SOLVED Hardware Help (First Build)

[Davvo]

Hello oh tech wizards,
I want to build a little home NAS, nothing too serious but since it's my first NAS, I would like building it the right way.

Initially I had choosen an Athleon 200G as my CPU, but grew concerned about ECC ram. It's really an hassle to understand compatibility, plus it would be not registered so in the end I decided to switch to an Intel CPU. And here is the issue: I am totally not an expert in regards of Intel; I tried doing a simple research, but in the end I couldn't put togheter CPU, MOBO and ECC-RAM at a decent price.

I planned to use two 240GB Seagate Ironwolf SSDs (ZA240NX10001) for the OS, and two 3GB Ironwolf HDD 64MB cache (ST3000VN007) in mirror, fitting in a Thermaltake Core V1 Mini ITX case. I planned for 16gb of ram, but I'm not sure since I read that ZFS is really ram-hungry.

Since the market is changing quickly these months I decided to take the safest way, posting a specific thread instead of using existing ones; please roast me if I made any mistake, knowing that I haven't bought a single thing yet.

Cheers from Italy.

 

[Arwen]

ZFS is RAM hungry but if your read speed requirements are modest, you can get away with 16GBs of RAM. ZFS will use any non-OS RAM for caching of recently used files and metadata. Plus, some RAM is used to bundle up disk writes into transaction groups.

ECC RAM is not a requirement, though it's helpful in the long run for reliability of any server.

If you can afford it, a pre-built and qualified server has the advantage of just working. It might not be fast, or as expandable. But, if you know and accept the limitations, it can work just great for new users. As for which pre-built, sometimes that is an issue depending on where you are. In the US, we can get pre-built TrueNAS Minis from iXSystems. Or some smaller HP tower servers both used and new work well. I don't know about Italy.

We do have sticky threads and forum posts on hardware.

Perhaps others can help.

 

[Davvo]

ZFS is RAM hungry but if your read speed requirements are modest, you can get away with 16GBs of RAM. ZFS will use any non-OS RAM for caching of recently used files and metadata. Plus, some RAM is used to bundle up disk writes into transaction groups.

ECC RAM is not a requirement, though it's helpful in the long run for reliability of any server.

Thank you for your reply, 16GB RAM it is then!
Regarding ECC, although I was hesitant this thread convinced me that I want it.

If you can afford it, a pre-built and qualified server has the advantage of just working. It might not be fast, or as expandable. But, if you know and accept the limitations, it can work just great for new users. As for which pre-built, sometimes that is an issue depending on where you are. In the US, we can get pre-built TrueNAS Minis from iXSystems. Or some smaller HP tower servers both used and new work well. I don't know about Italy.

I pondered about it, but in the end I found that gaining experience, experimenting and learning is one of the reasons I want a NAS... plus, it's way more satisfying! As a side note I do have some experience in PC building, though nothing server-side. I will look on prebuilt options again, in order to make sure I have considered all the options.

We do have sticky threads and forum posts on hardware.

Perhaps others can help.

I am exploring the forum bit by bit (pun not intended!), but I'm concerned about the longevity of such threads. Especially since the hardware market experienced quite a rollercoeaster in the past few years.

I appreciate your help :)

 

[Arwen]

I do prefer ECC RAM, it's fine you do too.

Many people can build their own server succesfully. It's just that their are tons of choices and many choices are not as cheap as pre-built used, (or even new), servers. For example, my AMD Epyc NAS was not cheap. But, it has lots of expansion options, and includes built in 1Gbps/2.5Gbps/5Gbps/10Gbps copper Ethernet.

Hardware for a modest NAS can use older hardware, so many of the stickies and forum resources are still valid.

 

[Davvo]

1. MOBO: ASROCK C236 WSI
2. CPU: Intel XEON E3-1235L V5
3. RAM: 1x16GB DDR4 PC4-19200 2400MHZ ECC REG
4. PSU: ???
5. CASE: Thermaltake Core V1 Mini ITX
6. STORAGE: 2x3GB Ironwolf HDD (ST3000VN007)
7. OS: 2x240GB Ironwolf SSD (ZA240NX10001)

Any suggestions? I picked the 1235L because it has integrated graphics and the single stick of ram because it costs less than a pair of 8 and it allows me room for expansion. I literally have no idea about the PSU, help needed. I was thinking of a 450w modular (standard ATX fits).
About the OS drives, is there any real benefit in "mirroring" (I don't actually know the correct term) them and creating swap partitions? Should I use just one and the other for SLOG?

 

[Jessep]

Country?
Budget?

 

[Davvo]

Italy.
600€ max (no drives).

 

[Jessep]

Not super cheap but this one has the basics, not enough ram. The H330 can be flashed to HBA330. I couldn't find any cheap ram in IT.
Wont be the lowest possible wattage, though not bad with some tweaks. Room to grow, solid platform. Newish seller with only (95) so unknown quantity.

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www.ebay.it

Otherwise I would spec something from

Refurbished Servers, PCs, Workstations & Parts | Bargain Hardware

Discover top-quality refurbished IT hardware, including servers, PCs, laptops and workstations, with global delivery options. Upgrade affordably today with Bargain Hardware.

www.bargainhardware.co.uk

If you want to build from parts that's up to you. You can get the lowest wattage, however you have a lot of poor trade-offs.

 

[Arwen]

@Davvo - The board you listed is more of a workstation class. Likely its good and reliable but has un-needed things like audio and graphics.

Another similar option, (though slightly more expensive), is this one;

AsRock Rack E3C246D2I Mini-ITX Server Motherboard LGA 1151 Intel C246 - Newegg.com

Buy AsRock Rack E3C246D2I Mini-ITX Server Motherboard LGA 1151 Intel C246 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

It trades the audio & CPU graphics ports for IPMI, which is remote management via a dedicated network port. Useful if the server is not in the same room as your desktop / laptop.

While this board does have graphics, it is minimal and useful only for BIOS and other light weight usage. Meaning it likely is useless for Plex transcoding. But, you can do remote BIOS management. Some IPMI even allow remote installs using ISO images from your desktop / laptop.

 

[Davvo]

@Jessep that might actually be a solution. Will take that and set aside as reserve option.
@Arwen just realized NewEgg doesn't ship to Italy. Big Oof.
I think I am giving up on the mini-itx form factor as all the mobos I can find are new and as such too expensive for my budget (cheaper ones 500€ new). It's a pity because I really liked the motherboard you picked.

Doing some research in micro-atx, I found this supermicro X11SSL-F (amazon): I should be able to get it new for 291€, which should actually be chepaer than the previous from newegg (if I could have received them) thanks to custom duties/import taxes.
It seems to have the IPMI and it should support ECC ram... unbuffered. Is this good enough? I am mainly concerned by the ECC ram.

QVL RAM for this mobo seems to be only Supermicro Ram... can anyone confimr this?

About the case then, I have in mind the Core X2 from TT (amazon). Second choice would be Node 08 from Fractal (amazon). The TT one is preferred choice as it seems to have more ventilation, although it has a bit less drive bays and it costs 20€ more.

 

[Arwen]

Un-buffered RAM is fine, and you can get un-buffered ECC RAM, (it's cheaper than registered ECC RAM, but un-buffered does not support as much density).

And yes, that board has IPMI. The ASPEED AST2400 BMC chipset is quite common for IPMI, so much so that the old Sun Microsystems has uses similar chips from ASPEED.

Vendors can't test all RAM. In general if you buy quality RAM with the correct specifications, it should work just fine.

I can't comment on the cases.

 

[Davvo]

Vendors can't test all RAM. In general if you buy quality RAM with the correct specifications, it should work just fine.

How can I know which is quality ram? Can you suggest me a few reputable brands?

As a side note I can't seem to find any reason to use two sata ssd as mirrored boot drives, am I missing something?
Also, using a "standard" sata ssd drive for SLOG is a bad idea, right? Heck, I don't even know if I need a SLOG. Where can I find more info about sync write?

 

[nabsltd]

How can I know which is quality ram? Can you suggest me a few reputable brands?

Crucial, Samsung, and Micron.

You can also get used RAM from eBay that was OEM for Cisco, Dell, IBM, HP, etc. The underlying RAM is almost always one of those 3 quality brands.

 

[Davvo]

Crucial, Samsung, and Micron.

You can also get used RAM from eBay that was OEM for Cisco, Dell, IBM, HP, etc. The underlying RAM is almost always one of those 3 quality brands.

Thank you, for the OEM RAM I need to look at the chips right?

 

[nabsltd]

Thank you, for the OEM RAM I need to look at the chips right?

Yes, but I have yet to find anything from those big OEMs that wasn't something I'd trust 100%. Crucial, Samsung, and Micron all have lifetime warranties on their RAM, and they would not do that if they truly expected a lot of failures in even the first 10 years. If RAM isn't DOA, it's going to last longer than you want to keep the rest of the system.

 

[Davvo]

If RAM isn't DOA, it's going to last longer than you want to keep the rest of the system.

Is this true for ECC RAM as well? I read somewhere on this forum that you need to make sure your ram doesn't have issues even if it's not DOA.

 

[nabsltd]

Is this true for ECC RAM as well? I read somewhere on this forum that you need to make sure your ram doesn't have issues even if it's not DOA.

I always test any RAM I buy, whether new or used. I don't use anything but ECC these days, except in laptops where its very hard to find.

 

[Davvo]

I always test any RAM I buy, whether new or used. I don't use anything but ECC these days, except in laptops where its very hard to find.

Can you link me to a thread with some procedures? It would be my first use of ECC memory.

Do you think this could work? 16GB 2666MT/s (micron) or 16GB 2666MHz Stick
QVL of MOBO asks for 16GB DDR4-2666 2Rx8 VLP ECC UDIMM.
Is the micron one worth the 70+ € price difference in your opinion?

1. Supermicro X11SSL-F MOBO (ebay) 186,65€
2. Intel Pentium G5420 CPU (ebay) 69,95€
3. 16GB DDR4 2666MHz Unbuffered ECC RAM (amazon) 97,99€
4. ARCTIC Alpine 12 CO SPU Cooler (amazon) 13,99€
5. LC-Power 560W GOLD PSU (amazon) 60,00€
6. Itek EVOKE CASE (amazon) 64,86 €
7. 1x Seagate IronWolf 250GB SATA SSD (OS) - ZA250NM1A002 (amazon) 67,99€
8. 2x Seagate IronWolf 3 TB CMR HDD (STORAGE) - ST3000VN007 (amazon) 94,73€ each

TOTAL (SHIPPING INCLUDED): 493,44€ + 257,45€ = 750,89€

How does this build looks? The CPU should be powerful enough for a storage server. Could cheap more on the case did it! Overall I will probably need to buy a few fans but hell yeah, I'm pretty darn satisfied!
Do you think that the single stick of ram will have a significant impact on performance?
Am I missing a lot by not having a mirrored SATA SSD boot device?

 

[nabsltd]

How does this build looks?

The CPU is about 3x what I use in my pure storage servers, so that's fine.

The motherboard is also fine, with enough PCIe slots for expansion (future HBA, 10GBit NIC, NVMe card, etc.). Since the motherboard supports up to 2 SATA DOM, I'd skip the 250GB SSD (which I assume you were going to use as a boot drive) and grab a pair of something like this to use as a mirrored boot pool. Basically, you want to look for SLC and support for power through the SATA connector (the orange ones on the motherboard).

The Hynix memory is fine...it's just a touch below the top 3 that I listed. I'd buy a pair of 16GB to take advantage of the 2-channel memory speed increase, plus memory is never wasted. That leaves you with 2 slots open, which you could fill if you need to.

If I buy a case that uses the standard ATX power supply form factor, I never buy anything that isn't Seasonic. They are OEM for most good supplies you see, and have built and designed their own supplies for a very long time. I have several that are now going on 12 years in service. They are expensive, but the one thing you never want to skimp on is the power supply...a bad one can destroy the entire computer.

Other than the case, power supply and cooler, I'd go eBay for everything if you can. It will generally save you a lot of money (although unbuffered ECC RAM is hard to find, since most servers use registered). You could probably get 6TB Seagate IronWolf for around 80€. The key for used hard drives is to find somebody who has hundreds of them available (50+ sold on the listing is a good starting point) and lists them as "tested". You can still end up with a bad drive, but most of those kinds of sellers take returns for long enough for you to test.

 

[Davvo]

The motherboard is also fine, with enough PCIe slots for expansion (future HBA, 10GBit NIC, NVMe card, etc.). Since the motherboard supports up to 2 SATA DOM, I'd skip the 250GB SSD (which I assume you were going to use as a boot drive) and grab a pair of something like this to use as a mirrored boot pool. Basically, you want to look for SLC and support for power through the SATA connector (the orange ones on the motherboard).

I even read something about satadom, probably in the hardware guidelines pdf, but totally forgot about it.
A pair of those would cost me $104.02, plus $19.64 (shipping) and $32.64 (import charges) for a total of $156.30; I don't think the hassle (and the money) it's worth it.
I could just use a sata sdd for the boot drive and replace it when it fails as I read that I just need to backup my config in order to not sustain any data loss (from a boot drive failure); can you confirm this?

The Hynix memory is fine...it's just a touch below the top 3 that I listed. I'd buy a pair of 16GB to take advantage of the 2-channel memory speed increase, plus memory is never wasted. That leaves you with 2 slots open, which you could fill if you need to.

I will probably buy the first stick, see if it works and then watch if I need another.

Other than the case, power supply and cooler, I'd go eBay for everything if you can. It will generally save you a lot of money (although unbuffered ECC RAM is hard to find, since most servers use registered). You could probably get 6TB Seagate IronWolf for around 80€. The key for used hard drives is to find somebody who has hundreds of them available (50+ sold on the listing is a good starting point) and lists them as "tested". You can still end up with a bad drive, but most of those kinds of sellers take returns for long enough for you to test.

I did not have luck, the best I could find was 30€ 2TB Ironwolf which would have been great if only there weren't just 2 of them abvailable; I ditced 2TB HDDs for 3TB ones. As a side note, I'm not comfortable buying used drives.