DDR5 with inline ECC?

[stand]

Hi all,

I am planning a new build based on Alder Lake (when Truenas SCALE support for it comes).

I am researching DDR5 ECC R/UDIMM RAM but I cannot seem to find any. All of the DDR5 RAM currently on the market is consumer grade and only has on die ECC.

Am I too early? Are there any server grade DDR5 RAM modules for sale currently?

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

Not yet
Alder/Raptor Lake with W680 & DDR5 ECC would be a nice combination

 

[Etorix]

A NAS does not need the latest and greatest hardware. Look at previous generations—and happily forgot about support for hybrid architecture or Unobtainium DDR5 ECC.

 

[stand]

A NAS does not need the latest and greatest hardware. Look at previous generations—and happily forgot about support for hybrid architecture or Unobtainium DDR5 ECC.

I would say this is stating the obvious. A NAS may not NEED latest and greatest hardware, but I WANT latest and greatest hardware for my new build. Plus, in the future, I am also planning to have several virtual machines on it, some of them with GPU passtroughs for gaming, so future proofing is important.

 

[Etorix]

"Want" is your own business then.
If you intend to run several VMs with passthrough, you may want to consider Xeon Scalable or EPYC for the number of cores. These are "great" in their own ways, and being one or two generations older than desktop parts comes with extensive field testing, and hence future proofing.

 

[Ericloewe]

It's going to be a while. The Supermicro X12 line is still borderline unobtainium. X13 stuff is beginning to show up on catalogues, but mostly/exclusively glorified desktop boards without ECC support.

 

[rvassar]

DDR5 with ECC is likely coupled to the Intel Sapphire Rapids delay, so the volume production might not be there yet.

Toms's Article

That said... There's some crazy stuff in the pipeline...

Sapphire Rapids HBM

Imagine having a 64Gb server with no DIMMs installed!

 

[Etorix]

DDR5 ECC exists… at least in displays:

SK hynix Shows Non-Binary DDR5 Capacities at Intel Innovation 2022

At Intel Innovation 2022, SK hynix showed non-binary DDR5 capacities designed for next-generation server RDIMMs

www.servethehome.com

 

[Davvo]

As a side note, are you sure it's savvy in the long run to use such power-hungry CPUs?

 

[Etorix]

What matters for a NAS is the power draw at idle, not the TDP (which is essentially meaningless these days, especially for Intel).
Of course if the CPU is busy most of the time running high power jails/VMs/containers, power draw will be significant, but then it is assumed that the computing power is needed and that the corresponding power bill is accounted for.

 

[stand]

This is going to be my primary NAS, but it is still a hobby and not a critical system, so downtime is acceptable and tinkering is assumed. Where I live the electricity is crazy expensive, especially since the war in Ukraine, so my primary goal is to build a power efficient system.

For now I will be running most if not all of the services in a kubernetes cluster. But I may decide to spin up a few virtual machines with external GPU passtroughs in the future, so I want to future proof as much as possible.

Currently I am looking at Alder Lake i9 12900T or the upcoming Raptor Lake 13900T. Primarily due to them being low power (TDP 35W-106W for Alder Lake at least) and the iGPU, which would be more than enough for my transcoding needs.

For motherboard I am currently looking at the Supermicro X13SAE-F (W680 chipset) but may switch if I find something better.

The only problem was the DDR5 with ECC. However, I recently found this Micron DDR5 ECC DIMM.

That being said, the stable Truenas Bluefin release which I need for Alder Lake support is still at least a few months away, so I am not in a hurry to buy the parts just yet.

 

[Etorix]

Currently I am looking at Alder Lake i9 12900T or the upcoming Raptor Lake 13900T. Primarily due to them being low power (TDP 35W-106W for Alder Lake at least)

Which is a fallacy because a NAS is mostly idle, but when it does ramp up a "non-T" CPU would ramp higher, complete its task faster, go back to idle faster and would likely end up using LESS power overall.
Save some money and go for regular parts, preferably of an older generation, and quite possibly lower in the stack. (A Core i9 in a NAS? unless running lots of apps on top of NAS duties, that's massive overkill. Up to Coffee Lake, the ECC-capable Core i3 parts were the recommendation for home builds.)

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

The only problem was the DDR5 with ECC. However, I recently found this Micron DDR5 ECC DIMM.

Nice find: first DDR5 UDIMM with ECC listed.

Supermicro X13, or the new AM5 boards, like Gigabyte LC13
get interesting for server builds

 

[stand]

Which is a fallacy because a NAS is mostly idle, but when it does ramp up a "non-T" CPU would ramp higher, complete its task faster, go back to idle faster and would likely end up using LESS power overall.
Save some money and go for regular parts, preferably of an older generation, and quite possibly lower in the stack. (A Core i9 in a NAS? unless running lots of apps on top of NAS duties, that's massive overkill. Up to Coffee Lake, the ECC-capable Core i3 parts were the recommendation for home builds.)

Interesting theory. I suppose that is assuming T and non T versions idle at the same power draw levels and that performance increases non linearly with power consumption?

Do you have empirical data to confirm this? I would be very interested to see an averaged power draw comparison between a T and non T version of the same CPU.

Regarding the i3 CPUs - to be honest, I am trying to stay away from budget level CPUs. I prefer to spend a bit more money and know that I would not need to upgrade for at least 4-5 years, rather than saving a hundred bucks and then upgrade every 2-3 years.

I have also considerd going the Xeon route, but decided against it because the i9 is cheaper than 1-2 generations older Xeon CPUs, which are also more power hungry and not much (if at all) faster. Not to mention that most of them do not have iGPUs, meaning I would need to buy an external GPU for transcoding, which means more money and more power.

Nice find: first DDR5 UDIMM with ECC listed.

Supermicro X13, or the new AM5 boards, like Gigabyte LC13
get interesting for server builds

I did consider AMD, especially their 35W ryzen 5750GE. Decided against it because of 3 reasons:
1. It was about 150 bucks less than the 12900T, but also about 2/3 of the performance.
2. AMD APUs perform significantly worse at transcoding compared to Intel iGPUs
3. Uses EOL last gen DDR4 memory.

I can however reconsider if there is something better from the new 7000 series?

 

[Davvo]

DDR4 is not yet EOL.

 

[stand]

DDR4 is not yet EOL.

Not yet but it has been replaced. Only a matter of time. Plus why settle for last gen when you can get DDR5

 

[Davvo]

Not yet but it has been replaced. Only a matter of time. Plus why settle for last gen when you can get DDR5

Because it's more stable and cheaper.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

W680 with DDR5 ECC and Raptor Lake CPU will be a great package for people with transcoding and high core needs

Gigabyte also brought a W680 with DDR4

If no transcoding needs: Asrock Rack AM4, or the new AM5 Mainboards (LC13, or others in the future)

DDR5 and W680 and AM5 are all very new, only a few offers out there and much more expensive…

Older platforms, with great bang for the buck:
Supermicro with i3 9100, or E5 26xx v3/v4 series

 

[stand]

I see what you are saying but I wouldn't want to go the DDR4 route at this point. It's not like DDR5 is unusable. And even if it is somewhat less stable than DDR4, it will only get better with time. If I was building something from spare parts I have lying around I wouldn't mind going with what I have and saving a buck. But since I will be buying everything anyway I might as well go straight to next gen.

Initially I will be putting only 2x32GB DIMM modules, so assuming the MBs are around the same the price - difference with DDR4 is going to be at best a 100-150 bucks.


Overall 12900T/13900T + Supermicro X13SAE-F + 64GB Micron DDR5 ECC is going to cost me about 1300-1500 bucks. True, not the cheapest, but still reasonabe (from my point of view anyway) considering it will not need to be replaced in the next 5+ years

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

T Models are only helpful at full load - I would go 13700K, which is a 12900 in terms of core count…
It’s basically TDP Limiter built in -I like to have the choice

X13SAE-F looks great (2x2.5GBit would have been nice), but in terms of future: Raptor Lake will be the last CPU generation for socket 1700, but sure DDR5 will last longer.
Anyhow: happy that DDR5 ECC and W680 is finally there and someone tries it for TrueNAS - good luck and fingers crossed