Disk at 50C or spin down the disks?

[ragametal]

Hi, I have a situation where I must decide between two non-ideal conditions that may affect the lifespan of my disks and I would like to hear the opinion of the community.

I currently installed Truenas on a QNAP TS-253D. This unit will be used as a target for remote replication tasks of my main Truenas server. I decided to go this route instead of building my own because this unit is small, quiet and uses very little electricity which is ideal as it will be installed at a friend's house. I’m using 2 HD Red Pros which are rated for up to 65C.

Anyway, this unit has a fan that can be set to “Auto” or “Manual” in the BIOS. When set to Auto, the fan is almost silent as it runs at very low speeds. The downside is that the fan speed never increases as truenas cannot control this fan (at least I haven’t found a way of doing it). Because of that, the disks temps remain above 40C at idle and they get as high as 51C under heavy use such as Badblocks test.

If I set the fan to “Manual”, the disk temps drops about 5-6C because the fan runs at full speed all the time. However, this option produces unacceptable noise levels, so it will have to stay in “Auto”.

Should I be concerned, or are these temperature acceptable? I ask because I know that the general consensus here is to try to maintain the disk temps under 40C even when the disks are rated for 65C.

As a possible solution to lower the disk temperatures I was thinking that maybe I could spindown the disks when not in use. I know that this practice is not recommended because the start/stop cycling could reduce the lifespan of the disks but, is this still true for disks that will only be spindown once a day (for daily replication backups)?

So, what do you say would be a less bad situation? Running the disks at a constant 40-50C or to spin them down once a day?

I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[Davvo]

I'm really new to the NAS world so take my words with judgment.

Anyway, this unit has a fan that can be set to “Auto” or “Manual” in the BIOS. When set to Auto, the fan is almost silent as it runs at very low speeds. The downside is that the fan speed never increases as truenas cannot control this fan (at least I haven’t found a way of doing it). Because of that, the disks temps remain above 40C at idle and they get as high as 51C under heavy use such as Badblocks test.

If I set the fan to “Manual”, the disk temps drops about 5-6C because the fan runs at full speed all the time. However, this option produces unacceptable noise levels, so it will have to stay in “Auto”.

Can't you tweak the manual rpm of the fan to find a balance between noise and temperature? Did you consider swapping the fan with a better/quieter one?

So, what do you say would be a less bad situation? Running the disks at a constant 40-50C or to spin them down once a day?

I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

I wouldn't spin the disks down as temperature is still way under their maximum rated limit; whilist not optimal, I believe this should be the less hazardous choice for your drives. I would still consider this a temporary solutions though.

Tried to give you some inspiration.

 

[Samuel Tai]

I had a similar situation with my former chassis, which led to my drives running warm. This did result in an increased rate of disk failures with Red Pluses (5400 RPM); you can expect a similar elevated rate of thermal failures with your Red Pros (7200 RPM). I got sick of this, so I transplanted my motherboard and disks to a roomier chassis with better airflow.

 

[ragametal]

@Davvo, thanks for your input and my train of thought is similar to yours. About the fan speed, the BIOS is extremely simplistic (this is a NAS after all, not a regular motherboard) and there is not an option to set the fan speed when it is set to "Manual". /the only choices are to set it to either "Auto" or "Manual".

@Samuel Tai, I would probably do the same thing if i had standard hardware but not an option in this case. I'm curious now, how warm were your disks when you started to experience failures?

 

[Samuel Tai]

@Samuel Tai, I would probably do the same thing if i had standard hardware but not an option in this case. I'm curious now, how warm were your disks when you started to experience failures?

They typically ran in the high 40s, and I would see a disk fail about 1-2x per year. Since the transplant, they now run in the mid 30s, and I've had to replace only 1 in 2 years.

 

[ragametal]

They typically ran in the high 40s, and I would see a disk fail about 1-2x per year. Since the transplant, they now run in the mid 30s, and I've had to replace only 1 in 2 years.

That is substantial and a very good point in favor of spinning the disks down.

 

[Davvo]

That is substantial and a very good point in favor of spinning the disks down.

It's a good point in favor of getting better airflow as he transplanted the system into another case. There is no doubt that lower temperatures equals more reliable drives.

Edit: In regards to the bios settings, I do find unlikely that "manual" doesn't allow you to have any influence on the rpm of the fan or the target temperature; if it's fixed to a set value it would have probably been named differently imho.

Edit2: Easiest way to solve this is to turn A/C on

 

[ragametal]

@Davvo I checked the BIOS one more time and the only fan settings available are "Auto" or "Manual". You have to understand that this is not a regular motherboard, it is a NAS and the fact that it has a BIOS accessible to the end user is incredible by itself. However such BIOS is extremely limited.

I put the fan in "Manual" as a test while performing "Badblocks" to another drive and the difference is incredible, the drives temp dropped from 51C to 34C but the noise is unbearable.

I was searching for more opinions on the forum and found this Qnap TS251+ fan 100%, it seems that there is a linux driver for this fan. So, i may have to install SCALE just because of the fan. It would be a shame because i'm really enjoing the stability of FreeBSD of my systems. Then there is the issue of not knowing if i can replicate my main system (Core) to this SCALE system, i assume i can but i don't know for sure.

Anyway, i will experiment with scale and that driver once the Badblocks test finish which will be another 4 days or so (these are 16TB drives).

 

[Davvo]

You could skip the issue directly and buy a pwm controller like this.

 

[ragametal]

You could skip the issue directly and buy a pwm controller like this.

I was thinking about that too. I will check if i have enough space inside my chassis to install something like that, but htat will have to wait until the Badblocks test finish.

 

[Davvo]

Let us know if anything eventful happens.

 

[joeschmuck]

You could also increase airflow by doing a little case modification. I actually do this for all of my cases and it makes an easy difference.

What you need to do is buy a "wire fan protector" (do an internet search). Next you need to disassemble the NAS so you can cut the fan hole out nice and clean, looks like four small cuts and you might be able to remove the fan, place some tape over the entire hole, then use a dremel cutting wheel to make the four cuts, that is what I'd do. Make sure to file the edges smooth. Always do a nice clean professional job because rough edges will let lint/fluff/dust build up. Remount the fan and the wire fan protector mounts to the outside of the case. This procedure removes a huge airflow obstacle.

If this alone does not fix your issue then locate a high airflow fan that fits in the case. The deeper (thicker) the fan, the more airflow you will generally get but I don't know how much space you have in that case, you will need to measure it. If you have a 1" thick fan now, a 2" thick fan would move more air at the same fan RPM. There are some nice Silent Fans out there, just look at the fan specs, it matters.

Good luck and if you make any modification, share what you have done and the end result. My upper drive temp limit is 45C, normal running temps are 38C in the winter, 44C in the summer. My drives have been running for 4.5 years non-stop (for the most part) without any issues.

Also you were given some good advice, replace those hot drive with slower RPM drives. 7200 RPM drives run hotter. Also, look at your SMART data for your drives, are both hot? Is one cooler by a few degrees? You could replace the hotter drive with a slower drive, resilver, and see if that drops your overall temps.

Last thing... The drives are warrantied for 5 years and to run at up to 65C and still be covered. You could just run those drives and plan to replace them when they fail, and if they are under the warranty then just have them replaced. If they fail outside of warranty then buy new slower drives. Most 3 year warranty drives last longer than 3 years, many over 5 years. Just food for thought, not something you need to do.

 

[ragametal]

You could also increase airflow by doing a little case modification. I actually do this for all of my cases and it makes an easy difference.

What you need to do is buy a "wire fan protector" (do an internet search). Next you need to disassemble the NAS so you can cut the fan hole out nice and clean, looks like four small cuts and you might be able to remove the fan, place some tape over the entire hole, then use a dremel cutting wheel to make the four cuts, that is what I'd do. Make sure to file the edges smooth. Always do a nice clean professional job because rough edges will let lint/fluff/dust build up. Remount the fan and the wire fan protector mounts to the outside of the case. This procedure removes a huge airflow obstacle.

If this alone does not fix your issue then locate a high airflow fan that fits in the case. The deeper (thicker) the fan, the more airflow you will generally get but I don't know how much space you have in that case, you will need to measure it. If you have a 1" thick fan now, a 2" thick fan would move more air at the same fan RPM. There are some nice Silent Fans out there, just look at the fan specs, it matters.

Good luck and if you make any modification, share what you have done and the end result. My upper drive temp limit is 45C, normal running temps are 38C in the winter, 44C in the summer. My drives have been running for 4.5 years non-stop (for the most part) without any issues.

Also you were given some good advice, replace those hot drive with slower RPM drives. 7200 RPM drives run hotter. Also, look at your SMART data for your drives, are both hot? Is one cooler by a few degrees? You could replace the hotter drive with a slower drive, resilver, and see if that drops your overall temps.

Last thing... The drives are warrantied for 5 years and to run at up to 65C and still be covered. You could just run those drives and plan to replace them when they fail, and if they are under the warranty then just have them replaced. If they fail outside of warranty then buy new slower drives. Most 3 year warranty drives last longer than 3 years, many over 5 years. Just food for thought, not something you need to do.

So many good advises. I will research about replacing the fan but i don't know if i have the stomach to make a modification to the case (this NAS is still under warranty as i just bought it).

About the rotational speed of the drives, i wanted slower drives but i couldn't find them. It seems that all disks bigger than 8TB are 7200 RPM nowadays.

 

[Davvo]

So many good advises. I will research about replacing the fan but i don't know if i have the stomach to make a modification to the case (this NAS is still under warranty as i just bought it).

I'm pretty sure that changing the OS voids the warranty.

 

[ragametal]

I'm pretty sure that changing the OS voids the warranty.

Not if you don't remove or alter the disk where the original OS is installed. Truenas is installed in an NVME SSD mounted on a PCIe riser card. Then i changed the boot order in the BIOS so the system would boot from the NVME drive first. All this can be easily reverted.

 

[HoneyBadger]

I'm pretty sure that changing the OS voids the warranty.

I imagine any country with some manner of consumer protection laws (eg: Magnuson-Moss USA, Consumer Rights Act UK, Consumer Protection Act CA) would have pretty harsh words (and a hefty fine) for any company trying to void a hardware warranty if new software is installed.

*obligatory "not a lawyer"

 

[joeschmuck]

I will research about replacing the fan but i don't know if i have the stomach to make a modification to the case (this NAS is still under warranty as i just bought it).

I hear you and understand. All of my case modifications are normally on a bare case, however I do weigh the risk and have definitely voided a few warranty's but it's a risk I took and all turned out good. Maybe after your warranty expires you will look into this again.

Thinking outside the box one more time here... You could make a cardboard fan holder, maybe a 120mm or possibly 240mm fan (or similar) and tape it to the front of your NAS to force air into the front. Find the right fan that runs on 5VDC and use the USB connector to power it. Just thinking "Outside The Box". BTW, most 12VDC fans will not run off of 5VDC, they generally need about 7VDC to start it turning. And a slow turning large fan constantly pushing air across the drives will cool them down. The small internal fan just isn't doing the job for what you have. And I do use cardboard (often from a good cereal box) to make air flow diverters to ensure all the critical components have some airflow. It doesn't need to look pretty but it does need to work.

 

[ragametal]

I hear you and understand. All of my case modifications are normally on a bare case, however I do weigh the risk and have definitely voided a few warranty's but it's a risk I took and all turned out good. Maybe after your warranty expires you will look into this again.

Thinking outside the box one more time here... You could make a cardboard fan holder, maybe a 120mm or possibly 240mm fan (or similar) and tape it to the front of your NAS to force air into the front. Find the right fan that runs on 5VDC and use the USB connector to power it. Just thinking "Outside The Box". BTW, most 12VDC fans will not run off of 5VDC, they generally need about 7VDC to start it turning. And a slow turning large fan constantly pushing air across the drives will cool them down. The small internal fan just isn't doing the job for what you have. And I do use cardboard (often from a good cereal box) to make air flow diverters to ensure all the critical components have some airflow. It doesn't need to look pretty but it does need to work.

That is definitely thinking "Out of the box". I like the fact that it can be easily implemented and reverted.

Honestly, i will try with Truenas Scale and the linux driver that i found for the fan.

If that doesn't work, then i will try with a PWM controller for the fan as it has proven it can maintain the drives at low 30C when it is running at high RPMs. The idea is to lower its speed to achieve a balance between airflow and noise.

If that doesn't work, then i will try your idea.

But what is has become clear to me is that ANYTHING is a better option than to spin down the disks in TrueNAS.

That is so weird to me because i've been running a linux server for the last 10 years and i have set those disks to spindown. Those disks become active at least once a day to perform the daily backups and, so far, i have yet to loose a single drive.

Anyway, i will let you guys know as soon as i can try new things (waiting for Badblocks to finish).

 

[joeschmuck]

As for drives spinning up constantly... That is a bit subjective. The problem is when the drive spins up then it causes a large current surge to get the spindle up to speed. A well designed drive made to perform this action all the time would survive but companies cut corners or just design it to work for a few years to save a few bucks. If you are spinning up the drives once a day then that isn't too bad. Many moons ago the name of the game was to spin down and park the drive heads, that was built into many firmware packages on the drives. What we ended up with were very high values of head park/loading and high values of drives spinning up, then premature motor electronics failure. I'd say that all USB hard drives are built to survive this but 3.5" multi-platter drives, not so much.

So you could shoot for spinning down the drives as an option if you know for certain how many times a week those drives will be spinning up and if you wanted to take that risk. There is a point where this is more favorable, I just don't know what that point is for me but right now it would probably be 4 times a week. But here is the kicker, my drives run constantly and I don't use the NAS like I use to, so I use it rarely. Backing up data does happen but maybe one a week, if my main computer is powered on. I prefer to run my drives all the time just in case I need it and I don't want to wait for the drives to become ready. If you go down this path, monitor your spinup and head load cycles, make sure the data supports your expectations.

There are options for you, find the one you can live with.

 

[ragametal]

Just an update for anybody still following this thread.

I decided not to go to TrueNAS scale. Turns out that the fan driver requires to alter the TrueNAS OS in order to enable "apt" and installing packages directly on the OS. I honestly didn't feel comfortable doing that because this is a production NAS.

I tried to spindown the disks. This by itself reduced the disks temperature to low 30C and, according to S.M.A.R.T., their start-stop and load-cycles were increasing by a factor o 1 a day which is well within their specs. However, the temperature of the disks would increase to 51C under heavy load. This rapid temperature increase and then decrease concerns me so i decided not to use this option.

In the end I used the noctua NA-FC1 pwm fan controller as suggested by @Davvo . The Fans now stay in the low 40C even when they are under heavy use which is perfect for me because they experience very little temperature change and they are more than 20C below their max spec limit.

Now that my disks don't go above 42C under heavy use, i may consider putting them to sleep as well. This time to save energy (because somebody else will pay for the electricity of this system) and because the disks makes a "clunk" noise every 5 seconds which can drive anybody crazy.

Anyway, that is all i have for now.