Is this good for a build upgrade?

canute4444

Dabbler
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
16
Hi,

I am considering an upgrade to my existing TrueNAS Core v13.0 build to Used hardware:
Motherboard: X11SSH-F
CPU: Xeon E3 1245v5
RAM: 16GB RAM

Current use case is
Media and backups in 4 drives totaling 8TB with about 30% filled​
A few Jails that run customized backups. No VMs​

Future use is to support upto 12 drives 64TB with plans to upgrade (RAM,HBA?, PSU) along the way. Likely to have more Jails/Plugins with higher continuous CPU, RAM usage over time as well.

Ideally, I want to use the Micro-ATX case, PSU and drives from my existing build. I do not want to spend more than 250-350$ on the upgrade at the moment.

Do you think this MB+CPU+RAM will work for my requirements? Also, subjectively, is the combo worth the $300 asking price?
 

Davvo

MVP
Joined
Jul 12, 2022
Messages
3,222
If you want up to 12 drives, you need either an HBA or a good PCIE to SATA adapter to use in bifurcation mode (if this mode is available in your motherboard). Make sure your mATX case can host, and most importantly cool, such a number of drives. With 12*8TB you probably want at least 32GB of ram and a PSU powerful enough. CPU should be fine.
Assuming your 300$ budget to not include the spinners, it's achievable probably even with an HBA (which would probably be better than a good adapter, but I'm no expert about this).
Just remember than RAIDZ1 is risky and that you can't expand your vdevs (you can create new ones).

Edit: it's not clear if the configuration you posted is your current one (you have nothing in your signature) or the one you want to buy.
 

canute4444

Dabbler
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
16
Edit: it's not clear if the configuration you posted is your current one (you have nothing in your signature) or the one you want to buy.
Configuration I posted is the one that I am looking to buy. Current one I have is a patch work of old hardware - I used it to test drive TrueNAS.

Assuming your 300$ budget to not include the spinners, it's achievable probably even with an HBA (which would probably be better than a good adapter, but I'm no expert about this).
Are you saying 300$ is too much to pay for the MB+CPU+RAM alone?
$300 is what someone is asking me right now for those 3 items. I am trying to figure out if it makes sense to pay that.
 

Davvo

MVP
Joined
Jul 12, 2022
Messages
3,222
Configuration I posted is the one that I am looking to buy. Current one I have is a patch work of old hardware - I used it to test drive TrueNAS.


Are you saying 300$ is too much to pay for the MB+CPU+RAM alone?
$300 is what someone is asking me right now for those 3 items. I am trying to figure out if it makes sense to pay that.
300$ for the whole pack looks good to me, here in europe for around the same amount we only get the motherboard (example). However, I'm no expert about the US prices.
My previous post was based around the concept of you already having that hardware and wanting to upgrade to a 12 drive system (and therfore having around 300 usd to fix the system for that use).
 

ChrisRJ

Wizard
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
1,919
What is the future use-case? Or is it basically the same with just more capacity?
 

canute4444

Dabbler
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
16
300$ for the whole pack looks good to me, here in europe for around the same amount we only get the motherboard (example). However, I'm no expert about the US prices.
My previous post was based around the concept of you already having that hardware and wanting to upgrade to a 12 drive system (and therfore having around 300 usd to fix the system for that use).
Thanks.

I just realized that your link is for a Refurbished MB. The set that I was looking at is a 'Used' one.
I'm wondering if that makes a difference.
 

joeschmuck

Old Man
Moderator
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
10,994
Look at my ESXi system 1. It's almost the same MB (yours has an M.2 slot), slightly lesser of a CPU (yours is faster), and 64GB RAM (I have a lot of RAM). It's a fantastic setup. I use it to run ESXi and on ESXi I have a TrueNAS VM. I can run other VM's and do such as Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, or or I can run over versions of TrueNAS and link the hard drive pool to them just so I can test something new out if I want to. Or you could use less RAM, 32GB would be great if you are running TrueNAS on the bare metal machine. You could get away with 16GB but if you are serious about keeping this NAS for about 10 years, best to buy it now and be very happy.

As for the price of all three together. The motherboard alone is worth $300 USD new so all three together is definitely a good buy.

WARNING !!! It's used, will you have some sort of guarantee? 30 day month back? Or if it fails a test?
Run the burn in tests (RAM & CPU), and run them for several hours if not over night for each one. I'd recommend the RAM test for at least 24 hours, the CPU test for 5 hours but others will desire to run for 24 hours to saturate the CPU, CPU Socket, and near by components with the heat it could possibly generate. For myself, as a home user, no heavy long lasting loads, 5 hours works for me. I have done a 24 hour test as well, I just wanted to see what would happen. Well I still have the system so all passed. Just make sure you are allowed to test the system and if it fails, you can return it.

Does the CPU come with a Heat Sink & Fan? If it needs to be shipped to you, they need to support the heatsink & fan properly or damage can occur. If they pull off the heatsink & fan then you just need to reinstall it correctly or life will not be kind to you.

Lastly, you do not need an HBA at this point in time. You have 8 SATA ports, 1 for the boot SSD, 7 for hard drives. This will be fine for now.

So that should answer your immediate questions.

The only real concern I have for you is your use case and the fact that you want to expand it to 64TB of storage space and you don't seem to have a clear use case other than to run more jails/VM's in the future. I think you will likely change your mind on the storage capacity. Here is my general guidance on how to start out with selecting a storage capacity. How much storage space do you need right now? How much storage space do you think you will need in 3 years? Now double it. If you only need 5TB of storage now, in three years you will likely double that, now we are at 10TB, and then drives typically last 5+ years if you keep them cool and do not shut them down and spin them up a lot, so double again and we have 20TB. You could buy three 20TB drives and mirror them. Not sure I'd do that but it's possible. I would buy 4 drives that would add up to near 20TB.

Remember one thing, and it's important you understand this... The hard drives are consumable, meaning they will be replaced as they fail. They are the single most expensive component in the entire build. You need to plan on this happening. Generally the CPU/Motherboard/RAM will last the life of the system. You will have a fan or two to replace and those three components should last a long time, if you buy quality components. Don't forget to buy a good power supply. I have a fanless power supply (that is just my desire). I've been bitten before from a failed power supply fan. Fortunately the components you have listed are good quality. Hopefully they arrive at your house in good working order. And Test Them!

Hope this long posting helps you out.
 

canute4444

Dabbler
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Messages
16
Wow! That's a comprehensive reply. I appreciate you taking the time.
Look at my ESXi system 1. It's almost the same MB (yours has an M.2 slot), slightly lesser of a CPU (yours is faster), and 64GB RAM (I have a lot of RAM). It's a fantastic setup. I use it to run ESXi and on ESXi I have a TrueNAS VM. I can run other VM's and do such as Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, or or I can run over versions of TrueNAS and link the hard drive pool to them just so I can test something new out if I want to. Or you could use less RAM, 32GB would be great if you are running TrueNAS on the bare metal machine. You could get away with 16GB but if you are serious about keeping this NAS for about 10 years, best to buy it now and be very happy.

As for the price of all three together. The motherboard alone is worth $300 USD new so all three together is definitely a good buy.
Thank you for validating the specs for me.

WARNING !!! It's used, will you have some sort of guarantee? 30 day month back? Or if it fails a test?
Run the burn in tests (RAM & CPU), and run them for several hours if not over night for each one. I'd recommend the RAM test for at least 24 hours, the CPU test for 5 hours but others will desire to run for 24 hours to saturate the CPU, CPU Socket, and near by components with the heat it could possibly generate. For myself, as a home user, no heavy long lasting loads, 5 hours works for me. I have done a 24 hour test as well, I just wanted to see what would happen. Well I still have the system so all passed. Just make sure you are allowed to test the system and if it fails, you can return it.
I am not sure how much of this is possible. Unfortunately for me, the seller is on eBay and only seems to cover against DOA.

Thank you for all your other suggestions as well. Will post on how it goes if I pull the trigger.
 

joeschmuck

Old Man
Moderator
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
10,994
Unfortunately for me, the seller is on eBay and only seems to cover against DOA
I would consider not passing the CPU and RAM testing as DOA. You should discuss that with the seller before buying. Tell them you need to perform two stability tests, tell them you need to run Prime95 and Memetest86+ on the system, if it passes then you accept it as not DOA. If it fails then the system is not stable and is considered DOA. It's a reasonable request. If that fails then maybe they could perform the testing and you specify the duration. They need to take a photo of the screen and send it to you. Or you just take the risk.
 

Davvo

MVP
Joined
Jul 12, 2022
Messages
3,222
Generally vendors with good hardware have no issues with this kind of requests.
 
Top