Concept design for new NAS

[NugentS]

So I am looking for something that supports the following features:

1. Reasonably low power - this should help keep heat and noise down
2. Supports SATA Ports either
   1. 8*3.5” Hot Swap HDD/SDD
   2. Would love an NVMe as well
   3. Some room for non-hotswap SSD’s
3. Has a PCIe slot for a 10Gb NIC
4. Preferably has IPMI / Lights Out / Draccs / equivalent
5. I'd like 32-64GB RAM possible - but would start with 16 or 32
6. Smaller form factor the better - it can fit in smaller cases that way. However a case too small will probably generate a lot of noise, so happy to go to medium sized case - which may open up bigger motherboards

Note that this is kind of a longer term project

Initial, possible Kit List (ignore memory, disks and additional case fans):

• Case, Silverstone DS381
• Motherboard, Supermicro A2SDi-H-TF
• 10GB Card, Mellanox MCX311A-XCAT (Single Port SFP+ Card) PCIe x4
• PSU, Silverstone SX700-G (700W ,Modular, Gold) or similar

Initial thoughts are:

• that that is a pricey bit of kit in total.
• Not looking for 10Gb, but am looking for more than 1Gb. I have 10Gb infrastructure already, no 2.5gb (yuk)
• I am kinda assuming that cables from the 2 min-SAS HD ports can plug directly into the drive cages
• I think I would need to put a fan on top of that CPU heatsink - just to move air
• UK Based (if relevant)

 

[danb35]

Other options for the 10Gb/sec NIC--which might be preferred by our resident grinch--would be a Chelsio T420, Intel X520, or Solarflare. I'm not sure what current availability for any of them is, but likely worth investigating.

 

[Whattteva]

So I am looking for something that supports the following features:

1. Reasonably low power - this should help keep heat and noise down
2. Supports SATA Ports either
   1. 8*3.5” Hot Swap HDD/SDD
   2. Would love an NVMe as well
   3. Some room for non-hotswap SSD’s
3. Has a PCIe slot for a 10Gb NIC
4. Preferably has IPMI / Lights Out / Draccs / equivalent
5. I'd like 32-64GB RAM possible - but would start with 16 or 32
6. Smaller form factor the better - it can fit in smaller cases that way. However a case too small will probably generate a lot of noise, so happy to go to medium sized case - which may open up bigger motherboards

You want low power/noise but with 8x hotswap + possibly 2 or more non-hotswap disks (10+ total) and IPMI...
Requirement 1 is basically in direct contradiction with the rest of the points. You're going to have a hard time finding such system. Good luck though. I mean at this point, why stop there? May as well pop in a GPU for good measure, you may need it for transcoding or even passthrough gaming after all.

 

[Davvo]

Skip 2.5 and go 10. You already have the network.

The motherboard you choose is great... And equally priced. You might save something if you let go of the M2 slots and use a PCIE card instead.

With that motherboard you will also need and adapter like this, apparently; check if your PSU of choice has one.

 

[NugentS]

1. They are all / mostly PCIe x8 boards - and the board I am currently looking has a x4 slot. At the moment my other options are:
Aquantia - BaseT or SFP+
Intel X550 - BaseT only that I have found

2. The TS-853A I currently have is an 8 bay unit. Its sufficiently quiet that I keep it in my front room. Yes I can hear it, but not enough to bother me. The proposed unit would go under the stairs in a cupboard so I have a bit more leeway. GPU not required. Gaming not required. Transcoding not required. This is a backup NAS only.

3. I need the PCIe for the 10Gb card. The M.2 is a nice to have, but not compulsory.

 

[Etorix]

So I am looking for something that supports the following features:

1. Reasonably low power - this should help keep heat and noise down
2. Supports SATA Ports either
   1. 8*3.5” Hot Swap HDD/SDD
   2. Would love an NVMe as well
   3. Some room for non-hotswap SSD’s

A pointed out by @Whattteva , "small", "8+ 3.5" spinners" and "quiet" do not fit together. You need to think hard about the number of drives, noise requirements (less drives?), find a suitable case and only then think about possible motherboards.

Initial, possible Kit List (ignore memory, disks and additional case fans):

• Case, Silverstone DS381

I thoroughly HATE this case. Even with the mandatory home-made airflow guides it cannot cool 3.5" HDDs without screaming high pressure fans. I managed to find an acceptable use for mine with 2.5" SSDs but promised that whenever I have to do any maintenance on its cramped innards will be when the NAS is dismantled, rebuild elsewhere and the DS-380 thrown to the bin where it belongs.

• Motherboard, Supermicro A2SDi-H-TF
• 10GB Card, Mellanox MCX311A-XCAT (Single Port SFP+ Card) PCIe x4

Why adding a NIC, and a non-recommended one at that, when your pick of motherboard already provides 10 GbE? Get a 10GBase-T transceiver, use the built-in X522 and save the PCIe slot.
[NB. The x4 PCIe slot is open: It takes x8 cards!]

Initial thoughts are:

• that that is a pricey bit of kit in total.

Mini-ITX is the killer here. Going up to Flex/Micro-ATX would allow many more options and some savings. (Going down to 6 drives with X10SDV rev.2 in a Fractal Design Node 304 is another possible road.)

• Not looking for 10Gb, but am looking for more than 1Gb. I have 10Gb infrastructure already, no 2.5gb (yuk)

"More than 1 GbE" is 10 GbE, especially if "the infrastructure is already in place", isn't it?

• I am kinda assuming that cables from the 2 min-SAS HD ports can plug directly into the drive cages

Only part of your current plan which works flawlessly…

• I think I would need to put a fan on top of that CPU heatsink - just to move air

Correct.

 

[Davvo]

Aquantia - BaseT or SFP+

Not a good choice.

Fractal's Node 804 is a great case that can hold up to 10 3.5'' and 2 2.5'', is somehow small, fits normal sized PSU and Micro-ATX boards. Airflow could be better, but it's not bad.

 

[NugentS]

OK -
First - Oops - I got confused with motherboards (I have been looking at a lot). However its a 10GbBaseT - not my preferred SFP+. The fact that the slot is open means that (if the clearance is available I can use a 10Gb SFP+ card - and I have several available in the box of spares)
------------------------
"I thoroughly HATE this case. Even with the mandatory home-made airflow guides it cannot cool 3.5" HDDs without screaming high pressure fans. I managed to find an acceptable use for mine with 2.5" SSDs but promised that whenever I have to do any maintenance on its cramped innards will be when the NAS is dismantled, rebuild elsewhere and the DS-380 thrown to the bin where it belongs"

Just the sort of feedback I was looking for. Mind you - you are referrimg to a CS-380 (I think), and not the even more expensive: CS-381 which may or may not have solved some of the issues you mention. I think the airflow is better, but the hot swap bays may or may not be as bad.

I have already rejected the DS-380(b) as just too fiddly and too many report of atrocious cooling. But what about the CS-380 or my currently suggested DS-381
----------------------
Fractal Node 804 - its something I have looked at - but no hot swap. I really like hot swap bays. Also, if I am ditching the hotswap bays then I would rather get a case that doesn't require me to be proctologist to work on it

If however I ditch the hot swap requirement then some other options might be the Fractal Node 804 (previously commented on), or a mid-tower of some kind like:

• https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07LBXP8KZ?linkCode=gs2&tag=gchblog-21
• https://www.amazon.co.uk/SilverStone-SST-CS380-V2-Computer-Hot-Swap/dp/B07TVTYCTV/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=SilverStone+Technology+SST-CS380B-USA+DIY+ATX+NAS/Server+Storage+Computer+Case+with+8+Front+Hot+Swap+Cases+CS380B-USA+Cases&linkCode=gs3&qid=1690373939&sr=8-1 (has hot swap)
• https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00Q2Z11QE?linkCode=gs2&tag=gchblog-21&th=1

 

[Etorix]

I do refer to the mini-ITX DS380, not to the CS380 (apparently same terrible HDD cage as the DS) or CS381. Despite the minor numerical change, the latter appears to be completely different, which can only be a good thing… but a SFX power supply in a micro-ATX 30-liter case is a design oddity which, I fear, may foretell of other design flaws.
Beside, from my experience with a few subjects however, all (consumer?) Silverstone cases appear to suffer from screwitis, an unpleasant design disease characterised by the use of way too many and way too small screws.

 

[NugentS]

So putting some numbers together, and ditching the hot swap requirement - but using a case that allows access to the drives individually.

Case	Antec P101S	1​	£113.55​	£113.55​
Mobo	SMC A2SDi-H-TF	1​	£612.70​	£612.70​
Memory	16GB PC4-19200T-R (DDR4-2400MHz, 2RX8) (Used)	2​	£18.00​	£36.00​
PSU	650W Seasonic Focus PX-650	1​	£149.99​	£149.99​
Cable	Molex to 4 pin	1​	£5.89​	£5.89​
Cable	MiniSAS HD to SATA	2​	£10.62​	£21.24​
Extra Fans	TBD			£0.00​
				£939.37​

Extra fans will be minimal I think. 1 for the CPU and thats it.
The front fans should push air through / over the drives then across the CPU and out the back. I don't think anything extra is required.

AND I can put a hot swap bay in the 5.25" optical bay which I might do

The other case option seems to be the Fractal Design R5 which is a tiny bit smaller and essentially the same price and could take 2 hot swaps. The R5 could take extra fans (quite a lot of them, if needed) that the Antec doesn't seem to cater for. Both cases are sound deadened.

 

[Whattteva]

Curious, is hot swap really important to you? I'd imagine most home users don't really need that. I've built three TrueNAS systems over the last 15 years and the number of times I've had to actually get in there and swap the drives after it was built was... 2-3 times (both for drive failures) across all 3 systems. They are mostly a set-and-forget deal.

 

[Davvo]

It's like "first-world problems": once you taste the comfort of hotswap you can't do without it.

 

[ChrisRJ]

The proposed unit would go under the stairs in a cupboard ...

So the machine gets to be named "harry" ?

 

[ChrisRJ]

Curious, is hot swap really important to you? I'd imagine most home users don't really need that. I've built three TrueNAS systems over the last 15 years and the number of times I've had to actually get in there and swap the drives after it was built was... 2-3 times (both for drive failures) across all 3 systems. They are mostly a set-and-forget deal.

Well, from where I stand you can consider yourself lucky. I have had at least 7 changes over the last 10 years, 4 of those in the last 2 years. And while that is not the end of the world, hot-swap will also be on my list for the next build. But I agree with @Davvo that it is a first world-problem.

 

[NugentS]

I think you may just have named it. Probably HarryNAS - or maybe HairyNAS after Hagrid (and the dust it will collect in its filters)

 

[Etorix]

No tower case can completely mute the buzz of 8 spinning drives.
The retail package A2SDi-H-TF-O includes two MiniSAS-HD (SFF-8643) to 4*SATA breakout cables, and I don't know what this "Molex to 4 pin cable" is intended for (the board is fully powered either by the regular 24-pin ATX power or by 12 V DC on the square 4-pin connector; the Molex plug is intended to power one or two SATA drives from the board with optional breakout cables such as CBL-SAST-1034, for use in E300 chassis).

Skip the cables and get more RDIMM instead.

 

[NugentS]

Already have 64GB in a drawer which is more than enough (not for ZFS obviously, but for my UseCase - this is backup only)
I don't expect silence - I just don't want a hovercraft disturbing my sleep. The TS853A makes a noise - but is OK (I just turn the TV up a bit)

My biggest worry atm is how to get enough power connectors to the 12 bays around the case. PSU's aren't really set up for that many drives so splitters etc will be required

 

[Whattteva]

Well, from where I stand you can consider yourself lucky. I have had at least 7 changes over the last 10 years, 4 of those in the last 2 years. And while that is not the end of the world, hot-swap will also be on my list for the next build. But I agree with @Davvo that it is a first world-problem.

Even in your case, 7 changes in 10 years is an average of less than once/year. Even in the case of 4 in the last 2 years, you're talking 4 days out of 730 days in the 2-year span.. and Those 4 days aren't even entire days. It is totally first-world problem, lol. In any case, you should open up your chassis and clean out all the dust build-up every once in a while anyway.

 

[NugentS]

With a hot swap bay I can just add a new drive without the inconveniance of taking down the NAS, run a replace and then in my own time transfer the drive to the non hot swap bays with down time. This seems to be to be a fair compromise

 

[NugentS]

So - can anyone think of any major issues with this build before I start seriously searching for parts.
Going to go with the Fractal Design - that way I can add fans above the hotswap bays, so don't worry about cooking them