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Supermicro MBD-X10SLL-F-O + Intel Xeon E3-1220V3 vs. ASRock C2550D4I

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kayot

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I've been working on a replacement build for a while now. I plan to replace 12 2TB Green drives with 8 3TB Green Drives.

Parts I have now:
IBM ServeRaid M1015 PCI-E 8-port SAS-SATA Controller Card SAS9220-8i 46C8933
Rosewill RSV-L4411 4U Rackmount Server Chassis 12 SATA Hot-Swap Drives

The rest are being given away to my sister to use as a desktop since my research shows that it was a bad idea to use desktop components in a file server.

Parts I Need:
8 3TB (or 4TB if the prices comes down a bit) Drives (Either Red or Green with WDIDLE3) <- Shopping around to get non-batch drives
2 SAS to 4 Sata splitter cables (Highpoint or Rosewill?)
2 8GB Sticks of Ram -> Crucial 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR3L 1600MT/s (PC3-12800) DR x8 ECC UDIMM 240-Pin Server Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B
- I think this is the right ram for both MB listed below.

1 Motherboard
1 CPU

I'm divided on either a ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard DDR3 1600/1333/1066 (Total $279.99) or SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SLL-F-O uATX Server Motherboard LGA 1150 DDR3 1600 + Intel Xeon E3-1220V3 Haswell 3.1GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1150 80W Server Processor BX80646E31220V3 (Total $359.98)

I'm not sure what would be better since this is my first REAL file server. I don't plan on doing much with the file server other than serving files and possibly Universal Media Server. I plan to put the drives into a ZFS RAID-Z2 and I want to test out Deduplication with a SSD (80,000 IOPS, SATA III) I already have, but it's not a deal breaker if it doesn't work out.

I also need a way to use the 12 2TB drives as removable backup.

So my question is, since both motherboard + cpu come to about the same cost, which one would be the better buy given my usage?

Second question, I noticed a USB port directly on the MBD-X10SLL-F-O MB, could I put FreeNAS on a USB drive and put the drive in that port?
 

Ericloewe

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I've been working on a replacement build for a while now. I plan to replace 12 2TB Green drives with 8 3TB Green Drives.

Parts I have now:
IBM ServeRaid M1015 PCI-E 8-port SAS-SATA Controller Card SAS9220-8i 46C8933
Rosewill RSV-L4411 4U Rackmount Server Chassis 12 SATA Hot-Swap Drives

The rest are being given away to my sister to use as a desktop since my research shows that it was a bad idea to use desktop components in a file server.

Parts I Need:
8 3TB (or 4TB if the prices comes down a bit) Drives (Either Red or Green with WDIDLE3) <- Shopping around to get non-batch drives
2 SAS to 4 Sata splitter cables (Highpoint or Rosewill?)
2 8GB Sticks of Ram -> Crucial 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR3L 1600MT/s (PC3-12800) DR x8 ECC UDIMM 240-Pin Server Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B
- I think this is the right ram for both MB listed below.

1 Motherboard
1 CPU

I'm divided on either a ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard DDR3 1600/1333/1066 (Total $279.99) or SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SLL-F-O uATX Server Motherboard LGA 1150 DDR3 1600 + Intel Xeon E3-1220V3 Haswell 3.1GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1150 80W Server Processor BX80646E31220V3 (Total $359.98)

I'm not sure what would be better since this is my first REAL file server. I don't plan on doing much with the file server other than serving files and possibly Universal Media Server. I plan to put the drives into a ZFS RAID-Z2 and I want to test out Deduplication with a SSD (80,000 IOPS, SATA III) I already have, but it's not a deal breaker if it doesn't work out.

I also need a way to use the 12 2TB drives as removable backup.

So my question is, since both motherboard + cpu come to about the same cost, which one would be the better buy given my usage?

Second question, I noticed a USB port directly on the MBD-X10SLL-F-O MB, could I put FreeNAS on a USB drive and put the drive in that port?

The second option will have much better performance and will be easier to expand. I'm hesitant to recommend an Avoton system if you'll be using an HBA, due to the limited PCI-e connectivity. If you'll be doing transcoding, the C2550 is probably too slow and you'd need either the Xeon or the C2750.
 

joeschmuck

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There is a night and day difference between these two systems. The ASRock would be a much lighter system as the CPU is not even close to what the Xeon is. I'd go for the Supermicro setup if you are not concerned about a small footprint. Yes, the onboard USB slot can be used as a place for your boot flash.

As for deduplication, well you are going to need a lot more RAM for that and neither motherboard could support that. We are talking 64GB or more. Have you read the user manual about Deduplication? You need to.

The removable drives storage, that is a separate issue and there are several ways to handle that but that is not motherboard specific.

Lastly, do not hot swap a drive even though you have a hot swap bay. They generally will cause you issues so power the system off before removing or inserting drives.
 

kayot

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Messages
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I have admitably read the manual on deduplication. The guy who wrote it was very passionate about not using deduplication. It's defiantly a bad idea and ram requirements are astronomical. I want to see what it's like with a SSD, and with it turned off to make a decision. The data doesn't change all that often and I wondered if it might be a good idea. It probably isn't, but neither was using desktop components as a server. This is something I have to try at least once.

As for hot swapping, I have no intention of hot swapping drives. This is what is making my backup drives a problem. I want to use one or two at a time and power off then on to swap them. I don't know of a backup solution for this and it's driving me nuts since I know one has to exist. This is unrelated to my build, and really just a peeve I'm sure I'll solve in due time.

The case I'm putting this in is huge. I'm mainly worried that I might not have the right ram/cpu/motherboard combo. Last thing I want is to try and power it on and hear four beeps.

Is the Xeon I picked good? I've only ever delt with desktop components and the server line has always seemed out side of my knowledge.

This board mentioned in the Recommended Hardware looks good
SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard (179.99)

The suggested chip looks nice, but complains that there is a newer version, yet the newer version is listed as LGA 1150.
Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 69W Server Processor BX80637E31230V2 (229.99)

Those two together are $409.98

Together, those are the same cost as the ASRock C2750D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard FCBGA1283 DDR3 1600/1333, ($409.99) thought I'll use and after market heatsink on the Xeon adding another 20$ which I think would be worth it.

Should I go with this chip board combo? Also, is the ram in the OP correct for this combo?
 

joeschmuck

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First, the Supermicro MB is a fine choice and the CPU is fine as well however you might drop down to the Xeon E3-1220 V2 and save yourself $30.

Second, you are correct in what you didn't come out and say, you need to stick with the correct socket CPU based on the MB you purchase.

Also know that if you end up purchasing a Haswell CPU you must have a Haswell compatible power supply.

I'm not the RAM expert but stick with the motherboard manufacturers recommendations for Supermicro boards.
 

Ericloewe

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RAM in the OP is good for X10 motherboards.

First, the Supermicro MB is a fine choice and the CPU is fine as well however you might drop down to the Xeon E3-1220 V2 and save yourself $30.

Second, you are correct in what you didn't come out and say, you need to stick with the correct socket CPU based on the MB you purchase.

Also know that if you end up purchasing a Haswell CPU you must have a Haswell compatible power supply.

I'm not the RAM expert but stick with the motherboard manufacturers recommendations for Supermicro boards.

Any reasonable PSU should have no problem with Haswell. Anything with Gold efficiency is almost certainly not group-regulated, which means it'll have no trouble with Haswell.
 

kayot

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The PSU is no problem. I'm using a good one -> OCZ Technology Fatal1ty Series 1000 Watt Modular ATX Power Supply

One of the two motherboards has a PCIx16 slot, it that even remotely useful for me? I'd think that the 4 PCIx8 slots would be more than enough.

I was watching a youtube video about the IPMI and I noticed that updating the BIOS through IPMA needs a Bios Update Key that apparently costs an additional $20 if you can find a seller. Then I read that I need Bios version 2.00 to use the above listed CPU's. I'm ordering this off of Newegg and I wondered, is this going to be a problem?
 

Ericloewe

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The PSU is no problem. I'm using a good one -> OCZ Technology Fatal1ty Series 1000 Watt Modular ATX Power Supply

One of the two motherboards has a PCIx16 slot, it that even remotely useful for me? I'd think that the 4 PCIx8 slots would be more than enough.

I was watching a youtube video about the IPMI and I noticed that updating the BIOS through IPMA needs a Bios Update Key that apparently costs an additional $20 if you can find a seller. Then I read that I need Bios version 2.00 to use the above listed CPU's. I'm ordering this off of Newegg and I wondered, is this going to be a problem?

Not quite: On Supermicro X10 boards, the 16x PCI-e slot is electrically a x8 PCI-e 3.0, one 8x is 8x PCI-e 3.0 and the last one is 4x PCI-e 2.0. On that X9, it's the same electrical layout, but with the last four lanes split into two 2x PCI-e 2.0. The X10 layout is probably more useful in real life.

The Xeon E3 1220 v3 doesn't need the 2.0 BIOS, so that's not an issue at all (you can flash the BIOS from an OS, like DOS, as explained in the X10 FAQ).
 

kayot

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(Cleans up nose bleed), Alright, that's a vote for the one with three slots.

So my final setup is:

Intel Xeon E3-1220V3 Haswell 3.1GHz LGA 1150 80W Server Processor BX80646E31220V3
SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SLM-F-O uATX Server Motherboard LGA 1150 Intel C224 DDR3 1600

Bundle Cost: 359.98

Ram - Fun story, as I was buying, the set with two in it jumped in price to $206 while individually it was $90.20 each.
2 of Crucial 8GB Single DDR3 1600 MT/s (PC3-12800) CL11 Unbuffered ECC UDIMM 240-Pin Server Memory CT102472BA160B

Cost: $180.40

I'll see what the stock cooler can do before going after market.

I have an IBM ServeRaid M1015 PCI-E 8-port SAS-SATA Controller Card SAS9220-8i 46C8933 ($109.99) on the way, and I'm still looking at SAS to SATA cables. ($15 each, need two)

Grand Total: $680.37

Now I just have to find a way to get 8 3TB WD Green drives for as little as possible. That's the rough part.
 

joeschmuck

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You are going to have a very nice system once you are done.
 

kayot

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I'll make sure to report back once it's complete and the Raidz2 is setup. I'm sure I'll have a story to tell ^-^
 

kayot

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Double Post - I'm looking at the motherboard I purchased and it has a USB 3.0 slot on it next to the Sata ports. I already knew this was on the board, but was wondering, how does USB 3.0 fare in FreeNAS?

I was looking at 2.0 drives, and I found an $8 16GB one from Kingston -> Kingston Digital DataTraveler SE9 16GB USB 2.0 (DTSE9H/16GBZET)

Then I saw a high performance 3.0 for $15 -> Kingston Digital 16GB USB 3.0 100MB/s Read 25MB/s Write DataTraveler (DTR30G2/16GB)

Would I get a decent benefit from 3.0 with FreeNAS 9.3 or will it just load the whole thing into ram anyway and it's a moot point?
 

joeschmuck

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Actually USB 3.0 fairs pretty well on many motherboards. I don't recall if USB 3.0 is enabled by default, you should check the User Manual for more info on this. If you place your boot device there and have issues, move it to a true USB 2.0 port.

Don't expect too much from any USB 3.0 device where you pay $15 for it. I took a look at some benchmarks for that device and they are all over the place but the average was actually impressive, 95MB/sec read, 25MB/sec write. As a boot device USB 3.0 isn't really needed for FreeNAS but it is something you can play around with for sure.
 

marbus90

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Not quite: On Supermicro X10 boards, the 16x PCI-e slot is electrically a x8 PCI-e 3.0, one 8x is 8x PCI-e 3.0 and the last one is 4x PCI-e 2.0. On that X9, it's the same electrical layout, but with the last four lanes split into two 2x PCI-e 2.0. The X10 layout is probably more useful in real life.

The Xeon E3 1220 v3 doesn't need the 2.0 BIOS, so that's not an issue at all (you can flash the BIOS from an OS, like DOS, as explained in the X10 FAQ).
AFAIK the X9 series had additional PCIe 2.0 lanes, leaving both of the PCIe 2.0 x8 slots at the bottom at x4 electrical..

The safer way for USB3 with FreeNAS is to disable it completely. The USB3 sticks still work in a USB2 port.
 

kayot

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Yea, I was reading the whole FreeNAS manual and it claims that USB 3.0 isn't fully supported and can lead to all sorts of weird problems. I also read that doing a scrub with a deep smart scan leads to an infinite scrub cycle for no apparent reason. I'm a bit confused about vdevs and vpools since it looks like I can't use a harddisk on the side as it somehow terminates the vpool when it's pulled from the server. I'll need to experiment with that once I get all the system parts together. Somethings have to be observed to be understood.
 

kayot

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Update and Close - I wanted to tell you all what ended up happening.

I got the hardware and 5 4TB drives. I tried to use ZFS for about a month and kept hitting little snags here and there but nothing I couldn't forum lurk to solve. However after about a month, I started getting annoyed at every little nuance. So I decided to try Ubuntu Server with btrfs. I figured that going from a GUI to straight SSH would be hard and harder still would be managing the btrfs array. It was a breeze. The only downside is having to keep my kernel at release. Thankfully Ubuntu has a site dedicated to kernel releases, making that easy. I just wget the latest version and install it with dependencies.

One thing that hasn't hit mainline is auto snapshots.

My biggest reason for going with btrfs is its ability to grow and shrink the array and add/remove a raid level. I plan to add three more 4TB drives to the array and go from a z1 to a z2. I'm still looking for good archiving software, right now I'm archiving the array by hand one drive at a time. It's time consuming but gives me a reliable backup in case btrfs goes tits up.

As for the server hardware; it's rock solid. I decided to install the OS on a harddisk rather than a USB device. The USB device was painfully slow. That and I had 14 sata ports and only 12 bays, so I put two internally and just set them on their side next to the motherboard. I wish I could use a graphical desktop via RDC but I don't do enough on the system to justify it. SSH works flawlessly and IPMI allows be to diagnose network connection issues. One big issue with keeping up with kernel releases is that every now and then I hit a minor snap. CUPS kept crashing my server so I hit ebay and got a print server for $17.50 with free shipping that is working great.

I'm very happy with the server setup and I thank everyone who helped me with the hardware selection.
 

cyberjock

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I wish you luck in your server.

I was talking to someone the other day about btrfs and they had some interesting takes on it. In particular he's somewhat convinced that since ZFS is likely to have the ability to grow and shrink in the future that btrfs is going to die a quick death the second that feature is available on ZFS. Apparently there's going to be some rudimentary support for striped zpools later this year. RAIDZ1+ will be later.
 
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