looks like a much better deal than spending 800-1000 E on a new retail board—especially when said board is based on Broadwell-era SoC.
800-1000 E is also the price point for X11SDV (Skylake) and X12SDV (Ice Lake) boards… when available. These newer embedded boards are designed for heavier compute tasks, use more power, especially at idle, which is not desirable for a NAS, and are typically larger than mini-ITX so these would not meet your requirements. But the comparison makes it hard to spend so much on a X10SDV board.

 

[neetbuck]

but imho your biggest concern (as I think already wrote since I'm getting a deja-vu) will be your drives' temperature.

Yes you did mention that, not a lot I can do though... I bought a noctua fan to replace the one that comes with the case. I've seen someone make a 3D fixture for the back of the chasis to be able to fit a fan with a bigger profile... so ig I can resort to a measure like that if they're overheating a lot.

so it's not even clear that is will use more power in total.

Interesting, I'm starting to be really sold on getting the second hand X10SDV-F off of ebay... I might go ahead and do that today. And yeah I'm planning on attaching a fan onto the passive cooling like how the article you sent shows - I've seen some people use zip-ties too.

I'm a bit worried about getting a SFP+ NIC, will it fit given the height restrictions on the case? I have no idea how much space they usually take up? I think I want to go with SFP+ given the article that was shared with me on here - it seems like fiber is the way to go.

 

[Davvo]

I'm a bit worried about getting a SFP+ NIC, will it fit given the height restrictions on the case? I have no idea how much space they usually take up? I think I want to go with SFP+ given the article that was shared with me on here - it seems like fiber is the way to go.

Single plug/cage cards usually come with both a regular bracket and a small bracket for this kind of builds, I don't know about multiple plugs/cages.

 

[neetbuck]

Single plug/cage cards usually come with both a regular bracket and a small bracket for this kind of builds, I don't know about multiple plugs/cages.

It seems like the same applies to dual port cards - I plan on possibly getting a switch for my network, would I need two ports for such a build or would one suffice? (I really need to read up on this, as I'm only just starting to understand it all)

 

[Davvo]

It seems like the same applies to dual port cards - I plan on possibly getting a switch for my network, would I need two ports for such a build or would one suffice? (I really need to read up on this, as I'm only just starting to understand it all)

Start from here.

10 Gig Networking Primer

This is a discussion of high speed networking for newcomers, with specific emphasis on practical small- to medium-scale deployments for home labs or small office users. It originated with a forum thread located here that has many pages of...

www.truenas.com

Having two ports/cages is helpful in many ways, but you might want to check the PCIe lanes/slot requirements.

 

[jgreco]

I'm a bit worried about getting a SFP+ NIC, will it fit given the height restrictions on the case? I have no idea how much space they usually take up? I think I want to go with SFP+ given the article that was shared with me on here - it seems like fiber is the way to go.

I don't know where users get these weird ideas about "SFP+ NIC" like they're all one sort of thing. Just like GPU's or HBA's, they are not all the same size. Since they typically throw off some watts, they usually have a heatsink on them. You can get low profile cards, which is most of the more recent single or dual 10G cards, and you can get them with full height or low profile brackets. Either way, you have to be able to assure some airflow over them. Cards such as the Solarflare SFN6122F consume less watts than classic favorites like the Intel X520-SR2, but are probably about the same size. There are also quad cards, and/or sometimes newer 25G or 40G cards, that are full height. These will not fit a low profile slot. In some cases, careful shopping can land you something like Supermicro's AOC-STG-i4S (quad 10G in a half height) or even AOC-S25GC-i4S (quad 25G in a half height, warning PCIe x16!) and these are about as big as cards get without deliberately choosing stupid options. This isn't like the old days when cards might be full LENGTH of the PCIe bay. They aren't as short as some other types of cards but they're fairly practical to work with.

 

[Whattteva]

I agree, although I'm very very squeamish about second hand purchases - to me it seems like second hand products have a shortened lifespan that is impossible to determine or calculate, and therefore they are always a big risk... and imo they often are a losing risk. I feel like I constantly watch friends and family buy second hand thinking they just landed the deal of their lives - only for them to have to replace it a year or two later because it took a sh*t and died.

If I were to go new, do you think that the X10SDV-6C would be overkill compared to the X10SDV-4C?

Everything but the case in the "NAS1" system on my signature is second-hand (yes, even the enterprise SSD's & HDD's). I have no regrets and it saved me over $1500 for a Xeon Silver with 224 GB of ECC RAM. Would do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[neetbuck]

Start from here.

Thanks, I'll read that now :)

they are not all the same size.

That's what I meant lol. I wasn't saying that I thought they were all the same size. I just don't have any experience owning any, so I don't know if it's enough for me to just make sure to buy one that says "low profile" in the specs/description.

you have to be able to assure some airflow over them.

Do you just mean space for air to flow, or do you mean a fan? because I can only fit one fan for the cpu in the Jonsbo N2 and it will be going on top of the CPUs pre-installed passive cooling.

Cards such as the Solarflare SFN6122F consume less watts than classic favorites like the Intel X520-SR2, but are probably about the same size.

What's the difference/trade-off between those two? Also you later mentioned quad 10g cards - is there a point to these? I was under the impression that if you need more connections, people tend to use a switch...or is this wrong?

Would do it again in a heartbeat.

Fair enough

 

[Davvo]

Do you just mean space for air to flow, or do you mean a fan? because I can only fit one fan for the cpu in the Jonsbo N2 and it will be going on top of the CPUs pre-installed passive cooling.

He means there has to be airflow inside the case, specifically near the heatsink, in order to dissipate the heat generated by the network card. It's the same concept of having to attach a fan on the CPU heatsink: you need to move away the heat from the heatsink.

 

[neetbuck]

there has to be airflow inside the case, specifically near the heatsink, in order to dissipate the heat generated by the network card

the only airflow that it will get is any residual airflow from the CPU fan, I don't think there's room for another fan in this build given the case

 

[neetbuck]

OK so I purchased the x10SDV-F, 4x sticks of samsung RDIMM M393A4K40BB0-CPB (32gb each) and a Noctua nf-a6x25 pwm.

I'm unsure about the PSU, NIC, HDDs, SSD (for booting) and what cables and miscellaneous items I might also need to complete the build. Any guidance would be really appreciated.

 

[Davvo]

I'm unsure about the PSU, NIC, HDDs, SSD (for booting) and what cables and miscellaneous items I might also need to complete the build. Any guidance would be really appreciated.

PSU: you need a SFX one, silverstone and corsair make good ones. Read the following resource in order to get the power requirements right.

Proper Power Supply Sizing Guidance

I've seen about 1,000 threads like this one where people decide that they can power a dozen hard drives off a 360 watt supply. DO NOT DO THIS. I've seen another 1,000 threads where people decide to buy the cheapest power supply that they can...

www.truenas.com

NIC: you are good with what you have, no need for money.

HDDs: Seagate's Ironwolf for the win, PRO version has longer MTBF and warranty.

Boot drive: anything is fine since you can easily replace it and import your config file. Take the cheapest you can find.

 

[neetbuck]

NIC: you are good with what you have, no need for money.

I mean, I don't mind the money, I'm spending way less than I was thinking I would in the end... and I want to have the option to use 10GbE. Do you have any suggestions? I"m worried about getting a NIC that fits in my case, vertically that is, I think horizontally most should be fine.

Read the following resource in order to get the power requirements right.

I'm gonna post what I calculated after reading the Power Supply Sizing Guide:

• HDDs: 35W * 5 = 175W
• Mainboard: 25W
• CPU: 45W
• RAM: 6W * 4 = 24W
• Fans: 30W * 2 = 60W

which makes at total of 329W... is this correct? I also looked at online calculators and got 400-499W on newegg and 231W on outervision, so I don't know what to think lol.