Clustering without TrueCommand - it's real?

[Aku]

Hi all!

I have two questions:
- Possible to make a DIY cluster without TrueCommand?
- Server with TrueCommand installed mandatory for further operation of cluster created with it, or it's needed only for initial configuration?

 

[morganL]

Hi all!

I have two questions:
- Possible to make a DIY cluster without TrueCommand?
- Server with TrueCommand installed mandatory for further operation of cluster created with it, or it's needed only for initial configuration?

If you naturally speak REST APIs... you don't need TrueCommand.
If you want a webUI, then TrueCommand is essential.

 

[Samuel Tai]

In theory, it's possible to create a cluster with API calls, which is what TrueCommand does behind the scenes. The real question is why would you want to? TrueCommand is free for the first 50 spindles, and nominal cost for spindles beyond that. Plus, the TrueCommand UI helps protect you against cluster oopses.

 

[Aku]

If you naturally speak REST APIs... you don't need TrueCommand.
If you want a webUI, then TrueCommand is essential.

I've already explored the REST API and tested basic actions like creating a user, getting their status, etc. So if I understand the correct sequence, then I think I can reproduce it using REST API.

 

[Aku]

In theory, it's possible to create a cluster with API calls, which is what TrueCommand does behind the scenes. The real question is why would you want to? TrueCommand is free for the first 50 spindles, and nominal cost for spindles beyond that. Plus, the TrueCommand UI helps protect you against cluster oopses.

So it is needed ONLY for creation, I do not need to always keep it on?

 

[Samuel Tai]

So it is needed ONLY for creation, I do not need to always keep it on?

No, TrueCommand is helpful for managing the cluster nodes themselves, beyond just the bricks. You could manage your nodes individually, but why not make it easier on yourself?

 

[morganL]

So it is needed ONLY for creation, I do not need to always keep it on?

You use the word "need"... the answer is TC is not required

If you used the word "recommend".... the answer is TC makes everything more reliable.

With TrueNAS, we provide open APIs and allow people to build their own tools. We just can't support those home-grown approaches easily.

 

[NickF]

This seems like an odd question. If you want to manage a cluster of servers with ZFS and Gluster and do it all manually, then why not do it on Proxmox or Ubuntu? The whole point of the ecosystem here is to make these manual tasks simple.

 

[Aku]

I understand that this is a useful tool. But I'm just trying to understand how much cluster created in it depends on it (as, for example, on a service or a demon). Samuel Tai said no, morganL said yes. Where is truth here?

Let's use an example, perhaps I formulated question incorrectly: if I install TrueCommand, create a cluster of three TrueNAS SCALE nodes in it and then remove TrueCommand, will claster continue to work or will it "fall apart"?

 

[Aku]

This seems like an odd question. If you want to manage a cluster of servers with ZFS and Gluster and do it all manually, then why not do it on Proxmox or Ubuntu? The whole point of the ecosystem here is to make these manual tasks simple.

That's right, it's about simplicity. And yes, I can use Proxmox with ZFS disks (possibly with Gluster as well, I haven't worked with that yet). But no product will satisfy needs by 100%, there will always be something missing. For example, I really miss scheduler like "at" in TrueNAS (after all, it is impossible to set a specific date in "cron", including year, such as 04/21/2024).

 

[sretalla]

I understand that this is a useful tool. But I'm just trying to understand how much cluster created in it depends on it (as, for example, on a service or a demon). Samuel Tai said no, morganL said yes. Where is truth here?

They both said yes. Samuel added that you don't get monitoring without TrueCommand, which Morgan didn't comment on.

if I install TrueCommand, create a cluster of three TrueNAS SCALE nodes in it and then remove TrueCommand, will claster continue to work or will it "fall apart"?

It will continue to work, without monitoring or a GUI to control it.

 

[Aku]

They both said yes. Samuel added that you don't get monitoring without TrueCommand, which Morgan didn't comment on.


It will continue to work, without monitoring or a GUI to control it.

So answer is "no longer needed". Thank you.

 

[Davvo]

So answer is "no longer needed".

You likely want to have it in order to monitor if everything is properly working.

 

[Aku]

You likely want to have it in order to monitor if everything is properly working.

Yes, but most importantly, if TrueCommand itself is offline, then this will not affect operation of cluster. And that's exactly what I was trying to find out.

I was not trying to avoid using it, I was trying to understand its role in operation of cluster it created. And I realized that its role in further work of cluster is zero (just like a hammer after hammering a nail).

 

[sretalla]

I realized that its role in further work of cluster is zero (just like a hammer after hammering a nail).

If the hammer comes back occasionally and re-checks that the nails aren't coming out... maybe giving them a little tap if they are... that analogy is OK.

To be absolutely clear, if you set up a cluster with TrueCommand and then shut down TrueCommand, the cluster continues to work (until something goes wrong... if it does).

 

[sretalla]

Perhaps it helps to think of TrueCommand as 2 tools:

A config assistant, to help with setup of some clustering services

A monitoring, alerting and management tool to ensure things run smoothly and alert if things go wrong.

 

[Aku]

Perhaps it helps to think of TrueCommand as 2 tools:

A config assistant, to help with setup of some clustering services

A monitoring, alerting and management tool to ensure things run smoothly and alert if things go wrong.

Thanks for detailed explanations.

 

[NickF]

That's right, it's about simplicity. And yes, I can use Proxmox with ZFS disks (possibly with Gluster as well, I haven't worked with that yet). But no product will satisfy needs by 100%, there will always be something missing. For example, I really miss scheduler like "at" in TrueNAS (after all, it is impossible to set a specific date in "cron", including year, such as 04/21/2024).

Building a Proxmox VE Lab Part 2 Deploying

In Building a Proxmox VE Lab Part 2 we deploy a small Proxmox VE hyper-converged solution using KVM virtualization and ZFS-backed Gluster storage

www.servethehome.com

 

[Aku]

Building a Proxmox VE Lab Part 2 Deploying

In Building a Proxmox VE Lab Part 2 we deploy a small Proxmox VE hyper-converged solution using KVM virtualization and ZFS-backed Gluster storage

www.servethehome.com

If I understand correctly, we are making a cluster on Proxmox, and TrueNAS needs to be installed on a virtual machine, to which to connect disks created using Gluster?

 

[NickF]

If I understand correctly, we are making a cluster on Proxmox, and TrueNAS needs to be installed on a virtual machine, to which to connect disks created using Gluster?

No, because you wanted to do everything manually, thats how you make a cluster in Proxmox, manually.