BACKUP NAS build with AlderLake (i5-12600)

[PtitLu]

Hello everyone,
I have to build a small NAS which gonna back up a the company dropbox (5To) . Im new to the NAS and TrueNAS community , so I dont have order the components yet.

I choose those components :

Intel Core i5-12600 (3.3 GHz / 4.8 GHz) ( avoid Pcore/Ecore issues)
MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4
Corsair Vengeance LPX Series Low Profile 32 Go (2 x 16 Go) DDR4 3600 MHz CL18
NOCTUA NH-U12A (LGA1700 support)
Fractal Design Define R5 Black
Seasonic PRIME TX-750 ( i know its overkill)
Samsung SSD 980 PRO M.2 PCIe NVMe 250 Go (cache)
Samsung SSD 980 M.2 PCIe NVMe 250 Go (OS)
(4+1 spare) Western Digital WD Red Pro 4 To SATA 6Gb/s
with TrueNAS core.


I heard that people had compatibility issues with TrueNAS and Intel I225-V chipset . Do you know any network cards model that TrueNAS core supporting well ?
Also, i didnt go for ECC because its back up NAS and not "main"

I will take every advices .

I hope for you that my english isn't too rusty.

Have a nice day

 

[jgreco]

If you are choosing components, why don't you actually pick components that are known to be highly compatible? Picking random PC components and then trying to apply band-aid fixes to fix the effects of bad choices is not a great path to a positive experience.

There are a number of guides in the Resources section that would help you make appropriate choices. Note that it is not necessary to have the latest and greatest hardware for a NAS, and may even be counterproductive.

 

[PtitLu]

If you are choosing components, why don't you actually pick components that are known to be highly compatible? Picking random PC components and then trying to apply band-aid fixes to fix the effects of bad choices is not a great path to a positive experience.

There are a number of guides in the Resources section that would help you make appropriate choices. Note that it is not necessary to have the latest and greatest hardware for a NAS, and may even be counterproductive.

I dont pick up random component, i read hardware recommandation guide of TrueNAS( trueNAS11 unfotunately) and many videos but their is only few builds with 12th gen sadly :( I pick up the newest component mostly because it is a not home NAS its for work so I need something futur proof and kinda reliable for atleast 5 years.

 

[Etorix]

@PtitLu Specifically you should go for an actual server motherboard, especially if it's a company system. This will bring a well-supported NIC—and support for ECC RAM, because, even for a backup system, one can still "do it right" (and still end up spending more than by using inappropriate consumer/gamer parts).
A backup system definitively does NOT need a L2ARC cache.

Minor quibbles:
4 TB drives seem ridiculously small, but I haven't checked prices recently.
Why pick a 750W PSU if you know it's "overkill"?

 

[PtitLu]

@PtitLu Specifically you should go for an actual server motherboard, especially if it's a company system. This will bring a well-supported NIC—and support for ECC RAM, because, even for a backup system, one can still "do it right" (and still end up spending more than by using inappropriate consumer/gamer parts).
A backup system definitively does NOT need a L2ARC cache.

Minor quibbles:
4 TB drives seem ridiculously small, but I haven't checked prices recently.
Why pick a 750W PSU if you know it's "overkill"?

i take notes , but maybe in future we will do more with it , BTW it's not a big company so i cant invest 10Keuros in it . i'm around 2000/2300euros

its 8TB of raw storage , because its 2x4TB with redondancy so thats why there are 4 HDDs of 4TB each

750W is overkill at the moment but maybe later we would like to put more disks

 

[jgreco]

BTW it's not a big company so i cant invest 10Keuros in it . i'm around 2000/2300euros

So why are you proposing a super-pricey desktop mainboard?

i read hardware recommandation guide of TrueNAS

Please show me where this is in a hardware recommendation and if it is on these forums, I will be happy to make someone's day Very Bad.

In general, this:

I pick up the newest component mostly because it is a not home NAS its for work so I need something futur proof and kinda reliable for atleast 5 years.

is not a valid argument. NAS does not require the absolute latest and greatest. At this point, it's probably good to be getting rid of the 10 year old gear (Supermicro X8/X9), but stuff like Supermicro X11 will be serviceable for years, certainly at least 5. Picking well-tested and well-known hardware tends to have benefits.

 

[Tony-1971]

With 2000 euros probably you can buy a truenas mini system so you are sure that the parts are working with SW.
But unfortunately is not easy to get a mini system in europe (in Italy at least is not easy).

Best Regards,
Antonio

 

[PtitLu]

So why are you proposing a super-pricey desktop mainboard?



Please show me where this is in a hardware recommendation and if it is on these forums, I will be happy to make someone's day Very Bad.

In general, this:



is not a valid argument. NAS does not require the absolute latest and greatest. At this point, it's probably good to be getting rid of the 10 year old gear (Supermicro X8/X9), but stuff like Supermicro X11 will be serviceable for years, certainly at least 5. Picking well-tested and well-known hardware tends to have benefits.

here mainly , (HDD,PSU, the fact that back up server doenst need ECC,...) : https://www.truenas.com/community/r...ndations-guide.12/updates#resource-update-392

for the stuff like Supermicro motherboard i will check , because ECC isnt taht expensive but CPU and motherboard, its another thing.

 

[Etorix]

i take notes , but maybe in future we will do more with it , BTW it's not a big company so i cant invest 10Keuros in it . i'm around 2000/2300euros

I'm sure we can pull something at your requirements under this budget.
A starting point could be a Supermicro X11SC(LMH) motherboard, with a Core i3-8100/9100 on stock cooler (if these CPUs are still available) and 16-32 Gb of (ECC) UDIMM.

its 8TB of raw storage , because its 2x4TB with redondancy so thats why there are 4 HDDs of 4TB each

Be that intended as 4-wide raidz2 or 2*2-way mirrors, that's not terribly space efficient for what is just a backup.

750W is overkill at the moment but maybe later we would like to put more disks

Present and future requirements would best be clearly defined NOW, as that would then allow to properly size the PSU (and RAM), define how many SATA ports we want on the motherboard and/or whether a HBA is in order.
The Define case may not be the best choice for servicing drives later on.

 

[Ericloewe]

trueNAS11 unfotunately

The recommendations don't magically change! The big change will be when the server Alder Lake parts are released, probably 4-6 months from now. And they'll probably still not be recommended while the guinea pigs early adopters among us deal with the inevitable pain that the whole P+E core story brings along for the ride. The NIC is the least of your concerns here, that's going to be working well enough "soon".
iX's super-special enterprise-grade stuff doesn't just jump on the latest hardware either, they upgrade when things are sufficiently stable (and there's a good reason to upgrade).

Let's examine this line-by-line:

Intel Core i5-12600 (3.3 GHz / 4.8 GHz) ( avoid Pcore/Ecore issues)

Avoid them too with a whatever-lake Xeon works for you in an X12ST* motherboard. Plus similar performance.

MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4

Probably same price as a Supermicro X12STH-F for eight SATA ports, drop down to an X12SCL-F and you still have six SATA ports.

Corsair Vengeance LPX Series Low Profile 32 Go (2 x 16 Go) DDR4 3600 MHz CL18

Obviously replace with ECC RAM from the QVL. You can also save some cash up-front by going with 16 GB, which should be plenty based on your description - and you can always easily add more later.

NOCTUA NH-U12A (LGA1700 support)
Fractal Design Define R5 Black
Seasonic PRIME TX-750 ( i know its overkill)

No big deal here, but the cooler is frankly excessive. The NH-D9L is quite a bit cheaper and more than capable of handling any LGA 115x/1700 CPU. It handles my Xeon E5-1650 v3 just fine. Also, less chance of damaging your system or your feet.

Samsung SSD 980 PRO M.2 PCIe NVMe 250 Go (cache)

I don't know what the plan is (L2ARC? SLOG?) but you can just forget about it, really. Backing up dropbox? That sounds like a very simple workload that would not benefit from either of those.

(4+1 spare) Western Digital WD Red Pro 4 To SATA 6Gb/s

Skip the Red Pros, they're louder and use more power for no real benefit. Go for Red Plus instead (regular Reds are %#%&@$^ SMR).
4 TB is oddly small these days, but if you only need ~6 TB usable, I guess it's still the cheapest option.

If you want faster networking, add a used (think of it as already burned-in) Intel NIC, SFP+ or 10GBase-T according to your needs. SFP+ is the way to go if you're just starting with >1Gb networking.

 

[Ericloewe]

Samsung SSD 980 M.2 PCIe NVMe 250 Go (OS)

Sidenote: This guy seems to be pretty cheap at 39 bucks. The 970 Evo is around 50, WD SN550 (which is slightly dodgier) is 37... No point penny-pinching to that point, so it's a decent option.

 

[jgreco]

Let's examine this line-by-line:

oh thank god someone else got to this first. thankyouthankyouthankyou

 

[Etorix]

Let's examine this line-by-line:

Thanks for this!

Avoid them too with a whatever-lake Xeon works for you in an X12SC* motherboard. Plus similar performance.

Probably same price as a Supermicro X12SCH-F for eight SATA ports, drop down to an X12SCL-F and you still have six SATA ports.

That's actually X12STH-F, because the corresponding Xeons E-2300 appear to be actually based on the Tiger Lake range of laptop CPUs rather than on the desktop Rocket Lake CPUs like the worsktation Xeons W-1300—hence the very different TDP between W-1300 and E-2300.
I haven't checked in France, but the X12ST_ motherboards are not yet listed in the Netherlands and come at unsavoury prices in Germany (360 E); same for the E-2300 Xeons (removing compatibility with Core i3 in this generation of parts is obviously expected to boost Intel's revenue).
Even with server components, I would pass on the latest and greatest and stay with the previous generation.

The MSI Z690-A PRO is actually not so expensive for this generation: It comes at 200 E. (There's no reference to "gaming" in the name, so it must be low-end, dressed up to look business-minded…). Which is about the price for a X11SCL-F (again, in the Netherlands), with the same 6 SATA as MSI Z690-A PRO. X11SCH-F/LN4F (8 SATA) comes at 280 E, and I've also found a X11SCL-CF at this price: C242 with onboard SAS HBA (LSI3008)—great for a serious NAS, overkill for backing up 5 TB. With a 130 E Core i3-9100 (used to be under 100 E…), that's around 400 E for MB+CPU: Same cost as Z690+i5-12400, or lower. The server option is less sexy than last gen consumer hardware, but largely capable enough for the workload.

And with that I rest the case for now…

 

[Ericloewe]

That's actually X12STH-F, because the corresponding Xeons E-2300 appear to be actually based on the Tiger Lake range of laptop CPUs rather than on the desktop Rocket Lake CPUs like the worsktation Xeons W-1300—hence the very different TDP between W-1300 and E-2300.

You're right of course.

The MSI Z690-A PRO is actually not so expensive for this generation: It comes at 200 E. (There's no reference to "gaming" in the name, so it must be low-end, dressed up to look business-minded…). Which is about the price for a X11SCL-F (again, in the Netherlands), with the same 6 SATA as MSI Z690-A PRO. X11SCH-F/LN4F (8 SATA) comes at 280 E, and I've also found a X11SCL-CF at this price: C242 with onboard SAS HBA (LSI3008)—great for a serious NAS, overkill for backing up 5 TB. With a 130 E Core i3-9100 (used to be under 100 E…), that's around 400 E for MB+CPU: Same cost as Z690+i5-12400, or lower. The server option is less sexy than last gen consumer hardware, but largely capable enough for the workload.

This is all good advice, with a bunch more research than I put into it.

The server option is less sexy than last gen consumer hardware, but largely capable enough for the workload.

Hell, I bet my X10SLM+-F and Core i3-4330 would be plenty for the given workload.

 

[Etorix]

Hell, I bet my X10SLM+-F and Core i3-4330 would be plenty for the given workload.

The bet is a sure win.
But X10SLM+-F no longer has a listed price at tweakers.net and Core i3-4330 is 103 E from the last supplier, so it's not viable here as a new build.
A Pentium Gold G5600F would do, but at 89 E (and one supplier) is it worth the saving over a boxed i3-9100(F) (widely available from 127/135 E)? Curiously, the i3-8100 is more expensive than the i3-9100. And these 8/9th gen. Core i3 are more expensive than the later 10-12th generations… which no longer support ECC and push towards Xeon E-2300/W-1300 at twice the price for the same number of cores.
It's time to shop around while supply lasts for X11SC_ builds.

 

[Ericloewe]

But X10SLM+-F no longer has a listed price

It's been discontinued for a few years now. It has been like 8 years... (ouch)
Skylake is still available, though.

 

[Etorix]

@PtitLu Any feedback from you before this turns into a chatter between regular suspects posters?
To clarify: With the suggested X11SC_ builds, you lose two cores and some computing power over an i5-12400 (but the system will be idle most of the time, and only reach full CPU use during scrubs) and gain a fully supported platform which is optimised for 24/7 operation and designed for remote administration. Basically, once the build is complete and validated (and possibly even while validating…) there will never be a need to plug in a monitor, keyboard and mouse, only power and an Ethernet cable into the BMC.

 

[Etorix]

On an unrelated note, keen eyes have spotted early references to ECC motherboards for Alder Lake:

Supermicro's Intel W680 Motherboards Listed: Alder Lake-Based Xeons Incoming

Intel's next-generation Xeon E-3300-series CPUs with DDR5/ECC memory are nearing.

www.tomshardware.com

But "SAE" indicates a "workstation" motherboard, so these are intended for desktop systems with some "Xeon W-1400" rather than for servers with "Xeon E-2400", and Intel completely bifurcated the two lines in the previous generation. We may have to wait some more for the C260 chipsets and server boards.

 

[Ericloewe]

If the past few generations are any indication, it’ll be a lag of a few months. I’m slightly surprised by the early mentions of workstation parts, because they’ve been lagging by a quarter or more in recent generations, but this may be just a retailer jumping the gun on early into. Sona.de is, as I understand it, a significant Supermicro distributor in Germany.

 

[PtitLu]

Hi guys , thanks for all your advices ,

i will go for I3 9100 ,with 16 or 32 Go of ECC memory UDIMM with the Asus WS C246M Pro (which support ECC and has Intel I210-AT / I219LM NIC) (147euros ) which is much cheaper than the supermicro boards in France.

Also probably go for the WD RED Plus instead of the Pros.

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