My First Attempt at Building a NAS

[ImNotNASty]

I've done a fair amount of reading about this topic - here and elsewhere. I'm looking for a backup for our laptops and also a repository for a boat load of photos, music and movies. Based on what I've read, I think that the following will be a decent start, but I'm a total n00b to anything server.

ASRock Rack E3C236D4U Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA1151 Intel C236 FS New

Intel Xeon E3-1245v5 3.5GHz Quad-Core 80W 8MB L3 CPU Used (I did want one with a GPU)

Thermaltake Gravity i2 95W Intel LGA 1156/1155/1150/1151 92mm CPU Cooler CLP

Hynix 16GB 2Rx4 PC4-2133P RDIMM DDR4-17000 ECC REG Registered Server Memory RAM 2 sticks - total 32GB

Team Group MP33 M.2 2280 512GB PCIe 3.0 x4 with NVMe 1.3 3D NAND Internal Solid State

*Grade A* HGST Ultrastar HUH728080ALE601 8TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive Used - 5 year warranty - I'm thinking to start with 4 x 8TB HDDs

EVGA 500 GD, 80+ GOLD 500W, 5 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-GD-0500-V1 Is this big enough?

Fractal Design Node 804 Black Window Aluminum/Steel Micro ATX Cube Computer Case

What other hardware do I need?
Do I need to change anything?

I need to do a lot more reading on the software and configuration side. TrueNAS, of course and I'm leaning Jellyfin for the media server. The rest is totally open, so I'm happy to hear any suggestions.

Thanks for your time and any advice / comments you care to share.

 

[Arwen]

You don't list a boot drive, unless you intend to use a 512GB NVMe for that purpose. (512GB is overkill for a boot drive. Usually something like 32GB to 128GB, SATA or USB adapter for a SATA drive is good.)

For disks larger than say 1TB to 2TB, we don't recommend RAID-Z1, (similar to RAID-5, which means you can loose 1 disk without data loss). With 4 x 8TB disks, a RAID-Z2 eats up 50% of your storage for redundancy, and then even more to keep the pool at 80% or less used.

But, RAID-Z2 does mean you can loose any 2 disks without data loss. If you went with 2 vDevs of 2 x 8TB disks in a Mirror, you can still loose 2 disks. Except they have to be the RIGHT disks. Loosing both disks in a 2 disk Mirror vDev means pool loss and full restore time. (Assuming you have backups.)

 

[joeschmuck]

Hynix 16GB 2Rx4 PC4-2133P RDIMM DDR4-17000 ECC REG Registered Server Memory RAM 2 sticks - total 32GB

Did you find somewhere that this RAM will work on your motherboard? My very quick look says UDIMM, not RDIMM. Not all motherboards will support both Unbuffered and Registered RAM. I'm thinking you are just slapping parts together and hoping it works.

Team Group MP33 M.2 2280 512GB PCIe 3.0 x4 with NVMe 1.3 3D NAND Internal Solid State

What is the intended purpose of this? Boot device? If yes, I would buy the least expensive NVMe SSD, the size will always be overkill so just pay attention to cost. If this costs you $10 then it's a great deal. If you have plans for a cache or ZIL then stop there and don't do it. You don't need it.

*Grade A* HGST Ultrastar HUH728080ALE601 8TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive Used - 5 year warranty - I'm thinking to start with 4 x 8TB HDDs

These are 7200 RPM drives which create more heat than the 5200/5400 RPM hard drives, and you are using a small case.
Only four drives, in what configuration? This is a key thing. I run four drives in a RAIDZ2. It works well for me.

Intel Xeon E3-1245v5 3.5GHz Quad-Core 80W 8MB L3 CPU Used

Used, good luck. Verify who you are purchasing from. The boxed version includes a Heatsink/Fan.

If you are buying used hard drives of the internet, be warned that a lot of folks have received bad products and warranty's are not in effect. Some folks get lucky. Buy from a reputable place.

Thermaltake Gravity i2 95W Intel LGA 1156/1155/1150/1151 92mm CPU Cooler CLP

The one I looked up has a 3 pin fan connector. You should make sure what you are getting and ensure the motherboard will support a 3 Pin CPU fan. Some actually don't (most that I've dealt with do) which is why I say you should know before spending your money.

 

[ImNotNASty]

I did look at the Memory QVL for the mobo. I completely missed the RDIMM vs UDIMM. The description states that the mobo supports Dual channel DDR4 2133/1866 ECC and Non-ECC UDIMM max 64 GB. The QVL lists DDR4-2400 & DDR4-2133.

The rate limiting step on RAM clock speed appears to be the CPU. According to Intel Ark, the E3-1245v5 only supports DDR4-1866/2133 | DDR3L-1333/1600 @ 1.35V. I have I spent hours today looking at Crucial and Hynix and trying to figure out which memory modules will work with this mobo and CPU. I do not want to buy the wrong kind. I can find close matches to the module numbers, but not exact matches and I have not been able to find a way to decode those part numbers to see what the differences between the modules are. Any of you out there have suggestions?

The M.2 SSD is a boot device. I know it is a lot larger than it needs to be for TrueNAS, PLEX/Jellyfin and whatever else needs to be there. I have a lot more reading to do about the software side. I read in the "NAS Hardware 2021 R2a" doc: "Since FreeNAS 9.3 introduced ZFS on the boot device, install size has been slowly creeping up. 16GB is a reasonable minimum that allows for a decent amount of boot environments to fit
comfortably. Larger boot devices can be used for a swap partition and/or logging. In practical terms, a 120 GB-class consumer SSD is often the best choice." The small M.2 SSDs are cheap, so I figured some extra room wouldn't hurt anything.

Mobo has a 4 pin CPU fan header. The cooler I have listed is a 3 pin connection. I'll have to find something suitable with a 4 pin connector. I haven't looked at air coolers in a long time and so many of them now are simply HUGE.

The HDD will be idling most of the time and can be spaced out in the case so they're not right next to one another. From what I've read, this case is popular for small NAS builds. I don't know yet whether I'll set up RAIDZ1 or RAIDZ2. I like the safety of RAIDZ2, but it will reduce the available storage to just under a half of the total 32 TB. I need to do some more math and size accordingly. Are more smaller drives better than fewer large drives? I know that once I build the pool, I can't change it. I will have backups of the data, but right now it's scattered across a number of different devices. What do you guys use to backup your NAS?

I'm trying to keep the cost under $1k.

 

[danb35]

I know it is a lot larger than it needs to be for TrueNAS, PLEX/Jellyfin and whatever else needs to be there.

The boot device will not store your apps; they will instead be on a data pool. The only thing that will be on the boot device is TrueNAS itself unless you engage in non-recommended and unsupported hackery.

(I did want one with a GPU)

Why? The remote management BMC includes sufficient video capability to give you a display on the rare occasions you'd use it.

Hard Drive Used

It's your funeral, but I haven't had very good results with used HDDs. And as already pointed out, 7200 rpm tends to work against you in this application.

Are more smaller drives better than fewer large drives?

For your application, probably not. If block storage is your thing, yes, as more vdevs means more IOPS.

And I don't think I can let a hardware recommendation thread pass without suggesting you consider a pre-built server rather than building yourself. The HPE Microserver Gen8 is available with a Xeon CPU for under US$400--add some RAM, the boot device, and your storage drives, and you're set with a nice little NAS. It does limit you to four drive bays, but if you're only planning on four drives anyway that won't be much of a concern.

 

[ImNotNASty]

I don't know much about servers. I'm learning a little here and a little there. If there is a good "Servers for Dummies" out there, please point me to it.

Thanks for the clarification about the necessary size for the boot drive.

From what I have read, a CPU with a GPU supporting Quick Sync Video allows for better transcoding. I don't know if I'll need that ability for movies and videos, but it didn't add much to the cost. I do not know what a BMC is, but I will look it up.

Please recommend a decent new HDD that won't break the bank. For my application, does the cache size matter?

As long as the modules are 288 pin UDIMM / ECC, can I use any reputable brand of DDR4-2400 & DDR4-2133 RAM?

Why is UDIMM so hard to find and so expensive (compared to RDIMM)?

 

[joeschmuck]

The QVL lists DDR4-2400 & DDR4-2133.

The QVL lists specific memory modules. Just be careful, don't want to spend money on parts you cannot use.

I'm trying to keep the cost under $1k.

That is possible and a prebuilt system is likely the best bet. You need to consider this... You should buy quality parts because all the parts except the HDD's should last at least 10 years, likely much longer. The HDD's are consumable meaning they will fail. Expect 5 years life from most hard drives, but some do fail earlier and some last much longer. I ran into a fella who has almost 10 years runtime on a hard drive and that is the exception. But use the warranty as your guide.

Why is UDIMM so hard to find and so expensive (compared to RDIMM)?

Where are you looking? EBay? Buying new they are everywhere. But this is one reason for buying a prebuilt system, it comes with all the parts already installed.

 

[ImNotNASty]

I looked for HPE Microserver Gen8. I didn't find anything new for under ~$750.

 

[danb35]

I looked for HPE Microserver Gen8. I didn't find anything new for under ~$750.

You wouldn't; the price I mentioned was used, since you were mostly looking at used hardware anyway.

 

[ChrisRJ]

I don't know much about servers. I'm learning a little here and a little there. If there is a good "Servers for Dummies" out there, please point me to it.

I don't think you will find something like that. The simple reason is that "server" can mean anything from your requirements up to a beast that costs more than 50k and can heat your house. In other words: The requirements vary so much, that it is always a pretty individual thing.

The latter is also the reason why the biggest favor you can do yourself, is to think long and hard about what you want to achieve. Don't start your thought process with budget, or specific hardware pieces. All that comes later. Instead think about data volume, reliability, applications to host, etc.

Please recommend a decent new HDD that won't break the bank.

You will need to tell us your budget. Not breaking the bank means VERY different things to different people.

For my application, does the cache size matter?

If you are talking about HDD cache, no.

As long as the modules are 288 pin UDIMM / ECC, can I use any reputable brand of DDR4-2400 & DDR4-2133 RAM?

No. You need to look into the documentation of the vendor. They specify exactly what modules are supported. As soon as you deviate from that list in the slightest, you are running the risk of things not working right from the start (bad) or problems showing up later (really bad).

Why is UDIMM so hard to find and so expensive (compared to RDIMM)?

The market for UDIMMs is much smaller than for RDIMMs. It was the main reason for me back in 2020 to go for a board that supported RDIMMs, because the cost was about 70% less than for UDIMMs.

 

[danb35]

Please recommend a decent new HDD that won't break the bank.

In addition to what Chris said, about the best bang-for-buck in HDDs right now are the Western Digital external drives, shucked--the internal drives removed from the enclosures. See:

EasyStore Drive Shucking like a pro ... by a pro

It has been quite common, for many years, for there to be awesome deals on large capacity hard drives by major vendors on Black Friday. The only downside is that they come in a plastic shell and are "external drives." This week, Post-Covidian...

www.truenas.com

 

[ImNotNASty]

I'm looking at WD Red Plus (CMR) HDDs. I did some calculations and decided that I don't really need 4 x 8TB drives. I can get all of my music, movies, photos and other data into 8TB with room to spare - 4x4TB drives in RAIDZ2. I'm just deciding whether to spend a bit more money and go with 6TB drives. I don't know what I might get into down the road and I want to make sure I have plenty of room.

Post Black Friday, the economics of the EasyStore drives doesn't make sense for me.

I'm not stuck on the motherboard I referenced. I'll happily spend more on a mobo in order to have more choices for less expensive RAM. Any boards that you would recommend?

In this thread, there are comments against buying used and then a comment suggesting buying a used mini server. I have read that used CPUs generally are safe to use, but that you're more likely to run into issues with a used mobo or used RAM. Warranty considerations aside, what are your thoughts on used components?

 

[Constantin]

Supermicro and like "server-grade" enclosures and motherboards repeatedly come up for great prices on eBay and like sources as they get cycled out of data centers. With just four drives, many solutions will fit the bill, including the Mini from iXsystems, which comes with excellent support. If this is your first NAS, I would strongly suggest going that route.

As for used drives, one issue is that it's super easy to wipe SMART data off drives and make bad drives appear good. Memory sort of falls into the same bracket - it can appear good for a while and then fail. However, it tends to be a bigger issue with drives due to mechanical wear than memory, which may be harmed by static electricity during shipping / installation, etc.

If you go used, I would look for a dealer with a good reputation and a return policy that makes sense. I have had good luck with goharddrive.com, whose HE10 drives I use today. Yes, a few failed and needed to be replaced in the first week or so, but i had zero pushback when it came to getting those replacements done and the process was easier than with OEMs whose under-warranty drives needed to be replaced.

 

[danb35]

there are comments against buying used and then a comment suggesting buying a used mini server.

There are comments (mine, for one) recommending against used drives, and one suggesting caution with a bare used CPU. Used complete computers are generally pretty safe when it comes to the electronics (drives can still wear and are subject to other mechanical stresses), and can be (as you'd expect) more economical than new. But if you want new, a Lenovo ThinkSystem ST50 starts just over US$500 new. Configured with 16 GB of RAM and no storage, US$584:

ThinkSystem ST50 Tower Server

Lenovo ThinkSystem ST50 is a compact, affordable entry-level server tower for SMB and home offices. Supports RAID, desktop OSes & daily computing needs.

www.lenovo.com

Prefer Dell? The PowerEdge T40 is US$559--that's with only 8 GB of RAM, but with a Xeon rather than a Celeron:

PowerEdge T40 Tower Server | Dell USA

Dell EMC PowerEdge T40 is an entry-level 1S tower server. This tower server is dependable and efficient to support your growing business.

www.dell.com

I don't think HPE has anything competitive right now. I really like my MicroServer Gen10+, but they've at least doubled in price since I bought mine. If "compact" is important to you, you may still want to look at them, but you can get more bang for your buck elsewhere.

 

[ChrisRJ]

My view on used components, in addition to the good comments from @Constantin and @danb35, is the following (and I sort-of repeat things they wrote here, but still):

• Not all things are created equal when it comes to buying used.
• I would personally not buy a used HDD, unless it comes with at 2-3 years of warranty from a reputable seller.
• Power supplies also age notably, so I would go for a new one. Plus the amount is usually not that big.
• I am pretty open to buy used motherboards, CPU, and RAM. General caution is of course a good idea. But those things tend to not go bad after the initial "burn-in" period.

 

[ImNotNASty]

My initial HDD selection was "*Grade A* HGST Ultrastar HUH728080ALE601 8TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive Used - 5 year warranty" from goharddrive.com. Backblaze rated these drives well. I realize that any drive can fail and that these used drives are from a data center and already have a lot of hours on them. With a RAIDZ2, the statistics of losing 2 drives at the same time is very small and I will have my data backed up on an external drive.

I did look at the iX Mini, but they're out of my budget. Besides, I want to build this. I have built quite a few desktop PCs with good results. I have never built a server.

Looking at LGA2011 boards / C612 to use RDIMM isn't economically feasible with a new board.

I found RAM (I think) from NewEgg. Comparing from what was listed on the motherboard VQL:

They are the same - unless the "T0" on the end means something significant. If it does, it's not listed on SK Hynix's RAM Decoder PDF.

 

[joeschmuck]

I can get all of my music, movies, photos and other data into 8TB with room to spare - 4x4TB drives in RAIDZ2.

So you should be using a RAIDZ calculator because the configuration above only provides a maximum of 7.3TB of storage, that is at 100% capacity which is far from a good thing. Do the calculations and know how much storage you will need. If you need 8TB of storage right now, the I would recommend you purchase 14TB of storage minimum. Why you ask? Because the pool should never be filled over 80% if possible, and absolutely never at 90% or more or you will have a penalty in speed due to the software running in an optimized mode. Also people tend to store more crap once they have a place to put it. Lastly you should plan for 3 to 5 years for the drives to last. After that time you might want to replace the drives with larger ones because you are running out of space.

Using a RAIDZ calculator you can play around with what configurations work for you.

Let me toss some numbers out for you and all these are in a RAIDZ2 configuration:
4TB x 4 Drives = 7.3TB
4TB x 5 drives = 10.9TB
4TB x 6 drives = 14.6TB
6TB x 4 drives = 10.9TB
6TB x 5 drives = 16.4TB

So these are approximate storage capacities and my personal recommendation for you is either 5 or 6 drives, definitely not 4 drives, I would prefer the 6 drive option if it were me, and since you plan to purchase used, it really doesn't matter if you buy 4TB or 6TB, I wouldn't plan on them lasting longer than a few years and if they last longer, that is a bonus.

A little history about my travels with TrueNAS, well I've been here since it started and my first NAS had 6 x 2TB drives. It worked great for me and as soon as my warranty was expired I replaced them with four 6TB drives. This change increased my storage capacity by about 3TB while reducing the power sucking and heat generating drives in my system. I have never stored more than 6TB and have no plans to exceed that amount and I've been very stable like that since I started this adventure. I'm even thinking about changing to 10TB x 3 way mirror the next time I have to buy hard drives. I backup to my NAS and thus I don't need high speed random access to my data.

Prefer Dell? The PowerEdge T40 is US$559--that's with only 8 GB of RAM, but with a Xeon rather than a Celeron

I like this one myself. You just need to add one more stick of 8GB RAM and you have a system capable of doing what I think you want. And yes, 16GB is fine so long as you are not wanting to run several VM's, but I'm sure the IBM computer is good too but I'd rather have a Xeon CPU myself. I run my system on 16GB RAM and have been for a long time without any issues. But if you plan to run several VM's then you need to plan for memory usage.

 

[Davvo]

I'm looking at WD Red Plus (CMR) HDDs. I did some calculations and decided that I don't really need 4 x 8TB drives. I can get all of my music, movies, photos and other data into 8TB with room to spare - 4x4TB drives in RAIDZ2.

If you are considering that size, why don't you just go with 2x8TB drives in mirror? Wouldn't that be cheaper?
Would also have a few more advantages, like less drives (so less heat, noise and power), better performance.

 

[ChrisRJ]

They are the same - unless the "T0" on the end means something significant.

If they were the same, they would have the exact same type name. So they are not the same and using one that deviates from the QVL/HCL in the slightest means taking a risk.

 

[ImNotNASty]

If they were the same, they would have the exact same type name. So they are not the same and using one that deviates from the QVL/HCL in the slightest means taking a risk.

I have been unable to find exact codes for anything on the VQL list.