Help finding a motherboard for new build

[phaelax]

I'm building a new setup to use truenas. While I know ECC isn't "required", I'd much prefer to stick with it as a requirement. Also want to stick with mini-itx as I prefer to have my box fit on a bookshelf. And lastly, would like to use an Intel chip as I've read its the better choice if I wish to do transcoding with the integrated gpu as the Ryzen lacks the necessary instruction set (at least as I understand it). Problem I'm having is I can't seem to find an intel mini-itx board that supports ECC, not unless it has an integrated cpu already. There's also a few xeon ones out there. If I'm wrong, then I have found a decent AMD board I could use with a ryzen 5600G. The ECC/mini-itx combination is what's really limiting what I've been able to find.
Primary function will be as as file and media server. But I may end up using it as an NVR as well.

So any recommendations on motherboards?

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

Your best option is c252/c256 with respective Xeon (11th Gen) with iGPU.

12th Gen Intel with ECC, e.g. 12500, only with W680 Mainboard, which is barely available

AM4 with ECC is cheapest, but iGPU is less good for transcoding.

Nice ITX Case: Jonsbo N1

 

[Etorix]

Also look for C246 boards with Core i3-9xxx (ECC capable!) / Xeon E-2100/2200 while some are still available.

Mainboards Intel Xeon mit Formfaktor: Mini-ITX, Chipsatz: C246 Preisvergleich Geizhals Deutschland

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Mainboards Intel Xeon mit Formfaktor: Mini-ITX, Chipsatz: C246

geizhals.de

The ECC/mini-itx combination is what's really limiting what I've been able to find.

You said it… Most server-grade boards with socketed CPU are at least micro-ATX. Mini-ITX is for Xeon-D, and Supermicro X10SDV boards make lovely little NAS if one can find one second-hand for a reasonable price—the PCIe slot could be used for a transcoding GPU if no HBA is needed.

Consider your requirements and, whatever you pick, make sure the (i)GPU is actually supported for Plex transcoding in TrueNAS.

 

[phaelax]

Thanks for the assist fellas. I found the ASRock C246 WSI which supports an i5-9500. It says the board supports 8 sata ports but half of those rely on an oculink cable which apparently isn't included. No IPMI but it's not a big concern of mine. Only $80 for 2x8GB ram, should be plenty. I'm not sure it's worth spending $240 for the 2x16GB. I might use docker in the future, but nothing planned for now.

The Jonsbo N1 is actually my top choice at the moment. My main desktop is a jonsbo U1. But I think if I can keep the power supply external I can make (former machinist/welder) a much smaller case closer in size to my qnap. Already started some rough designs, but it might just come down to whether or not I want to take the time and effort for it.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

Does the i5 support ECC on C246? Max is i3 9300 afaik

 

[Etorix]

C246: Core i3 and Xeon E support ECC; no ECC with Core i5-i9.
If the NAS is just serving files through SMB, you need few cores with high frequency: Get an i3.

 

[phaelax]

Thanks for pointing that out. I know Intel supported ECC on i5 but I guess it wasn't until later generations.
I might just go with the 9100 as there's a huge price jump to the 9300 and I don't think I'll notice a difference in the minor performance increase for the extra $100. I could probably find a used one for cheap, but I'm always leery of used pc parts.

My initial plan was to back up my current qnap and used the 4 drives from that; 4TB WD red. But after looking up prices, they're a lot cheaper than I remember. The 6TB is about $100 so I may just get all new drives and keep the qnap as a backup. I just hope truenas is more stable and has better security than the prebuilt boxes I've used over the years.

 

[Etorix]

Thanks for pointing that out. I know Intel supported ECC on i5 but I guess it wasn't until later generations.

ECC with i5-i9 is only possible with Alder Lake, which has no corresponding Xeon W-1000 / E-2000.
Which is a 180° turn from the previous Comet / Rocket Lake generations where no Core CPU supported ECC: One had to pay the "Xeon tax".

I might just go with the 9100 as there's a huge price jump to the 9300 and I don't think I'll notice a difference in the minor performance increase for the extra $100.

Indeed.

My initial plan was to back up my current qnap and used the 4 drives from that; 4TB WD red. But after looking up prices, they're a lot cheaper than I remember. The 6TB is about $100 so I may just get all new drives and keep the qnap as a backup. I just hope truenas is more stable and has better security than the prebuilt boxes I've used over the years.

Just make sure the drives are not SMR. TrueNAS should meet expectations here—and, at the very least, ZFS with regular snapshots is pretty much immune to ransomware attacks.

 

[phaelax]

Just make sure the drives are not SMR.

Yea I noticed that after I posted, the ones I saw were SMR. It's about $20 extra for the CMR (wd red plus). Ransomware is one of my big fears, and one of the reason I want to ditch qnap after mine got hit due to a firmware vulnerability last year. I recovered about half the data from older backups, didn't have snapshots setup on it back then because I don't think it supported them when I first bought it. (it does snapshots now)

 

[phaelax]

Alright, I've done a complete 180 flip on this build. Due to mini-itx nas cases just not being as small as I wanted I designed my own. After making a model, it wasn't a whole lot smaller than the jonsbo, and certainly not small enough for what I'd like. Cleaning out my office, I found an old custom case (atx mid-tower) I built years ago that resembles a mid-century modern furniture piece that I never used. If I use this, then I can consider ATX boards and fit a dedicated GPU. The benefit of a separate gpu is I can now look at AMD, which is a lot easier than finding intel boards when ECC is my requirement.

 

[Davvo]

Before switching to AMD, did you consider supermicro boards? They can be easily found used.

 

[Etorix]

I built years ago that resembles a mid-century modern furniture piece

You're telling too much or not enough here… Pictures would be on order—just out of curiosity.

If I use this, then I can consider ATX boards and fit a dedicated GPU. The benefit of a separate gpu is I can now look at AMD, which is a lot easier than finding intel boards when ECC is my requirement.

If you now take up to ATX, there are lots of server-grade C246 boards, typically micro-ATX, which can do what you want: ECC + socketed CPU.

 

[phaelax]

I recall seeing a few supermicro boards and they were rather expensive. I prefer buying new, I have a distrust of used computer parts.
A Ryzen 5600 looked like a good bang for the buck. I have a gtx 660 laying around and a box full of quadros (forget what model). Would there be any reason not to consider AMD?

The main reason for considering the C246 board was to support a cpu that has the UHD630 graphics and ECC support because my initial idea wouldn't leave room for a dedicated GPU. Ignoring integrated graphics now, all I need is ECC support. Intel still limits my cpu selection quite a bit, and the newest boards that support modern intel chips with ECC aren't very easy to find. AMD supports ECC on just about everything leaving a lot more motherboard options. And after researching some of the things I want to run on the NAS, it looks like I'll be using Scale on this build as well. (still learning all about what it is)

Here's a picture of the case I did about 4-5 years ago. I'll have to make a new front piece, I think I lost it when I moved. And just for the sake of it, a wireless phone charger I made last night. Case was based on a picture I found online a long time ago. I'd get a hot swap backplate if I could find a decent one.

*edit*
I may rethink the AMD thing, ECC compatibility with AMD is confusing as heck. One thing says all Ryzens support ECC with x570, other things say chipset is irrelevant but you need a "pro" cpu.

 

[Etorix]

Lovely case! Thanks for sharing a picture.

The situation with ECC on Ryzen is "simple": ECC is theoretically supported but no board is officially certified to the same standards as Intel server boards. Your best bet would be one AsRockRack Ryzen server boards (X470/X570/B550D4U), which are likely just as expensive as a Supermicro X11SCH. With ECC on consumer Ryzen boards you're testing your luck as to whether it works or not…
If the NAS is only required to serve files and transcode videos with Plex, but not to host a lot of further services/VMs, a Core i3-9100 on a C246 board is all you need. New C246 boards may be hard to get but guarantee proper ECC support; i3-9xxx should be cheap. AMD is the exact opposite: Ryzen boards and CPU are plenty, but ECC is a question mark; Ryzen Pro CPUs are hard to get and server Ryzen boards are at least as expensive as C246. Your call.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

I went the Asrock Rack path with Ryzen 2700x and ECC.

If Transcoding is a priority, i3 9100 with c246 is your cheapest bet, as the next best option are already newer XEON E2xxx line

Ryzen APU with iGPU: Pro needed, e.g. 4650G Pro, or 5750G Pro.
Ryzen CPU: all CPUs, but you should have a Mainboard with VGA, or discrete GPU

 

[Davvo]

Supermicro boards are server-grade, which means that you get a robust, no-nonsense motherboard that will easily last 10 years.
Buying a used one is a safe choice, a lot of people here did it and are satisfied (I am one of them), so you should be at ease from that point of view.

 

[phaelax]

While the 5500 is a lot cheaper with similar performance of a 5600, reports from folks have had sketchy results at best with finding proper ECC support. I was able to confirm the 5600 on an Asus TUF motherboard ($157) B550 working with ECC. Though the cpu is more expensive than the i3 I looked at, the motherboard is a lot cheaper, making the overall package cheaper with AMD but having a CPU with almost 3x the benchmark score.

Overall, my build would be $50 cheaper with AMD vs the Intel build.

 

[Davvo]

I was able to confirm the 5600 on an Asus TUF motherboard ($157) B550 working with ECC.

How?
Anyway, please take note that the only AMD platforms that support ECC are Epyc and Threadripper. Ryzen CPUs are out.
The ECC function is very often not validated for AMD AM4 (outside of their PRO series) and it's predecessors, it's just that the feature isn't disabled.

Asus states the following:

[Motherboard] List of AMD Ryzen™ Processors with support for ECC memory | Official Support | ASUS Global

 

[ChrisRJ]

I was able to confirm the 5600 on an Asus TUF motherboard ($157) B550 working with ECC.

Please understand that "working with ECC" only means that the system will boot and run. It does not necessarily mean that the protective features of ECC will actually be used.

In general, if you feel that you need ECC, this means that you have a need for protecting your data. In other words, you are risk averse in this context. If so, it does not make any sense to choose an approach that is exotic for the context (i.e. Ryzen) over something that is battle-hardened from hundreds or even thousands of enterprise deployments. I am not saying that Ryzen is a bad product or platform. Neither that it cannot work well for your intended purpose. But there is considerably less experience with that platform for TrueNAS, so the outcome is pretty much unknown.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

Is there any way to test ECC functionality properly?
I have my initial Ryzen Build running with Windows AND TrueNAS