SUPERMICRO X10SLH-F: not for RMA accepted after 3 years, even if not EOL ?

[m00nraker]

Hi dear guys.

I'm a silent reader in this forum. But now I got into some trouble with my SUPERMICRO motherboard and I would appreciate your advice. Maybe I am looking for an alternative to my SUPERMICRO board.

System:
Supermicro X10SLH-F, Intel Xeon E3-1275L V3, 32GB ECC RAM, LSI SAS9300-8i SGL in IT-mode, Digital Devices Cine S2
2x 256GB Samsung 850 PRO SSD connected to the on-board SATA3 ports (SATA Raid in BIOS disabled), some HDD connected to the LSI

OS:
Proxmox 5.1 (KVM Hypervisor)
Virtual Guest: FreeNAS 11.1-U5, Univention UCS 4.3, Debian 9 with TVHeadend (for SAT-streaming)

Setup:
Proxmox is installed on the 2 SSDs, configured as a ZFS mirror set - Proxmox is using ZOL (zfs-on-linux). All virtual guests are also stored in this mirror. Some additionl HDDs are connected to the LSI-9300-8i HBA, which is PCI-passthroughed to the FreeNAS guest. The CINE S2 PCI-E card is PCI-passthroughed to the TVHeadend guest for SAT streaming.

FreeNAS as a virtual guest under Proxmox runs great here for 3 years. No trouble or destroyed pools, even in case of power-failure (no USV).

I'm using this configuration 24/7 since 01/2015 without any trouble. In the meentime I updated the system regularly, even the Bios or LSI-Firmware.

In the last weeks I realized, that there is an BIOS and IPMI update for the Supermicro X10SLH-F MBD. I updated the system via. a USB thumbdrive. BIOS update to Rev. 3.1 went well. IPMI update to Rev. 3.66 also went well, but after a reboot IPMI was not working anymore. IPMIcfg tool (SUERMICRO) can't connect to the BMC, no valid IPMI module found. BIOS says: IPMI not working. Flashing again is not possible. BMC heartbeat LED is green but not blinking. IPMI has no MAC address. So IPMI is bricked and X10SLH-F must go for RMA-service, because I think that the IPMI bootloader is destroyed and must be reflashed by the manufactor via a special serial link cable and/or special tools.
And now comes the worst thing: I removed the board from the chassis and removed all components. I mounted the plastic protection cap on the CPU socket and doing this I accidentally bent over some CPU pins (about 10 in one edge). The pins should be fixed easily by the manufactor.

And here comes the trouble:

I filled out an RMA-request on supermicro.nl website with a problem description of the 2 issues (IPMI-Firmware and bended CPU pins). The Board was purchased in 01/2015. SUPERMICRO replied that the board is out-of-warranty and they could not accept it back for any RMA service, even if I would pay for it. I contacted a SUPERMICRO System-Integrator and Reseller in Germany and they made another RMA-request for me with the same result. They told me, that everything beyond 3 years will not be repaired by SUPERMICRO anymore. They suggested, I should buy a new SUPERMICRO board.

But the point is: On the SUPERMICRO website, the X10SLH-F motherboard is not marked as EOL (end-of-life). They write the X10SLH-F has 7-years life. But when the lifecycle is 7 years, why don't they offer any service beyond 3 years since purchase? That makes no sense. Some weeks ago they put some new BIOS and IPMI firmware files for this MBD on their website. But now they let their customers alone.

It should be very easy for the manufactor (SUPERMICRO) to reflash the IPMI Firmware and I would pay for it. Now I have to buy a new X10 MBD for a much hiher price than 3 years ago. The SLH-F is the only one for the LGA1150 which is not EOL. Switching over to X11-series would need a new CPU and new memory. Nogo.

To you:

Using a SUPERMICRO motherboard meens, that you are save for max. 3 years. After that you don't get any repair support. No matter if you pay for it. They bring out new Firmware files but if flashing doesn't go well and the board is older than 3 years, they say, f*** you, even if the product cycle is 7 years.

What do you think about this practice by SUPEMICRO?

Another question is: alternative for SUPERMICRO, maybe ASUS?

Buying another mainboard than the X10SLH-F from the X10 series is making no sense for me, because they are all end-of-life. Buying an X11 MBD also makes no sense, because CPU and memory can't be reused for it. So I am thinking to switch to another manufactor like ASUS or ASROCK. Is this an option? For example the ASUS P9D-M sounds interesting. But I have read that the IPMI over iKVM is buggy and not working well. And I also read here in the forum, that ASUS is not working as smooth with FreeNAS as SUPERMICRO boads do.

Is that right or is ASUS P9D-M or another brand a good alternative to SUPERMICRO? I need something with IPMI/IKVM.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Kai

 

[Chris Moore]

And now comes the worst thing: I removed the board from the chassis and removed all components. I mounted the plastic protection cap on the CPU socket and doing this I accidentally bent over some CPU pins (about 10 in one edge). The pins should be fixed easily by the manufactor.

They won't do it. Even if the board were otherwise in warranty, once you bend the CPU socket pins, they are done dealing with it. They won't even fix it if you paid them to.

But the point is: On the SUPERMICRO website, the X10SLH-F motherboard is not marked as EOL (end-of-life). They write the X10SLH-F has 7-years life. But when the lifecycle is 7 years, why don't they offer any service beyond 3 years since purchase?

The warranty period is 3 years, but that doesn't matter because you bent the pins.
I have been doing computer work professionally since 1996 and I was even a depo repair technician in a facility that repaired equipment for HP, Compaq (when it was a separate company), NEC, IBM, and another company I can't remember now... All of the big companies have had similar policies for as long as I have been doing this. If you have a computer and it is out of warranty, they will sell you a replacement system board for it, but most of them don't want anything to do with that busted board. Way back in the day, IBM would demand the old board be returned but they still charged for the replacement board.
I don't understand why you are having a problem with this?

That makes no sense. Some weeks ago they put some new BIOS and IPMI firmware files for this MBD on their website. But now they let their customers alone.

If the problem was just the firmware flash failing, they might take that back and fix it for you. That isn't the problem. You bent pins in the socket and they are not going to warranty that.

Using a SUPERMICRO motherboard meens, that you are save for max. 3 years. After that you don't get any repair support. No matter if you pay for it. They bring out new Firmware files but if flashing doesn't go well and the board is older than 3 years, they say, f*** you, even if the product cycle is 7 years.

You are misrepresenting the situation. I don't count on a warranty, ever, but that is just me. However, the problem that is paramount is the bent pins. I would just about bet (and I don't bet) that if it were just the failed flash of the firmware, they would take it back and fix it for you and they might not even charge for it.

What do you think about this practice by SUPEMICRO?

It is a standard that I don't think is special to Supermicro.

Another question is: alternative for SUPERMICRO, maybe ASUS?

I would say that if you bent the pins on an Asus system board, they would probably tell you it is out of warranty also. I don't think there is a manufacturer out there that will take that back on warranty.

Buying another mainboard than the X10SLH-F from the X10 series is making no sense for me, because they are all end-of-life.

It is not end of life. Just buy another board like you already had so you can use your existing CPU and RAM.
Sorry, but you created your own problem by bending the pins.

 

[m00nraker]

Hi Chris,

thank you very much for answering me in detail and telling me your opinion.

I understand your point. But let me tell you this:

SUPERMICRO is writing in their RMA service FAQ:

Q: My board is out of warranty, what repair options do you have?

A: Please, first submit an Online RMA Request and we will determine if your board is out of warranty. If the board is out of warranty, there will be a minimum $75.00 (USD) fee in order to repair your board.

The reseller company, who requested the RMA for me, told me exactly the same. They said, when the motherboard is not older than 3 years (purchase date), they would repair it, even if pins are bent. They said, if a motherboard is determined unrepairable, SUPERMICRO usually offers to exchange the damanged board for a refurbished one. But the customer have to pay for it. They also told me that bent pins are common with customers.

In the SUERMICRO warranty conditions they write:

10. WARRANTY EXCLUSIONS -
Supermicro's warranty policy does not include products intended for OEM/ODM distribution or refurbished products and does not cover server semiconductor components and third party components including but not limited to CPU socket pins, chipsets and processors.

It sounds that they exclude bent pins from warranty. But for me warranty is not the same like a service you want to pay for. Am I wrong?

Sorry, but you created your own problem by bending the pins.

I agree :-( Finally you maybe right, saying, if pins were not bent, they would have accepted it for RMA service. Maybe it works like that...

 

[Chris Moore]

SUPERMICRO is writing in their RMA service FAQ:

That bit about $75 to repair the board would probably be true if the pins were not bent.

They said, when the motherboard is not older than 3 years (purchase date), they would repair it, even if pins are bent.

I have never seen that be repaired by any company under warranty. I think you were lied to.

They said, if a motherboard is determined unrepairable, SUPERMICRO usually offers to exchange the damanged board for a refurbished one. But the customer have to pay for it.

What you said, "the customer have to pay for it," means exactly what I said, you have to buy a new board because, guess what, bent pins would be unrepairable.

It sounds that they exclude bent pins from warranty. But for me warranty is not the same like a service you want to pay for. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong, and you are not listening. None of the companies I have dealt with in more than 20 years doing this actually repair bent pins. Even when the Intel CPU had the pins on it instead of in the socket, if you bent the pins it made the part broken beyond repair, even if somebody else could repair it, the manufacturer called it unreparable and made you buy a new one because it was NOT covered by warranty. It has ALWAYS been that way. Bend the pins and you better straighten them yourself and never tell anyone it happened because if you tell, they void the warranty. That is what you call physical damage. It would be like throwing a bucket of water on your computer and wanting them to fix it under warranty. You broke it, just the same as if you poured acid on it, it is your fault, not their fault. Not warranty and they are not interested in your money to fix it because the labor to fix it would be more than the cost of a new board.

Finally you maybe right, saying, if pins were not bent, they would have accepted it for RMA service. Maybe it works like that...

I have experience with this type of thing. I have straightened bent pins before. It is probably too late now, because they have probably made a note in the inventory system, but if it ever happens again, know that it would be best to either not bend the pins or straighten them yourself. A magnifying glass, good lighting and a plastic pick work best, but you must be meticulous and take great care or you will snap them off.
If the only problem with the board had been a failed firmware flash, they might have taken responsibility for that due to the fact that they published the patch, but their website does have a disclaimer about installing those. They likely would have fixed it, but charged you. For the bent pins. I have never seen the manufacturer handle that. Some extended warranty companies do, but they exchange the part for a replacement and the original part is discarded. They treat it like an insurance claim on a car where the purchase price of the insurance (extended warranty) covers you for a repair even if that means a replacement, but that is not the same as the manufacturer warranty. Not even close.

 

[m00nraker]

Ok Chris.

I fully understand what you say. Thanks for the clarification.

My distributor didn't tell me about these things.

In the future I'll will take better care of the pins.