Is ECC necessary if you're on a budget and you want specific specs?

[Chris221]

Edit: I will go for the ECC build in the future. So I am building my first NAS (6x4TB in RAIDZ2) that is just within my max budget and found out I should be using ECC because corruption can happen. The issue is that it seems like specs are lower if I go the ECC route and it's overbudget for me. Is it worth getting ECC if budget and performance is what I want? I will mostly be using it to regularly archive video files, DaVinci Resolve Studio project files, game files, fonts, files from my classes, etc. I will also consider making full pc backups (currently incremental back up for videos, pictures, and audio) and yes I know a backup would also mean using cloud storage like Backblaze where I have an account and starting to figure things out. It's mostly a YouTube hobby with little money being made and some gaming which should remain the same for a few year. But I am in Film Production and I may eventually work in post-production where corruption could possibly be a problem for me. How much does ECC matter in my case? I would appreciate any advice on it.

Non-ECC NAS $951.67 build
- Intel Core i3-10100 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor
- MSI B560M PRO-VDH WIFI Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard
- Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
- WD_BLACK 250GB SN770 M.2 for TrueNAS
- 6x4TB WD Red Plus 128 MB Cache in RAIDZ2
- Fractal Design Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case
- Thermaltake Toughpower GX1 600 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply

ECC NAS $1126.82 build
- Intel Core i3-6320 3.9 GHz Dual-Core Processor
- Supermicro MBD-X11SSL-F-O Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
- 2x Kingston Server Premier 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 CL19 Memory [ECC/Unbuffered]
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive for TrueNAS
- LSI 9211-8i P20 for more SATA connections
- 6x4TB WD Red Plus 128 MB Cache in RAIDZ2
- Fractal Design Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case
- Thermaltake Toughpower GX1 600 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply

 

[Chris221]

BTW the reason I'm going for so many smaller drives is just because I want RAIDZ2 and want upgrade to bigger drives later when I need more space.

 

[MisterE2002]

On budget? Look for second hand X9 supermicro. At least 32GB memory is recommended.
Later upgrading disk sound quite expensive. You know you have to resilver the complete pool disk for disk?

18TB seems best price/capacity atm. here in Europe (enterprise disks of Toshiba MG09 & Seagate EXOS).

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Really, that's "a lot" of data you'll be looking at, and you're basically saying, "I'd like to buy a Mercedes Benz semi-truck to haul it around, but I can't afford one (and actually only need a flatbed at the moment). How about if I use really, really poor oil in the Mercedes?"

I think you're just asking for trouble by using a system designed to be used in a server-room on iffy equipment.

Consider a popular Linux distribution and using LVM, because you're only at the start of TrueNAS expense. Not being able to afford to upgrade a TrueNAS system when you run out of storage space is going to be painful because it's not as easy as one might think. LVM and RAID-6 has a lot of redundancy built-in, and should work for you until you're able to afford a better system down the road. If you look into reading SMART logs (discussed in several recent threads) and SMART testing you'll have a much better chance of seeing if and when a drive is going to fail and replacing it before any data is lost. Your "popular distribution" should be easy to install, use, and figure out how to keep running, allowing you to focus on your work.

With either system you'll need a great 3-2-1 backup strategy, and that should probably be your biggest focus. Say one late night you're on "the server" and accidentally delete a directory--the wrong directory, the OMG directory. It doesn't matter if you're running Ubuntu or Gentoo or TrueNAS, it's gone. If you have excellent backups you can bring it back. You need a great backup plan. If one backup gets trashed (and it will) you'll still have more. Document your backup strategy, always follow the strategy, and you'll be much farther ahead than putting all your files on TrueNAS alone.

You'll know when you're ready for a home datacenter because there won't be any other good option to solve your needs--then choose TrueNAS. By that time you'll be able to afford a proper, reliable TrueNAS system.

 

[danb35]

Is ECC necessary? No, it's never "necessary"--but it's pretty strongly recommended if you care about your data. Once the data gets to disk, ZFS protects it quite well--but while it's in RAM before it gets written, it can be corrupted, and if it's written in that state, all the backups in the world won't do you a bit of good. ECC protects against this risk. The so-called "scrub of death" is astronomically unlikely, but bad RAM corrupting your data before it's written is a plausible scenario.

For storage, I'd recommend a pair of 16-20 TB spinners in a mirror.

 

[Chris221]

Really, that's "a lot" of data you'll be looking at, and you're basically saying, "I'd like to buy a Mercedes Benz semi-truck to haul it around, but I can't afford one (and actually only need a flatbed at the moment). How about if I use really, really poor oil in the Mercedes?"

I think you're just asking for trouble by using a system designed to be used in a server-room on iffy equipment.

Consider a popular Linux distribution and using LVM, because you're only at the start of TrueNAS expense. Not being able to afford to upgrade a TrueNAS system when you run out of storage space is going to be painful because it's not as easy as one might think. LVM and RAID-6 has a lot of redundancy built-in, and should work for you until you're able to afford a better system down the road. If you look into reading SMART logs (discussed in several recent threads) and SMART testing you'll have a much better chance of seeing if and when a drive is going to fail and replacing it before any data is lost. Your "popular distribution" should be easy to install, use, and figure out how to keep running, allowing you to focus on your work.

With either system you'll need a great 3-2-1 backup strategy, and that should probably be your biggest focus. Say one late night you're on "the server" and accidentally delete a directory--the wrong directory, the OMG directory. It doesn't matter if you're running Ubuntu or Gentoo or TrueNAS, it's gone. If you have excellent backups you can bring it back. You need a great backup plan. If one backup gets trashed (and it will) you'll still have more. Document your backup strategy, always follow the strategy, and you'll be much farther ahead than putting all your files on TrueNAS alone.

You'll know when you're ready for a home datacenter because there won't be any other good option to solve your needs--then choose TrueNAS. By that time you'll be able to afford a proper, reliable TrueNAS system.

Since I only have 0.5 TB in archives after a year, I think I prefer an direct external drive (or two drives in a dock in raid 1) paired with Backblaze which I just tested and really liked. I was way over my head wasting to much on tight budget. Thanks for the recommendation anyway.

 

[Chris221]

Is ECC necessary? No, it's never "necessary"--but it's pretty strongly recommended if you care about your data. Once the data gets to disk, ZFS protects it quite well--but while it's in RAM before it gets written, it can be corrupted, and if it's written in that state, all the backups in the world won't do you a bit of good. ECC protects against this risk. The so-called "scrub of death" is astronomically unlikely, but bad RAM corrupting your data before it's written is a plausible scenario.

For storage, I'd recommend a pair of 16-20 TB spinners in a mirror.

Thanks. I will be building the ECC system when I get to that point. I decided to do just that, just go for two big mirror drives. I will be using a dock since I just re-calculated and either of the NAS systems are too expensive for a college student like me. Although not sure I would be able to move from RAID 1 to RAIDZ 1 after moving to a NAS in a few years.

 

[Davvo]

My two cents are that if you are willing to use a file system that has data integrity as its main feature, you want to use ECC to cover its only flaw (which is memory corruption). Especially since there is no chkdsk.
Is it a necessity? Strictly speaking no. Not using ECC is a weakpoint? Absolutely yes, although not on the level of using 6x18TB in RAIDZ1.

 

[danb35]

Although not sure I would be able to move from RAID 1 to RAIDZ 1 after moving to a NAS in a few years.

You wouldn't be able to do this, at least with ZFS. Other OSs and filesystems may have different rules.

 

[Chris221]

You wouldn't be able to do this, at least with ZFS. Other OSs and filesystems may have different rules.

Not sure it's safe, but someone recommends to take one drive from the RAID 1 group, reformat it, then copy the cotents from the disk in the degraded system. I could just take the safe route and copy the contents from the mirror to spare disk, make a RAIDZ2 system, and copy the contents when the time comes.

[mod note: ZFS does not support RAID 1]

 

[danb35]

but someone recommends to take one drive from the RAID 1 group, reformat it, then copy the cotents from the disk in the degraded system.

Sure, there are a variety of hacky ways to simulate "turn mirror into RAIDZ1;" a degraded pool is one of them (and I've written a resource on exactly that), mucking about with partitions is another, and there may be yet others. All of them have in common that there's a fair risk of data loss if you don't do everything exactly right.

 

[sretalla]

direct external drive (or two drives in a dock in raid 1)

That usually means that you want to use USB and maybe some funky kind of multi-dock.

Be aware that USB and data pools don't play well together due to the way that ZFS does transaction grouping and you'll often burn out the USB controller in surprisingly short order.

Also be aware that many USB external docks use poor SATA controllers or port multipliers:

Multiply your problems with SATA Port Multipliers and cheap SATA controllers

In the last year or two, we've had a resurgence of users asking about SATA Port Multipliers and cheap SATA controllers. Please, do NOT use port multipliers, and use cheap SATA controllers only after extensive research. SATA controllers and SATA...

www.truenas.com

 

[Arwen]

Thanks. I will be building the ECC system when I get to that point. I decided to do just that, just go for two big mirror drives. I will be using a dock since I just re-calculated and either of the NAS systems are too expensive for a college student like me. Although not sure I would be able to move from RAID 1 to RAIDZ 1 after moving to a NAS in a few years.

If by dock you mean a USB device with 2 disk slots, and potentially with an internal RAID controller, then you should also read this:

Why you should avoid USB attached drives for data pool disks

This subject has been coming up quite often in the last year or 2. Perhaps because of TrueNAS SCALE has brought forth some attention to TrueNAS in general and ZFS in specific. Please note that this is about USB attached storage for ZFS data...

www.truenas.com

 

[Etorix]

ECC NAS $1126.82 build
- Intel Core i3-6320 3.9 GHz Dual-Core Processor
- Supermicro MBD-X11SSL-F-O Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
- 2x Kingston Server Premier 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-2666 CL19 Memory [ECC/Unbuffered]
- SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive for TrueNAS
- JESOT SATA Card 4 Port with 4 SATA Cables

Just two quick comments on this list:
You really, REALLY, want to stay clear of SATA controller cards. Get a proper SAS HBA, or just a motherboard with enough SATA ports. @sretalla already posted the relevant link above.
The rationale for picking a different boot drive in both builds is not clear… Generally, you just want any small and cheap drive (M.2 NVMe may help saving a SATA port).

To contain cost, look for second-hand/refurbished server parts. Data drives and PSU are probably best bought new, but motherboard, CPU and RAM can advantageously be "clean pull" from one of the many eBay sellers making a living out of recycling servers after an upgrade.

 

[Chris221]

If by dock you mean a USB device with 2 disk slots, and potentially with an internal RAID controller, then you should also read this:

Why you should avoid USB attached drives for data pool disks

This subject has been coming up quite often in the last year or 2. Perhaps because of TrueNAS SCALE has brought forth some attention to TrueNAS in general and ZFS in specific. Please note that this is about USB attached storage for ZFS data...

www.truenas.com

That's what I mean by dock. I was going to use the QNAP TR-002 2-Bay USB 3.1 GEN 2 RAID Expansion Enclosure, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[Chris221]

Just two quick comments on this list:
You really, REALLY, want to stay clear of SATA controller cards. Get a proper SAS HBA, or just a motherboard with enough SATA ports. @sretalla already posted the relevant link above.
The rationale for picking a different boot drive in both builds is not clear… Generally, you just want any small and cheap drive (M.2 NVMe may help saving a SATA port).

To contain cost, look for second-hand/refurbished server parts. Data drives and PSU are probably best bought new, but motherboard, CPU and RAM can advantageously be "clean pull" from one of the many eBay sellers making a living out of recycling servers after an upgrade.

Thanks, didn't know about SAS HBAs. Would this be any good 10Gtek Internal PCI Express SAS/SATA HBA RAID Controller Card with PCIe x8 connection

 

[Davvo]

Thanks, didn't know about SAS HBAs. Would this be any good 10Gtek Internal PCI Express SAS/SATA HBA RAID Controller Card with PCIe x8 connection

Unlikely. Well it appear to be LSI 9211-8I so maybe.

What's all the noise about HBAs, and why can't I use a RAID controller?

1) An HBA is a Host Bus Adapter. This is a controller that allows SAS and SATA devices to be attached to, and communicate directly with, a server. RAID controllers typically aggregate several disks into a Virtual Disk abstraction of some sort...

www.truenas.com

 

[Chris221]

Unlikely.

What's all the noise about HBAs, and why can't I use a RAID controller?

1) An HBA is a Host Bus Adapter. This is a controller that allows SAS and SATA devices to be attached to, and communicate directly with, a server. RAID controllers typically aggregate several disks into a Virtual Disk abstraction of some sort...

www.truenas.com

Oh, thanks. Now I know I should use LSI HBAs.

 

[Arwen]

That's what I mean by dock. I was going to use the QNAP TR-002 2-Bay USB 3.1 GEN 2 RAID Expansion Enclosure, but now I'm not so sure.

Well, that device is better than some. It has;

• Cooling fan
• USB 3.x speed
• Lockable disk trays

Still not recommended for ZFS usage, as many of the other gotchas and no-nos apply.

 

[Chris221]

Well, that device is better than some. It has;

• Cooling fan
• USB 3.x speed
• Lockable disk trays

Still not recommended for ZFS usage, as many of the other gotchas and no-nos apply.

I won't be using ZFS until I get a proper ECC NAS system. I will use a RAID 1 mirror on the QNAP for now with Backblaze to get a basic 3-2-1 plan, then I will transfer the data I have stored on the RAID 1 system to the ZFS system.