New to FreeNAS and having 2 issues with initial setup

[Big Ry]

I'm completely new to this, so sorry if these are either stupid questions or not even related to FreeNAS itself. It's hard for me to tell what the issue really is.

I have a Windows 10 machine that I use for both Plex and Surveillance (Blue Iris ATM, but moving to DW Spectrum soon). The machine is also being used as a workstation during the pandemic. My Plex storage is running low, so I've planned an expansion, but I wanted to run the drives in a redundant array/pool to get a good balance of storage space and data integrity (speed isn't super important in my case). Ideally, I wanted to stay in the Windows environment, but (reliable) Raid options are very limited. After a lot of different discussions, mostly over at Hardforum and on Reddit, I decided to go with setting up a FreeNAS VM in Hyper-V and configuring the storage drives as Z1. I don't need FreeNAS for anything besides managing the Plex storage drives. I still plan to run Plex in Windows, which means those drives need to be available in the Windows environment. I also need to run Plex transcoding on my 2060 KO in Windows. The iGPU is dedicated solely to surveillance for QSV FYI.

For running the FreeNAS VM, I have the following hardware that will be used for no other purpose besides FreeNAS:
- 3x WD Gold 12TB HDDs
- LSI SAS 4i4e HBA
- Samsung Evo 850 500GB SSD

Other host machine specs include:
- MSI Z390 Gaming Edge AC (Virtualization turned on)
- i7-8700
- 32GB Corsair Vengeance 3000MHz (XMP)
- Samsung 970 Pro NVMe 512GB (Windows boot)
- A handful of other HDDs and SSDs for Windows (all on the board)
- Windows 10 Pro w/Hyper-V enabled

The following resources are dedicated to the VM:
- 2 cores
- 12GB ram (not dynamic)
- 3x WD Golds passed through on SCSI controller
- Samsung EVO (setup as virtual disk because that was the only option)

So far I've gone through the basic Hyper-V configuration and ran FreeNAS setup in the VM. I've run into two issues though:

1) Right out of the gate I started getting checkpoint errors when starting the VM. It fails to create checkpoints for some reason, then the VM won't start because of it. I've since temporarily disabled checkpoints just so i can get through the initial FreeNAS setup in the VM. This obviously isn't a long term solution, but I'm at a loss as to why I'm getting these errors. Since this occurs before even setting up FreeNAS in the VM, I'm sure this is more related to hyper V. Anyone have any clue what's going on?

2) After running through the FreeNAS setup, FreeNAS kicked out the boot IP per usual. The IP it provided appeared to match that of my ExpressVPN server that's configured in my router (host machine is connected to said server). OK, no big deal. I watched several videos showing how to change this. So I changed it to 192.168.1.150, and all appeared fine. But when I try to connect to it in a browser, it fails to connect. I tried the original IP address, no dice. Tried resetting network configuration, nothing. I don't understand why this isn't working. I'm following the exact same steps that everyone else does on the half dozen videos I've watched on YouTube. When I ping the address, it sends and receives all packets fine with no loss. I even tried disabling the firewall to no avail.

Probably completely unrelated, but I was not able to create the boot media as FreeNAS instructed on their video. I tried using that software to write the ISO to a thumb drive, but i had constant problems with the drive reverting to unallocated space in Windows disk management. I tried 3 different drives that were a mixture of usb 2.0 and 3.0 spec, and I tried several USB ports on my computer. I ultimately was able to successfully write the boot media using an 18 year old SanDisk 1GB thumb drive, but in the end the media wasn't even visible to Hyper-V anyway so I just said fuck it and dragged-dropped the ISO directly to the thumb drive. Once I did that I was able to run the install.

 

[subhuman]

-in a VM
-even worse, under Windows
-very insufficient RAM
-non-ECC
-overclocking the memory controller for that non-ECC RAM
These are all things that either will cause or are potential causes of problems. I urge you to reconsider your hardware choices.

 

[Big Ry]

-in a VM
-even worse, under Windows
-very insufficient RAM
-non-ECC
-overclocking the memory controller for that non-ECC RAM
These are all things that either will cause or are potential causes of problems. I urge you to reconsider your hardware choices.

The Windows host OS is not optional, so therefore a VM is required. There's not exactly a ton of info on these kinds of configurations, and I'm also very much a beginner here. My initial research turned up none of the concerns your raising, so maybe explain them?

I can easily turn off XMP and return to normal clock speeds if need be, so that's a non-issue. How on Earth is 32gb insufficient? There's no way that's insufficient. If the 12gb I've allocated to the VM is insufficient, I'd say i need to rethink using FreeNAS as that's a ton of memory for a very small operation. I don't even know what non-ECC memory is, so maybe clarify.

If Hyper-V is a problem in and of itself, ok, but why and what the alternative? VMWare? Pretty expensive alternative. Virtualbox? Not a true hypervisor, so surely that's a worse choice.

Saying "rethink your hardware" is just ignorant. Do you know how many thousands of dollars I have invested in this machine already? I didn't build it for this purpose at all. I was just looking for storage expansion and was recommended this as an option. So with that said, what would be a REASONABLE solution? If it's just not going to work, and you're certain of it, then say that. But I've read about people doing exactly what I'm doing, so it must work. If you have a clue as to what are the most volatile aspects of this build, then maybe i can address those individually.

 

[Big Ry]

BTW, i figured out #2 already. I guess VM network adapter configuration has changed somewhat recently, so none of the tutorials i was looking at had any mention of creating a new virtual adapter. That was my issue.

#1 is still ongoing, but i was told checkpoints only really matter in a Windows guest OS. That dont serve any purpose in a FreeNAS guest OS. If that statement is incorrect, please let me know.

Now my current issue in this FreeNAS VM is getting S.M.A.R.T. checks enabled. I have them scheduled for the raid Z I created, but i can't turn the service on. I get an error. I've been told this is because i need to passthrough the HBA card, but I'm having trouble getting the appropriate permissions to dismount it in powershell. I've checked the Avago and MSI BIOS settings to no avail. Not sure what's going on.

 

[subhuman]

My initial research turned up none of the concerns your raising, so maybe explain them?

FreeNAS user guide: https://www.ixsystems.com/documentation/FreeNAS/11.3-U3.2/intro.html#ram
It mentioned 8GB RAM minimum, plus 1 GB/ TB of disk space. 8+24=32 for FreeNAS, not the host. FreeNAS needs 32GB.
It also recommends ECC RAM, and links to more reading material on the subject.
re: speed, https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8700-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html
DDR4-2666. Not 3000.
Forum stickies about what I mentioned:

"Absolutely must virtualize FreeNAS!" ... a guide to not completely losing your data.

[---- 2018/02/27: This is still as relevant as ever. As PCIe-Passthru has matured, fewer problems are reported. I've updated some specific things known to be problematic ----] [---- 2014/12/24: Note, there is another post discussing how to deploy a small FreeNAS VM instance for basic file...

www.ixsystems.com

ECC vs non-ECC RAM and ZFS

I've seen many people unfortunately lose their zpools over this topic, so I'm going to try to provide as much detail as possible. If you don't want to read to the end then just go with ECC RAM. For those of you that want to understand just how destructive non-ECC RAM can be, then I'd encourage...

www.ixsystems.com

Saying "rethink your hardware" is just ignorant. Do you know how many thousands of dollars I have invested in this machine already?

No more ignorant than thinking hardware assembled for one purpose will be good for another purpose. The amount you spent is irrelevant.
A six-figure sports car is pretty useless compared to a cheap pickup truck when you need to move furniture.

So with that said, what would be a REASONABLE solution?

Read the FreeNAS user manual and forum stickies. There's a lot more than I linked covering recommended NICs, HBAs and much much more.

You may be able to fight with your current hardware to get it to work. You will not be able to get it to work with any assurance of data integrity due to lack of ECC. Virtualizing FreeNAS is just icing on that cake.

 

[Big Ry]

FreeNAS user guide: https://www.ixsystems.com/documentation/FreeNAS/11.3-U3.2/intro.html#ram
It mentioned 8GB RAM minimum, plus 1 GB/ TB of disk space. 8+24=32 for FreeNAS, not the host. FreeNAS needs 32GB.
It also recommends ECC RAM, and links to more reading material on the subject.
re: speed, https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-8700-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html
DDR4-2666. Not 3000.
Forum stickies about what I mentioned:

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...ide-to-not-completely-losing-your-data.12714/

ECC vs non-ECC RAM and ZFS

I've seen many people unfortunately lose their zpools over this topic, so I'm going to try to provide as much detail as possible. If you don't want to read to the end then just go with ECC RAM. For those of you that want to understand just how destructive non-ECC RAM can be, then I'd encourage...

www.ixsystems.com

No more ignorant than thinking hardware assembled for one purpose will be good for another purpose. The amount you spent is irrelevant.
A six-figure sports car is pretty useless compared to a cheap pickup truck when you need to move furniture.


Read the FreeNAS user manual and forum stickies. There's a lot more than I linked covering recommended NICs, HBAs and much much more.

You may be able to fight with your current hardware to get it to work. You will not be able to get it to work with any assurance of data integrity due to lack of ECC. Virtualizing FreeNAS is just icing on that cake.

32gb ram dedicated to simple storage device management is laughable. Talk about a resource hog. You realize that this "rule" is pushing the limits of what's even available on the consumer market right? I mean, you're basing that calculation on my simple 24TB useable storage in raid Z, which is relatively small. Do you really expect people to dish out top dollar for the most expensive ram kits on the market... Just to run a raid 5 configuration? Don't you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Nevermind the fact that you're also saying specialty ram is required, which costs God knows how much more.

Despite the fact that there's info on this forum and elsewhere that contradicts some of what you're claiming about virtualization and data integrity, you still seem fixated on this idealized situation where you design and build a dedicated FreeNAS machine that is never changing and runs on bleeding edge hardware. That's not realistic, that's not practical, and I'm sure very very few people are actually foolish enough to do that. The amount of money you'd need to spend on equipment to meet these supposed hardware specifications could be used to build are may more advanced and way more flexible server for handling NAS and thensome. Hell, I could run my existing drives in Drivepool with duplication AND provide off-site backup, all for less money than would be needed to build this FreeNAS server you describe. Those unrealistically high hardware requirements make FreeNAS useless as a storage solution... Unless you just got tons of money to piss away for no reason...

 

[Samuel Tai]

Have you consulted the official FreeNAS Guide, Section 2.6?

FreeNAS® can be run inside a virtual environment for development, experimentation, and educational purposes. Note that running FreeNAS® in production as a virtual machine is not recommended. When using FreeNAS® within a virtual environment, read this post first as it contains useful guidelines for minimizing the risk of losing data.​

​

To install or run FreeNAS® within a virtual environment, create a virtual machine that meets these minimum requirements:​

• at least 8192 MiB (8 GiB) base memory size
• a virtual disk at least 8 GiB in size to hold the operating system and boot environments
• at least one additional virtual disk at least 4 GiB in size to be used as data storage
• a bridged network adapter

We don't make these recommendations to antagonize you, but to dissuade you from a questionable technical path. Too many members have lost data when their virtual setups silently failed. FreeNAS is intended to run on bare metal. The resource limits are dictated by OpenZFS.

You may have more success running OpenZFS for Windows directly on your hardware. (Note, in your setup, you won't be able to mount the FreeNAS dedicated disks in Windows, as Windows doesn't natively have a ZFS driver.) Or perhaps, native Storage Spaces will do what you want.

A realistic FreeNAS server for home usage can be cobbled together for under $2k. See mine in my signature.

 

[kiriak]

@Big Ry

FreeNAS useless?
I'm conviced it is the best solution for me since data integrity on the long run is my main interest.

I am a home user and I found I can have a FreeNAS with 2-5 HDDs in the same price range as a 2-5 disk Synology or Qnap , or even cheaper if you consider the better hardware with FreeNAS.
It can be in many forms, like a used Dell or HP entry level server or workstation (like Z420 for about 250 € with 32 gb ECC ddr3 RAM) or a new HP microserver gen 10 plus, for about 650 € with the TAM expanded to 16 gb initially).
Other people build their own hardware.
Of course if you have a ton of data, you need more money, but this happens everywhere.

In your case maybe there are better alternatives,
but this doesn't make FreeNAS useless or for fools that have money to throw away.

 

[Samuel Tai]

wrong post, sorry

There's a delete option at the bottom of your posts. You can withdraw erroneous posts.

 

[Big Ry]

Have you consulted the official FreeNAS Guide, Section 2.6?

FreeNAS® can be run inside a virtual environment for development, experimentation, and educational purposes. Note that running FreeNAS® in production as a virtual machine is not recommended. When using FreeNAS® within a virtual environment, read this post first as it contains useful guidelines for minimizing the risk of losing data.​

​

To install or run FreeNAS® within a virtual environment, create a virtual machine that meets these minimum requirements:​

• at least 8192 MiB (8 GiB) base memory size
• a virtual disk at least 8 GiB in size to hold the operating system and boot environments
• at least one additional virtual disk at least 4 GiB in size to be used as data storage
• a bridged network adapter

We don't make these recommendations to antagonize you, but to dissuade you from a questionable technical path. Too many members have lost data when their virtual setups silently failed. FreeNAS is intended to run on bare metal. The resource limits are dictated by OpenZFS.

You may have more success running OpenZFS for Windows directly on your hardware. (Note, in your setup, you won't be able to mount the FreeNAS dedicated disks in Windows, as Windows doesn't natively have a ZFS driver.) Or perhaps, native Storage Spaces will do what you want.

A realistic FreeNAS server for home usage can be cobbled together for under $2k. See mine in my signature.

Yes, I did read that article you linked. That article, plus another related to small scale installations imply that it is possible to visualize FreeNAS without issue. That's one of the reasons I even tried in the first place. The contradicts what is being said now in this thread.

It sounds like FreeNAS isn't ready for mainstream. There are plenty of other solutions out there that do not have astronomically high hardware requirements or strict limitations on operating environments. I was led to believe FreeNAS was the best solution, but I don't think this sounds like any solution at all. To "cobble together" a FreeNAS server for $2k is not something anyone should ever be subjected to. That's a sign of inefficient coding.

I'm aware of storage spaces as a windows solution, it just doesn't have the best reputation. But honestly, it now looks much more attractive and practical than FreeNAS. I don't have thousands to throw away on NAS storage, nor should I be expected to.

 

[danb35]

32gb ram dedicated to simple storage device management is laughable.

It is what it is. And just like facts, FreeNAS doesn't care about your feelings. If you set it up properly, on server-grade hardware, with adequate resources (all of which are well documented), it will likely be a very solid and stable storage solution. If you decide to do your own thing, as you're doing, it may work well for a while, but stands a much greater chance of eating your data at some point. If its requirements aren't consistent with how you want to run it, I'd recommend either (1) change how you're running it, or (2) consider a different NAS OS.

 

[Big Ry]

@Big Ry

FreeNAS useless?
I'm conviced it is the best solution for me since data integrity on the long run is my main interest.

I am a home user and I found I can have a FreeNAS with 2-5 HDDs in the same price range as a 2-5 disk Synology or Qnap , or even cheaper if you consider the better hardware with FreeNAS.
It can be in many forms, like a used Dell or HP entry level server or workstation (like Z420 for about 250 € with 32 gb ECC ddr3 RAM) or a new HP microserver gen 10 plus, for about 650 € with the TAM expanded to 16 gb initially).
Other people build their own hardware.
Of course if you have a ton of data, you need more money, but this happens everywhere.

In your case maybe there are better alternatives,
but this doesn't make FreeNAS useless or for fools that have money to throw away.

But that's exactly what you're saying. You're talking about dropping $1k on used equipment just to get a small NAS. You could get so much more for that money.

 

[Big Ry]

It is what it is. And just like facts, FreeNAS doesn't care about your feelings. If you set it up properly, on server-grade hardware, with adequate resources (all of which are well documented), it will likely be a very solid and stable storage solution. If you decide to do your own thing, as you're doing, it may work well for a while, but stands a much greater chance of eating your data at some point. If its requirements aren't consistent with how you want to run it, I'd recommend either (1) change how you're running it, or (2) consider a different NAS OS.

It sounds like everyone here is drinking from the same punch bowl. Data integrity is a non-issue when you have backups, which can be had for much less money than is being proposed here for a simple nas server. Do you not realize how much money is being pissed away, for no reason, over building a FreeNAS server? You're not gaining anything except convenience. It's no more safe than mirroring with backup, actually it's probably less safe... And costs more. Makes zero sense.

 

[danb35]

Have it your way. *plonk*

 

[Samuel Tai]

Others here have tried to virtualize on Hyper-V, and rued their hypervisor selection afterwards. FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD, and only recently has Hyper-V support for FreeBSD stabilized.

For your purposes, have you considered a Linux NAS option, like OpenMediaVault or EasyNAS or UnRAID? You'll have more success running it virtually in Hyper-V.

Backups by themselves aren't sufficient for data integrity. How do you know you're not backing up bad or corrupted data? What if the backups themselves accrue bit rot?

 

[kiriak]

But that's exactly what you're saying. You're talking about dropping $1k on used equipment just to get a small NAS. You could get so much more for that money.

I bought my 2 disk Synology for 360 € (a mid priced model) plus disks
The used Z420 (with better CPU and far more RAM) would cost me 250 € plus disks
The new Microserver 10 plus would cost me 650 plus disks, but with more RAM, better CPU, more disks capacity, more NICS etc.

I cannot see any significant price difference.

I could have a very cheap NUC with an internal 2.5 HDD and OMV,
how much money could it be cheaper from the z420 FreeNAS solution? 50 euros? 100?

 

[Big Ry]

Others here have tried to virtualize on Hyper-V, and rued their hypervisor selection afterwards. FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD, and only recently has Hyper-V support for FreeBSD stabilized.

For your purposes, have you considered a Linux NAS option, like OpenMediaVault or EasyNAS or UnRAID? You'll have more success running it virtually in Hyper-V.

Backups by themselves aren't sufficient for data integrity. How do you know you're not backing up bad or corrupted data? What if the backups themselves accrue bit rot?

Unraid VM was also a choice i was considering, but i was convinced that FreeNAS was better. It seems like that was incorrect.

You can play the 'what if' game all you want with data, but if you setup a mirror and backup from the get go, there's very little chance all of your data will be corrupt. That's just statistically highly unlikely. Not to mention, this is Plex server... I'm not storing classified material here. If I were to actually lose all my data, it's just movies and TV shows. They don't need to be under armed guard. Sure, it'll suck, but it isn't the end of the world and it is already very unlikely to happen.

 

[Samuel Tai]

You can play the 'what if' game all you want with data, but if you setup a mirror and backup from the get go, there's very little chance all of your data will be corrupt.

That's not true. I've actually seen it happen in just this setup at work twice over my career. But since you've already made the risk determination that having this particular set of data corrupted isn't a big deal, feel free to proceed as you think best. We've all been bitten by data loss, and we're trying to prevent your data loss before it happens. Just be mindful of scope creep, once you do have a working NAS, as it's very natural to forget the original scope, and to toss more critical data into the NAS over time.

 

[Big Ry]

That's not true. I've actually seen it happen in just this setup at work twice over my career. But since you've already made the risk determination that having this particular set of data corrupted isn't a big deal, feel free to proceed as you think best. We've all been bitten by data loss, and we're trying to prevent your data loss before it happens. Just be mindful of scope creep, once you do have a working NAS, as it's very natural to forget the original scope, and to toss more critical data into the NAS over time.

Well i don't know how long you've been in your career or what kind of servers you're even referring to, but i highly doubt the risks are so high in my case that it could ever justify such i high expense. This is only storing video and audio, it will never store critical data. All my most important data is backed up in the cloud. I've yet to experience bit rot in any drive in my 20 years of owning computers. Not saying it can't happen, and I understand the increased risk of large stage devices (which is why i bought WD Gold helium drives which rank at the top for reliability), but there's just no justification for tossing hundreds to thousands at this. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

[Big Ry]

This was just brought to my attention:

TrueNAS enables Container Storage and Kubernetes

The Democratic CSI driver integrates ZFS and TrueNAS into the Kubernetes environment and other container management platforms.

www.ixsystems.com

This article, written by a senior engineer at iXsystems, seems to contradict the narrative being pushed on this forum. Not only does he say running FreeNAS as a VM is fine, he even says using hyper-v is totally acceptable. Furthermore, the hardware specs he recommends are identical to the hardware specs listed on the download page, which are at odds with the specs being claimed here. Maybe some of you just built your severs wrong?