SOLVED Building a home NAS and 2022 shortages - Hardware advice needed

[jgreco]

8 years after the appearance of this format, Fractal Design still hasn't adapted its cases?
At this price, it's a bit too much. I can't even find the adapters on the website...

The positioning of screws on 3.5" drives has always been a bit inconsistent. Early 3.5" FH drives such as the Seagate Barracuda ST12550N had side mount screws near the front and back (omitting the center), which seemed to make sense. The positioning of that bottom pair of screws in the platter region was always idiotic, as it placed an artificial limit on the platter size. Bottom mount trays on some disk towers that we bought mid 1990's have slots cut to accommodate screws in multiple positions, but offhand I don't see many examples of ones that don't use the "conventional" design pictured above.

 

[MrGuvernment]

It is amazing how something that has been in place for so many years, still fails to make it into products, all so companies can save some pennies not to drill 2 more holes. I mean, I can understand on the consumer case side, who is using 3.5" drives right! everyone is using SSD's and NVMe drives now right...

My QNAP has bottom mount location for either style...so good there. But when i got my 5.25 to 3.5 converter for my TrueNAS Build, went to put my 6TB Seagate drives in and noticed the hole issue....good thing they did work fine in the include drive bay.

 

[jgreco]

pennies not to drill 2 more holes.

It's not that. The issue here is that the location of the "moved" holes was previously within the area of the drive casing where the platters are. This forces the diameter of the platters to be less than it might be if only you moved the holes elsewhere.

If you look at the drive on the right, you will notice that the moved screws are outside of the platter well (the round part). However, the drive on the left, the screws intrude a bit on the platter well (you have to be able to visualize where that circle is though).

 

[joeschmuck]

Fractal Design still hasn't adapted its cases?

But as one posting said, if you reach out to Fractal, they will send you new trays for free. But you can hope the new kits come with the new trays.

As for the mounting holes to use the bottom drive mounting holes, that is an easy fix with a punch and a drill bit. But you should make that modification before you put the system together and make sure all the metal flakes are removed.

 

[Etorix]

What matters is actually the middle side hole, not the bottom hole. And, no, the case does not ship with adapters. I didn't even know these existed.

Another point to consider, if @Torrone wants a quiet build, is that the Node 804 is not designed for that: The meshed top is good for cooling but lets the noise out—and 6-8 spinning drives are not "quiet".

 

[Torrone]

The meshed top is good for cooling but lets the noise out—and 6-8 spinning drives are not "quiet".

Good to know.
Is a top like the one on your Silverstone case, with smaller opening, is quieter?

On Reddit, some are happy with the Fractal Design Define R5 or Define R6 for their NAS. But they are big cases...

 

[Etorix]

The Silverstone DS-380 is a nightmare to work with. I have not discarded mine because I eventually decided to use it with SSDs; I assessed it would NOT be able to keep 3.5" HDDs at acceptable temperatures at an acceptable noise level.

The fundamental issue with the concept of "quiet NAS" is that spinning drives make noise, and the more drives the higher the noise. There's no way around that, though a small number of drives in a case that is as closed as possible (while still providing cooling…) may be an acceptable background noise.
"Small" and "acceptable" are relative and subjective terms. My own personal limit for "acceptable" is at 6 drives in a Node 304 (your initial pick, which has the drawback of being mini-ITX and thus restrictive with respect to motherboard choice) but that's already audible drive noise, and beyond what my partner found "acceptable". YMMV.

(In case you wonder, my Node 304 and 804 secondary and backup NAS are in a remote part of the house.)

 

[jgreco]

On Reddit, some are happy with the Fractal Design Define R5 or Define R6 for their NAS. But they are big cases...

Big cases can be a win. 120MM fans are the way to go for low noise builds, and when coupled with some tuning of the BMC can become very quiet.

We had a customer who wanted a quiet hypervisor for a doctor's office, and a full tower case (unfortunately no longer available) was the ticket. By using lots of fans and keeping the RPM as low as possible, airflow was assured that was barely noticeable, but if things got warm for some reason, it would kick up a notch and still be cool. The FreeNAS VM hard disks were mounted in HH 5.25" bays, which meant there was free airflow on all sides of the drives, optimal for cooling.

You can optionally toss in sound dampening material to further reduce noise.

 

[joeschmuck]

and 6-8 spinning drives are not "quiet"

That depends on the drives. My six WD Reds (2TB, 5400 RPM) from years back were always quiet, and still are surprisingly. I've had my four HGST (6TB, 7200 RPM) drives for almost years now and they are quiet as well, well the spinning motors that is. The HGST's now have noticeable armature movement noise with the side panel removed, but they were almost silent when I installed them. They were mounted in my High Airflow Case, lot's of breathing holes for sound to escape. The only fan noise is when I power up the machine and the CPU fan hits high speed for a few seconds and then drops to low speed and is quiet once again. But then again "quiet" is subjective to the individual as well. Someone might have sensitive hearing.

I would not place a server in a bedroom but in a room where there are routine noises, that is fine in my opinion.

Now getting back to longevity... You want to keep the internal components cool as well and I'd recommend a high airflow case. Unfortunately you want everything but you will need to compromise I suspect. And how big is too big of a case? Is a few inches/cm more going to be a deal breaker? A larger case can hold larger fans which turn slower to move the same volume of air, which equals less noise. I have a full sized thick metal case, love it. I have two 120mm intake air fans and the power supply exhaust fan and the extra air escapes through the vent holes. Things are quiet and I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[Torrone]

Big cases can be a win. 120MM fans are the way to go for low noise builds, and when coupled with some tuning of the BMC can become very quiet.

Yes, it's not that big compared to node 804, but with the difference in form factor, I need to figure out how to fit it into the space I have.

Unfortunately you want everything but you will need to compromise I suspect. And how big is too big of a case?

As you can see, I start this topic withe a node 304 and now I am considering an Define R6 case
There are a lot of post about the R6 on the forum, like this one. I'm reading them to make up my mind

 

[MrGuvernment]

It's not that. The issue here is that the location of the "moved" holes was previously within the area of the drive casing where the platters are. This forces the diameter of the platters to be less than it might be if only you moved the holes elsewhere.



If you look at the drive on the right, you will notice that the moved screws are outside of the platter well (the round part). However, the drive on the left, the screws intrude a bit on the platter well (you have to be able to visualize where that circle is though).

Ya, sorry wrong wording, more the case maker side for them not adjusting by now to this new format

 

[Whattteva]

Big cases can be a win. 120MM fans are the way to go for low noise builds, and when coupled with some tuning of the BMC can become very quiet.

Or even 140mm fans.

 

[Etorix]

Yes, it's not that big compared to node 804, but with the difference in form factor, I need to figure out how to fit it into the space I have.

A "studio" in Paris maybe? Be very, very cautious about the number of spinning drives if you have to live within 2 m of your NAS…

As you can see, I start this topic withe a node 304 and now I am considering an Define R6 case
There are a lot of post about the R6 on the forum, like this one. I'm reading them to make up my mind

If you're considering a Define R, have a look at the Nanoxia Deep Silence 8 Pro instead. Cheaper German knock-off of the elegant Swedish design. Comes in black only, with non-reversible and distinctly plastic front and fans in ugly "Alien green" colour (which one fortunately does not see once the build is done). But with tool-less trays already installed for storage use, which is much better (not to mention a whole lot cheaper) than converting a Define to "storage layout", buying extra trays, tediously screwing drives to the trays and fiddling to fit the trays in place.
(I've sprayed a few posts here about my experience with both cases whenever someone mentioned a Define. I generally like Fractal Design cases as desktop/workstations but NOT for holding drives.)

 

[joeschmuck]

The Define R6 looks like a very nice case. It is not what I'd consider a small case but it's likely the more appropriate case for six hard drives. It comes with three 140mm fans installed, these should run slowly and thus quiet. The two fans at the front will ensure good airflow across the hard drives. The only downside to these cases are their costs. But that is just me. I don't think a piece of steel should cost as much as a motherboard.

If you're considering a Define R, have a look at the Nanoxia Deep Silence 8 Pro instead.

I took a quick look at the case, very pretty. Definitely something I would consider if I were building the NAS from scratch.

 

[Davvo]

My system is under the desk in my bedroom, which is one meter from the end of my bed.
I have a pair of 5900 RPM Ironwolf in mirror, have moved the dataset on the boot pool (single SSD) and the usage is pretty low, basically backup of media files as well as a 24/7 online server in a VM for personal use.
I needed to tune the IPMI for the fans, and the rig now is basically silent. Very, very quiet.
My case is the Itek's EVOKE (mini ITX that can fit mATX boards) with lot of openings for ventilation (and as such ways for the noise to exit).

Now, I don't know if it's because of the low usage, the fact that I only have 2 spinners or that they are 5900 RPM ones, but it's really quiet.
Just wanted to share my (limited) experience since we are talking about HDD noise: based on such, I don't think that a more "open" case (ie a mesh one) is a bad choice is one wants a quiet system.
Obliviously if we start to put in server-grade screamers or HBAs that require a substantial ventilation it's a completely different thing.

 

[Torrone]

A "studio" in Paris maybe? Be very, very cautious about the number of spinning drives if you have to live within 2 m of your NAS…

At one time yes, not anymore, but I still need to find a place in the living room of my 2 room apartment.

If you're considering a Define R, have a look at the Nanoxia Deep Silence 8 Pro instead.

Yes, I came across your posts while looking for feedback on the R6 on the forum!

Unfortunately, it is currently more expensive than the R6 in France. It is much cheaper in Germany or Austria, I have to see if a seller makes cheap shipments.
The Nanoxia DS8P is becoming my first choice for the moment.

 

[Etorix]

Now, I don't know if it's because of the low usage, the fact that I only have 2 spinners or that they are 5900 RPM ones, but it's really quiet.
Just wanted to share my (limited) experience since we are talking about HDD noise: based on such, I don't think that a more "open" case (ie a mesh one) is a bad choice is one wants a quiet system.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I'd say that the number of drives is definitely an important factor: Noise does add up (+ 3 dB(A) for each doubling of the drives). In support of closed cases, closing the front door of a drive-loaded Define/Deep Silence makes an obvious difference for noise (at the cost of a few extra °C).
The (old) 5900 rpm drives certainly help as well. But all recent NAS-grade drives are now 7200 rpm (though WD castrate some by firmware to be sold as "5400 rpm-class" whatever that is supposed to mean…).

Obliviously if we start to put in server-grade screamers or HBAs that require a substantial ventilation it's a completely different thing.

HBA or 10 GbE NICs require some airflow in their direction, not necessarily heavy ventilation.

 

[MrGuvernment]

If you want to really spend money on a case, upto 16SSD and 8 HDDs.. heck you could run 2 systems in one case if you wanted!

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[ChrisRJ]

I have the Define R6 for 8 drives (Seagate Exos) and in terms of cooling and noise I must say that I am really unhappy with it. The problem are the disk trays. They cover the sides and bottom of the disk, so only the disk's top side is exposed to airflow. It would be different, if I could leave every second slot empty. But since that is not possible, I had to get two high-pressure fans, to keep the drive temperature below 35 C when idle. Those fans are loud as hell.

 

[Torrone]

Six 5400 rpm drive should be easier to manage. I have already bought 2 Seagate IronWolf and they require less power than power than Exos 16 (of course).
Also, the Nanoxia DS8P seems to have more space between HDD racks than in the Define R6.