SOLVED Won't POST with 9.3 on USB

[jnyl42]

I've tried several different methods to get it working, but I can't get my machine working with 9.3 beta. No matter what I do, the machine won't even POST with the USB flash drive plugged in. It hangs right after showing the CPU information.
No big deal since this system is temporary until I can upgrade to server hardware, but I thought I'd shoot you guys the info since you're testing:

- I first tried updating from FreeNAS-9.2.1.8-RELEASE-x64 to FreeNAS-9.3-BETA-aaa86f0-x64 through the web interface. It seemed to complete successfully, but it wouldn't POST after restart.
- I thought the flash drive had died, so I booted the ISO in vmware and installed it to a different flash drive. No POST.
- I verified the SHA on the ISO I had downloaded
- I used dd to wipe the start and end sectors of both drives before trying again. No POST with either.

If I don't attach a flash drive, it posts fine and gets me all the way to the "This is a NAS drive, system halted" message... so no problems with the hardware. I also reverted to 9.2.1.9 and it still works great [after I used dd].

System Info:
Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P v1.6 (Intel P45 + ICH10R chipsets)
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3137#sp
+ Core2Quad Q6600, 8gb DDR2 (non-ECC), 6x 3TB WD Red

Hope that helps. Let me know if I can give you any more info, or if you want a bug report. The hardware is probably uncommon now, so no offense taken if you guys don't want to look into it further either :P

 

[sef]

What kind of thumb drives?

 

[jnyl42]

An 8GB and a 16GB, USB2.0. The 8GB has a Toshiba TC58NC6688G1F memory controller, and the 16 is a Kingston DataTraveller that I'm not keen on cracking open just yet. Both have been in service for a while with no problems... and both will boot 9.2.1.8

 

[sef]

I wanted to know the kind, not the memory controllers.

I will try to do a couple of installs with cheap thumb drives on my cheap machine, and see if it happens for me.

 

[jnyl42]

The 8GB is branded Duracell. The controller is much more relevant.

 

[solarisguy]

Possibly the issue is related to another thread: Updates kick USB out of boot order https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/updates-kick-usb-out-of-boot-order.25007/

If jnyl42's BIOS tries to read some place of the USB device, and gets stuck...

@jnyl42, please post to the other thread details about your BIOS (and a little about the motherboard).

 

[Ericloewe]

This whole BIOS story is getting rather weird.

Do I notice a common factor of "legacy BIOS"? It could be some old BIOS out there reads the first few sectors off drives, for some reason, and gets rather confused with GRUB - which is rather weird in itself.

 

[indivision]

This whole BIOS story is getting rather weird.

Do I notice a common factor of "legacy BIOS"? It could be some old BIOS out there reads the first few sectors off drives, for some reason, and gets rather confused with GRUB - which is rather weird in itself.

This is the MB I'm using: http://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/C60M1I/

Is that legacy? Not ideal NAS hardware. But, seems newish still.

Just to clarify, mine boots 9.3 fine. It just drops the USB out of the boot order after updates.

 

[jnyl42]

That's not legacy... UEFI is the new kind of BIOS that has a GUI and everything.

I read somewhere that unlike 9.2, 9.3 is "installed in it's own zpool". I'm thinking whatever new format it is using is completely incompatible with my motherboard. I have a SuperMicro board on the way, but it's also old (X7DCL-I) so I guess I'll have to wait and see.

 

[cyberjock]

AMDs are a trainwreck with FreeBSD. Needless to say I can't say I'm surprised and I can't say that a fix is forthcoming. AMD has been responsible for so many problems that the second you have a problem and provide an AMD part people will immediately dismiss your problem as a potential hardware problem.

 

[indivision]

I hear that (and have an Intel based system on the way). But, if FreeNAS can be more broadly compatible, that would be a good thing.

I have an update on the issue I was having. But, will post more in the other thread because I think the issue described here is different.

 

[cyberjock]

I hear that (and have an Intel based system on the way). But, if FreeNAS can be more broadly compatible, that would be a good thing.

Well, call up AMD and let them know. They are, in fact, the limiting factor.

 

[nvader]

AMDs are a trainwreck with FreeBSD. Needless to say I can't say I'm surprised and I can't say that a fix is forthcoming. AMD has been responsible for so many problems that the second you have a problem and provide an AMD part people will immediately dismiss your problem as a potential hardware problem.

I've been using freenas for a few years now with AMD and had pretty much zero problems. until 9.3 and the USB drive getting ZFS on it. wouldn't it be possible to make a version without ZFS on the boot drive? several people have posted about having problems after the 9.3 update. since the computers freeze at the bios screen, it may be more of a bios issue than processor issue.

 

[joeschmuck]

Come on, it's not an AMD thing, that is just a crap statement. This is a GRUB thing and is a major change for 9.3. I have seen issues with my Intel CPU with the new GRUB as well and the new GRUB fails to work in VMWare during reboots, running on an Intel system (documented in these threads but without a solution). GRUB doesn't seem too friendly with UEFI either with respect to updates. I don't have this issue running FreeBSD 9.3 on my AMD hardware nor my Intel VMWare machines which kind of points to...

What this feels like to me is iXsystems is creating FreeNAS to run on a specific platform now and not a generic platform. That is a bunch of crap in my book if it is true.

 

[gpsguy]

Just change the installer (and check at boot time) to ensure that the user has:

Supermicro X9 series or later + Intel Core i3 or Xeon + ECC RAM

Or, the Asrock mobo used in the FreeNAS Mini.

Edit: added an emoticon (had forgotten one).

What this feels like to me is iXsystems is creating FreeNAS to run on a specific platform now and not a generic platform.

 

[pjc]

It turns out GRUB is also apparently responsible for the dtrace issues they're working on.

Looks like the transition to GRUB (needed to move the boot pool to ZFS, which is a good move in my view) is going to be a bit rockier than anticipated.

 

[joeschmuck]

Just change the installer (and check at boot time) to ensure that the user has:

Supermicro X9 series or later + Intel Core i3 or Xeon + ECC RAM

Or, the Asrock mobo used in the FreeNAS Mini.

That is funny, I just hope someone doesn't take you seriously :D.

 

[sef]

That is funny, I just hope someone doesn't take you seriously :D.

Note that my crappy machine is a crappy AMD system (but at least it has ECC RAM). It may be the crappiest system in this part of the building.

 

[cyberjock]

Come on, it's not an AMD thing, that is just a crap statement. This is a GRUB thing and is a major change for 9.3. I have seen issues with my Intel CPU with the new GRUB as well and the new GRUB fails to work in VMWare during reboots, running on an Intel system (documented in these threads but without a solution). GRUB doesn't seem too friendly with UEFI either with respect to updates. I don't have this issue running FreeBSD 9.3 on my AMD hardware nor my Intel VMWare machines which kind of points to...

What this feels like to me is iXsystems is creating FreeNAS to run on a specific platform now and not a generic platform. That is a bunch of crap in my book if it is true.

I don't think that's a fair assessment of iXsystems at all. Unless you can provide specific code that shows iXsystems deliberately sabotaging support for AMD this is crap and is nothing but speculation. I'd highly recommend you go read the FreeBSD forums joeschmuck. They have major AMD problems over there. It's not a bunch of FUD when AMD really is causing problems in FreeBSD. Why would you expect FreeNAS to be better than FreeBSD?!

 

[joeschmuck]

I don't think that's a fair assessment of iXsystems at all. Unless you can provide specific code that shows iXsystems deliberately sabotaging support for AMD this is crap and is nothing but speculation. I'd highly recommend you go read the FreeBSD forums joeschmuck. They have major AMD problems over there. It's not a bunch of FUD when AMD really is causing problems in FreeBSD. Why would you expect FreeNAS to be better than FreeBSD?!

All I'm saying is I hear a lot of AMD bashing when the problem is apparently a GRUB issue. The rest of FreeNAS 9.3 appears to be working fine once you get it booted up. As for AMD causing problems for FreeBSD, well a little perspective needs to be added here... I have never seen a software provider dictate hardware requirements, it has always been up to the software provider to adjust their software to be compatible with the hardware. Currently FreeBSD is still supporting AMD so just because they need to do some development, I would at least expect any release version to run fine on both Intel and AMD hardware. FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD Released versions.

Cyberjock, you and I will likely never agree on this and that is okay. I certainly will never hate you for a disagreement.