TrueNAS on system without ECC RAM vs other NAS OS

[consideringTrueNAS]

Hi, I am considering to make a TrueNAS system. I don't mind paying for ECC RAM but motherboards that take ECC RAM are large. If I buy a system running TrueNAS without ECC RAM, is it still reliable and secure? Is it better to user other NAS OS such as OpenMediaVault?

 

[Arwen]

In my opinion, if you care about your data, intend for the NAS to be up 24x365, last for >4 years, then ECC is highly recommended.

ZFS is like any other file systems, send corrupt data to the disks, and you have corruption that can't be fixed. People say "But, wait, I can FSCK my EXT3 file system". Sure you can, and it will likeky remove the corruption and any data associated with that corruption. That's data loss.

However, with ZFS you can't "fix" a corrupt pool. It has to be rebuilt from scratch, and likely restored from backups. So, some people consider that too extreme and use ECC. Or don't use ZFS.


All that said. ZFS does do something that other file systems don't. In addition to any redundancy, (RAID-Zx or Mirroring), ZFS stores 2 copies of metadata and 3 copies of critical metadata. That means if 1 block of metadata is both corrupt AND that ZFS can detect that corruption, (no certainty), ZFS will use another copy of metadata. Then fix the broken metadata block(s).

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

Thank you. I don't plan to run the NAS 24x365 but I care about my data and intend to use it for >4 years.

I have checked some motherboards and mini computers. It seems that if I want to use ECC, I have to go for workstation class motherboard which is not small. I already have a large tower in a small room. As I am very sensitive to noise, I probably use 2.5" SATA SSD and/or NVMe SSD with occasional use of HDD. I probably just turn it on when I need it.

 

[Arwen]

There are server class motherboards, both Intel and AMD, that are Mini-ITX or Micro-ATX. For example ASRock Rack has a filter here where you can select board size;

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/products.asp#Server

Of course, I don't know how much they cost, nor what features you are looking for.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

Thanks. Looks like these server class motherboards and CPUs are very expensive and difficult to get.

 

[Ianm_ozzy]

Thanks. Looks like these server class motherboards and CPUs are very expensive and difficult to get.

Oh yes. Totally agree.
I had some hardware already, specifically a CPU & motherboard. I needed memory to use as a server. No ECC support on motherboard.

The 'Server' hardware was impossible to find locally. Only internationally and very very expensive. The delivery situation is highly dubious. Also in terms of CPU power, were not good enough.
I depends on what you are doing. For me it is a home server & truenas is just one of the virtual machines. I use. Oh and of course all data is backed up regularly.

If it is for maybe professional work you may or may not claim against tax, then probably a good idea paying for more modern server equipment - where you have a warranty. This will be on the expensive side though.

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

Supermicro's A2SDi series fit the bill, are Mini-ITX form factor, and take up to 256 GB of ECC memory. Combined with a SC721TQ-250B chassis you get a small whisper quiet system. See my signature for suggestions. The boards come with 2, 4, 8, 12 cores depending on your needs and budget.

 

[ChrisRJ]

I depends on what you are doing.

Agreed. There is one thing that many people mention, which I think is wrong (you didn't say that, I know). Their argument is that it is home server and therefore not business critical. I like to point out that often this view is actually wrong. Because most people consider photos of their family as something they (and/or their spouse) would hate to loose. There you have business criticality.

For me it is a home server & truenas is just one of the virtual machines.

ZFS has some specific requirements when run in a VM. Please check out

"Absolutely must virtualize FreeNAS!" ... a guide to not completely losing your data.

[---- 2018/02/27: This is still as relevant as ever. As PCIe-Passthru has matured, fewer problems are reported. I've updated some specific things known to be problematic ----] [---- 2014/12/24: Note, there is another post discussing how to deploy a small FreeNAS VM instance for basic file...

www.truenas.com

Oh and of course all data is backed up regularly.

Glad to hear that.

If it is for maybe professional work you may or may not claim against tax, then probably a good idea paying for more modern server equipment - where you have a warranty. This will be on the expensive side though.

Is used server gear available? Prices seem to have gone up there over the last 2.5 years, but at least back in 2020 I was able to make a few bargain deals.

 

[Davvo]

Explore the used market.

 

[Etorix]

Is it better to user other NAS OS such as OpenMediaVault?

OMV will benefit from ECC RAM, and generally from server-grade hardware, just like TrueNAS or XigmaNAS. No decisive factor here.

As I am very sensitive to noise, I probably use 2.5" SATA SSD and/or NVMe SSD with occasional use of HDD. I probably just turn it on when I need it.

Floor noise essentially depends on the number of spinning drives. If you may do with a small number of (possibly large) HDDs, or even with an all SSD pool, you can have a NAS that is quiet enough to be left running 24/7.

As for server-grade motherboards, there are many socketed micro-ATX options

• C236/C246 chipset boards with corresponding Skylake/Coffee Lake Core i3 (ECC capable) or Xeon E3v5/6 / E-2100/2200 (Supermicro X11SS_ / X11SC_ ranges);
• newer stuff with C256 or W480/W580 chipsets, but these will require a corresponding Xeon E-2300 / W-1200/1300 and teh corresponding "Xeon tax";
• AsRockRack X470D4U, X570D4U, B550D4U server boards for Ryzen CPUs;

and embedded solutions in mini-ITX size, using cheaper RDIMM

• Atom C3000 boards (Supermicro A2SDi), as mentioned by @Patrick M. Hausen — expensive, but low power and up to 12 SATA ports on-board makes for a great little NAS;
• Xeon D-1500 boards (Supermicro X10SDV) — old, but still good if one can find one second-hand/refurbished.

 

[Whattteva]

Hi, I am considering to make a TrueNAS system. I don't mind paying for ECC RAM but motherboards that take ECC RAM are large. If I buy a system running TrueNAS without ECC RAM, is it still reliable and secure? Is it better to user other NAS OS such as OpenMediaVault?

ECC RAM will confer benefits in data integrity regardless of what OS you run. We just emphasize it for TrueNAS more because it highly complements ZFS own checksums.

Thank you. I don't plan to run the NAS 24x365 but I care about my data and intend to use it for >4 years.

I have checked some motherboards and mini computers. It seems that if I want to use ECC, I have to go for workstation class motherboard which is not small. I already have a large tower in a small room. As I am very sensitive to noise, I probably use 2.5" SATA SSD and/or NVMe SSD with occasional use of HDD. I probably just turn it on when I need it.

My system runs 4x 3.5" HDD and I can't hear anything. It's so silent that I run it in my bedroom. A big part of noise control also depends on your case selection. Mine has a bunch of noise dampening and it's also massive so there's plenty of room to put things and leaving air gaps in between so I don't need to spin the fans at max speeds. Also, favor bigger fans. They generate more airflow than smaller fans at the same rpm, making them a lot more efficient and much quieter.

Thanks. Looks like these server class motherboards and CPUs are very expensive and difficult to get.

Look into the used market. Don't buy new, it's a waste of money in my opinion. My primary system in my signature is almost all used.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

Supermicro's A2SDi series fit the bill, are Mini-ITX form factor, and take up to 256 GB of ECC memory. Combined with a SC721TQ-250B chassis you get a small whisper quiet system. See my signature for suggestions. The boards come with 2, 4, 8, 12 cores depending on your needs and budget.

Thanks. That looks like a very good system. Problem is I cannot find Intel Atom C3558. I don't use eBay nor buy used components.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

Oh yes. Totally agree.
I had some hardware already, specifically a CPU & motherboard. I needed memory to use as a server. No ECC support on motherboard.

The 'Server' hardware was impossible to find locally. Only internationally and very very expensive. The delivery situation is highly dubious. Also in terms of CPU power, were not good enough.
I depends on what you are doing. For me it is a home server & truenas is just one of the virtual machines. I use. Oh and of course all data is backed up regularly.

If it is for maybe professional work you may or may not claim against tax, then probably a good idea paying for more modern server equipment - where you have a warranty. This will be on the expensive side though.

Also, any motherboard with built-in 10GbE port(s) from major brands are not available from reputable online stores. They are being sold by nameless or 3rd party resellers with bad reputation, at inflated prices.

ECC RAM modules are only a bit more expensive than non ECC RAM. I can afford to buy ECC RAM. However, getting the motherboard and CPU from reliable sellers is a major problem.

Speaking of 10GbE port, is it better to get one built-in the motherboard or fine with an external USB 3 or Thunderbolt one? I think Thunderbolt is not supported in TrueNAS? In the former case, is any motherboard with Intel 10GbE fine? I think somebody said Realtech ones have problems?

 

[Etorix]

Not knowing where you are, we cannot help you find a local reseller, but Supermicro A2SDi boards, or complete systems, are typically available from very reliable resellers.
ECC RDIMM, which Atom C3000 can use, is actually cheaper than ECC UDIMM—especially refurbished RAM, since you'd be looking for relatively old DDR4-2400. (If this is a professional system, there are professional IT recyclers which can sell you "clean pull" refurbished RDIMM with VAT invoice and all.)

As for 10 GbE, it should come on-board or from an Intel/Chelsio/Solarflare NIC in a PCIe slot. No fancy USB adapter, no Thunderbolt at all, and preferably no Aquantia NIC.

10 Gig Networking Primer

This is a discussion of high speed networking for newcomers, with specific emphasis on practical small- to medium-scale deployments for home labs or small office users. It originated with a forum thread located here that has many pages of...

www.truenas.com

10GBase-T: Best to avoid it if you can

I recently wrote a resource on high speed network performance tuning, and in it, I commented "Do not try to use copper 10GBase-T". @Elliot Dierksen asked about this, and I cranked out a pretty comprehensive post on the topic. Here it is in...

www.truenas.com

 

[Whattteva]

I don't use eBay nor buy used components.

I'm not sure what the rationale is behind this, but you're missing out on a lot, especially on server-grade components. I can understand this sentiment for consumer-grade stuff, but enterprise-grade stuff several years old still has a lot of life on them because they're built to last. Also, as you have already stated multiple times, buying server-grade stuff new is expensive. eBay (in my experience) also has very good buyer protection.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

OMV will benefit from ECC RAM, and generally from server-grade hardware, just like TrueNAS or XigmaNAS. No decisive factor here.


Floor noise essentially depends on the number of spinning drives. If you may do with a small number of (possibly large) HDDs, or even with an all SSD pool, you can have a NAS that is quiet enough to be left running 24/7.

As for server-grade motherboards, there are many socketed micro-ATX options

• C236/C246 chipset boards with corresponding Skylake/Coffee Lake Core i3 (ECC capable) or Xeon E3v5/6 / E-2100/2200 (Supermicro X11SS_ / X11SC_ ranges);
• newer stuff with C256 or W480/W580 chipsets, but these will require a corresponding Xeon E-2300 / W-1200/1300 and teh corresponding "Xeon tax";
• AsRockRack X470D4U, X570D4U, B550D4U server boards for Ryzen CPUs;

and embedded solutions in mini-ITX size, using cheaper RDIMM

• Atom C3000 boards (Supermicro A2SDi), as mentioned by @Patrick M. Hausen — expensive, but low power and up to 12 SATA ports on-board makes for a great little NAS;
• Xeon D-1500 boards (Supermicro X10SDV) — old, but still good if one can find one second-hand/refurbished.

I only use NVMe SSD on my DIY tower PC. It is dead silent.

For TrueNAS, are there disadvantages in using AMD CPU rather than Intel CPU?

I am in Canada. I can relax the size requirement given the difficulty in sourcing components.

 

[Davvo]

For TrueNAS, are there disadvantages in using AMD CPU rather than Intel CPU?

- higher energy consumption apparently due to issues with C states/eco mode
- lower share in the used market
- no official ECC support for non-pro CPUs.

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

- higher energy consumption apparently due to issues with C states/eco mode
- lower share in the used market
- no official ECC support for non-pro CPUs.

Thank you.

Will the higher energy consumption issue be fixed?
So if I go for AMD CPU, I better pick one with pro? Any good recommendation?

 

[consideringTrueNAS]

Hi, What is mean by "Support for ECC Un-buffered DIM 1Rx8/2Rx8 memory modules (operate in non-ECC mode)"?

Does that mean if I use such motherboard with ECC Un-buffered RAM, TrueNAS will still consider my system as one that uses non-ECC RAM?

 

[Redcoat]

Does that mean if I use such motherboard with ECC Un-buffered RAM, TrueNAS will still consider my system as one that uses non-ECC RAM?

With that particular RAM configuration: ECC Un-buffered DIM 1Rx8/2Rx8 memory modules ; it would appear so. I suggest that you ask the originator of the quote.