Jails/Plugins or Containers?

[Ryan Allen]

Ok, so I know there is talk about both Jails/Plugins and Containers but I haven't really found anything while scouring the Forums or Interwebs (that I could really understand at least) that talked about how to decide which way to go when FN11.X comes out with containers? I am currently using Corral and plan to hold out until FN11.X get more features to better match up with Corral.

So, my question is, do I start off with switching from Containers (using it now for Plex and Resilio only) back to Jails or do I continue with Containers when I make the switch to FN11.X?

I'm really not sure if there will be a performance different b/t jails and containers or if Jails/Plugins will slowly be phased out and go solely to containers and VM's? I have read that running Plex in a container (b/c it is several layers deep: FreeNAS - VM - Container - Plex... but I may be very wrong with thought...) runs slower (less transcodes able to be simultaneously done) when compared to running it in a Jail. Any truth to that?

Let me know your thoughts guy! Thanks in advance!!

 

[Allan Wilmath]

I am sticking with Corral, I like it a lot and it has been working better for me when it comes to Plex than the jail system.

The jail system is sort of like the docker system for linux. Docker on FreeNAS will have to have a Linux vm as a result. Just like it does in Corral. Jails and Docker are basically containers, and are designed to offer greater security, but still run on the computer.

VMs are a little better for isolation, but insure a performance penalty. I think it is rather small. I'm doing fine virtualizing FreeNAS, so I'm using two layers of virtualization for Plex.

 

[Jailer]

There's arguments for and against for both strategies. There's and additional layer of complexity and a slight performance hit with Docker due to it being run in a VM since Docker is not natively supported by FreeBSD. Jails have a performance advantage of shared resources with the host but a runaway process in a jail can render the host unresponsive.

Basically it's down to personal choice. I prefer jails. Many prefer Docker. You'll have to decide what works best for you.

 

[KrisBee]

Corral let the docker genie out of the bottle, but whether embedding Linux tech in FreeNAS is a sustainable solution remains to be seen. In Corral, a custom boot2docker image was used with v9fs, whatever is used in a future FreeNAS 11 it will probably depend on NFS shares to give docker containers access to the base zpool. There can be ACL problems after creating linux VM + docker setup:

https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ding-freenas-corral.53502/page-15#post-371294

I think for a lot of people, plex performance will be a deciding factor in the choice between docker or jail.

But however convenient docker may be, it's not all plain sailing for those who chase the whale. Now the money men have got there hands on the tech, we are seeing the split between open source version and paid versions, and confused re-branding leaving folk wondering what's next.

In trying to be all things to all people, it's a concern that FreeNAS may spread their resources too thinly in an attempt to cover all the angles and adopt shiny new versions of all those "cool" things.

I'd perfer to see concentration on core features based on FreeBSD tech. Even with jails they have adopted the latest py3-iocage which is described on github as: "This is beta quality software, there be dragons! Please report them."

 

[Ryan Allen]

Great info guys! Thanks. As I pretty much thought, this will not be a clear cut answer. I want better performance and I know jails are VERY easy to set up, so I may stick with them. I just don't want to get all comfy and cozy again with FN11 and start using Jails just to find out that FN is switching gears and will start to pull support for Jails/Plugins.

Lastly, is it easy to take the metadata and setting from Plex Docker to a Plex Jail or do I need to start all over? Just wondering.
Last Lastly, how would one "Backup" a jail (in this case Plex) and be able to move it to another system?

Thanks!

 

[Jailer]

You should be able to save your database and metadata. Now where it's located in a Docker container I have no clue.

Setting Plex up in a jail for disaster recovery is simple, store your database and metadata in a mounted dataset. The databse is located at /var/db/plexdata and use that as your mount point and it will be stored externally.

https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/1249691/#Comment_1249691

 

[Ryan Allen]

Small update... I have been playing around on my old FN rig that is running FN11rc (I'm new one is still running Corral) and I now have Plex & PlexPy running in their own Jails! It was overall pretty darn easy! I may end up just keeping everything in Jails/Plugins but now I just worry about the things I don't know like things I MAY be missing with Containers or will Jails go away and Containers take over? I guess I could always flip back, just don't want to flip and flop back and form on my Production rig.... I'm already worried about going from Corral to FN11.X!!! I know.. I know.. "My data is safe".. But still...

So.. for now, I think I may stick to this route unless someone convinces me there's more to going the "Container Path" then I currently am aware of. I really REALLY want to have a FAST and RELIABLE NAS/Plex Server!

PS.. to all of you guys that put up with people like me asking questions like this... THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH! I have been on the FreeNAS wagon for only 1.5 Years or so and have found GREAT support along the way! That was just on my mind and thought you guys all should know it!

 

[Jailer]

About the biggest thing containers bring is apps that aren't available or don't run on FreeBSD. At least that's my take on it. I've only played just a bit with them but I'll stick to jails to do what I need.

 

[Ryan Allen]

That's good to know! I'll keep that one in mind! I'm only using Plex, PlexPy, & Resilio. All of which can run from Jails! The only thing I may run in a Container is a Unifi Controller. Haven't see that one in a Jail just yet. I REALLY love how easy Jails are to set up! I did all (3) of them in about 1 hour!! Setting up containers took WAY WAY longer! Try a few DAYS of messing around to get them working!

 

[Jailer]

The only thing I may run in a Container is a Unifi Controller.

Perfect example of a good use for a container and precisely what I had in mind when I replied before. Simple program that doesn't need maintenance and won't run on FreeBSD....reliably.

 

[ChrisNAS]

There's arguments for and against for both strategies. There's and additional layer of complexity and a slight performance hit with Docker due to it being run in a VM since Docker is not natively supported by FreeBSD. Jails have a performance advantage of shared resources with the host but a runaway process in a jail can render the host unresponsive.

Basically it's down to personal choice. I prefer jails. Many prefer Docker. You'll have to decide what works best for you.

Totally new to all this, but when you say docker is not natively supported by FreeBSD, is that different from what is being talked about here?:
http://www.freenas.org/blog/docker-done-right/

 

[Jailer]

There's no native OS level support for docker. Docker is being implemented in FreeNAS via a lightweight VM. So you have host(FreeNAS)->VM->docker host->container.

 

[ddimick]

There's no native OS level support for docker. Docker is being implemented in FreeNAS via a lightweight VM. So you have host(FreeNAS)->VM->docker host->container.

FreeBSD 11 has experimental native Docker support using the Linux compatibility layer instead of a VM. https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker

 

[Jailer]

But that would entail adding it to the base FreeNAS OS which is not recommended. Until iX gets this baked in your best bet is still a VM.