Should I move to SCALE?

[owegen]

Hello,
I have been using TrueNAS CORE (TrueNAS-13.0-U4) for some time as a file server and I am very happy with it. I bought dedicated hardware on which TrueNAS CORE has been installed, I realised that it is vastly underused in terms of performance.
I remember that in the past TrueNAS was based on FreeBSD. If I understood it right, there is now a new TrueNAS SCALE version which is now based on a "real" Linux.

My questions:

• Has TrueNAS SCALE become stable in the meantime? When I was interested in it, it was still in test version and not recommended for "productive" use
• What is the best strategy to switch from CORE to SCALE?

Thanks for your advice

 

[sretalla]

I remember that in the past TrueNAS was based on FreeBSD. If I understood it right, there is now a new TrueNAS SCALE version which is now based on a "real" Linux.

TrueNAS CORE (and FreeNAS before it) is based on FreeBSD.

TrueNAS SCALE is based on Debian Linux (but is not a full debian install, so don't think it's the same as having a Debian box to play with).

I think you're not understanding operating systems correctly if you think that "real" is Linux... Linux is a derivation of UNIX (which FreeBSD is), not the other way around.

 

[sretalla]

Has TrueNAS SCALE become stable in the meantime? When I was interested in it, it was still in test version and not recommended for "productive" use

Sort-of, but not ready for being called a true and full replacement for CORE especially in the realm of storage, where CORE is still the only way to have performance and stability... you just don't get the new features and in particular "apps".

What is the best strategy to switch from CORE to SCALE?

If you decide you prefer the "newness", then the upgrade option will get you there (switch trains on the upgrade screen and "upgrade"*).


*not really an upgrade in my opinion.

 

[danb35]

which is now based on a "real" Linux.

I have no idea what you mean by 'a "real" Linux'; it seems to suggest that FreeBSD is some sort of "fake Linux," which couldn't be farther from the truth--if that's your understanding of FreeBSD, you should do some reading about it and its history. But with that said, yes, TrueNAS SCALE is based on Linux, specifically Debian Bullseye (at least in the current release). That doesn't mean it's a general-purpose Linux distro that you can tinker with as desired; just like CORE, it's an appliance OS that isn't intended to be modified.

IMO, there are two major reasons for someone to switch to SCALE:

• The Apps ecosystem is far superior to anything that was ever accomplished with the plugins under CORE. Particularly if you add the TrueCharts repository, you have hundreds of apps available with point-and-click installation, TLS-terminating reverse proxy, and they're kept up-to-date
  • ...though TrueCharts have made breaking changes to their code, including one in the last couple of months that required people to reinstall all (or at least almost all) their apps
• You need support for hardware that isn't supported (or supported well) under FreeBSD--hardware support under Linux is generally better
  • This doesn't really affect the hardware that's recommended, but non-recommended hardware will have a better chance of working with SCALE than with CORE

If you built your system for CORE, the second bullet is unlikely to apply, so it would come down to the first. That was a strong enough reason for me to switch. I had a number of pieces of software (Plex, the *arr suite, etc.) in jails under CORE, I'd built another jail to handle a reverse proxy and TLS termination for them using Caddy, etc., but the apps ecosystem let me replace that with point-and-click installation and configuration. Worth it to me. However, there isn't an equivalent to a jail, a basic Linux system as an app that you can install arbitrary software into--if you want or need something like that, you'd need to come up with some other way, perhaps a VM, to make it happen.

So, to your questions:

Has TrueNAS SCALE become stable in the meantime?

It really depends what you mean by "stable." If you mean, "not likely to crash regularly and/or eat your data," the answer is yes. If you mean, "well-established and well-tuned software that will perform optimally and not implement breaking changes," the answer is no. SCALE's file-sharing performance (which is the core function of a NAS) lags far behind CORE's, and its memory management is much poorer--my SCALE system is just wasting over 40 GB of RAM right now that it could be using for ARC. SCALE is still under very active development, and breaking changes are still likely (see all the discussion about host path validation, which broke lots of apps for lots of users when 22.12 was released).

What is the best strategy to switch from CORE to SCALE?

Upgrade through the GUI is the simple option. If you want to be a bit safer, download a config file from your existing CORE installation, do a fresh installation of SCALE to a new boot device (thereby keeping your CORE boot device unchanged, in case you decide to revert), and upload the config file.

 

[danb35]

*not really an upgrade in my opinion.

But you're "powered by neutrality."

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

I hate BSD with a passion (for solid historical reasons) and installed SCALE because of it, which works brilliantly.

I'm migrating to CORE for the reasons @danb35 states. That may change when I get to a more advanced backup strategy, but for now it's a more logical choice. I even dug the old BSD books out, though probably won't need them as iXsystems has done such an excellent job with the GUI.

 

[owegen]

Thank you so much all of you for all those answers! I didn't expected so much

 

[owegen]

Upgrade through the GUI is the simple option. If you want to be a bit safer, download a config file from your existing CORE installation, do a fresh installation of SCALE to a new boot device (thereby keeping your CORE boot device unchanged, in case you decide to revert), and upload the config file.

Thank for those details. Can you be a bit more specific ? If I decide to make a fresh installation, what happend with the data stored on my NAS during the upgrade process? Do they get lost?

 

[danb35]

Do they get lost?

Yes, they're completely destroyed. That's why the the OS is on a completely separate device from the data.

/sarc

Yeah, that was kind of snarky. But why would you think installing the OS onto a fresh device would lose all the data stored on completely different devices? Unless you're using encryption, your data will be fine.

 

[owegen]

Yes, they're completely destroyed. That's why the the OS is on a completely separate device from the data.

/sarc

Yeah, that was kind of snarky. But why would you think installing the OS onto a fresh device would lose all the data stored on completely different devices? Unless you're using encryption, your data will be fine.

how can I check if I use encryption or not with TrueNAS? I'm not sure...

 

[indivision]

how can I check if I use encryption or not with TrueNAS? I'm not sure...

You kind of have to go out of your way to apply encryption. I would be surprised if you accidentally did so.

So, most likely, you are not using it. You should be able to confirm by looking at your dataset settings.

FWIW, I switched to Scale not long after it released and really like it. It sounds like Core performs better in tests. But, in use, I haven't seen any drop in file sharing speeds, etc.

I made the switch because I also like to get the most out of the hardware and the apps introduce new ways to use it. That said, using the apps has so far been far from easy. It's quite a lot of effort currently to manage them.

So, I would say that it has been dependable for me as a file server. But, the apps benefit requires a lot of additional effort. If you are a DIY type, that may be ok. Just know what you are getting in to.

PS: You can switch to Scale from within Core as mentioned. But, I would recommend doing a fresh install if possible. At least for me, when I switched, there were some nuances that didn't port over as expected (IIRC users, groups, permissions, etc).

 

[sretalla]

But you're "powered by neutrality."

Neutrality doesn't imply a lack of opinion... just that I won't attack anything...

 

[livin]

Just my 2 cents, I made after years of CORE the switch to SCALE.
And a myriad of problems I had just went away right away.

I was always frustraded why my Truenas (before Freenas) Server wasnt running well, has constant maintenance issues, random functions just stop working suddenly.
I had 2 problems that were unfixable for me:
a) SMB randomly stops working, only restarting the whole server fixed it (Restarting SMB Service didnt work, or only on some end-devices)
b) Permissions with Plugins were a nightmare. Dont get me started, basically only 50% of the settings worked.

Well, Scale fixed all of that. Havent had 1 issue since I switched.
It just "feels" as if im finally using a real Linux distro with the stability that I am used for many years. Stuff just works.

Looking back, Core probably cost me over 2000hours of work. Which, translated to a monetary value is kinda an insane amount.
If I told you, please invest 5years and 100k into troubleshooting systems on a regular basis, you would call me insane. But with Core I feel thats just something you buy into. (all hindsight now)
Im glad Truenas is on Debian-base now.

 

[Sasquatch]

Just my 2 cents, I made after years of CORE the switch to SCALE.
And a myriad of problems I had just went away right away.

I was always frustraded why my Truenas (before Freenas) Server wasnt running well, has constant maintenance issues, random functions just stop working suddenly.
I had 2 problems that were unfixable for me:
a) SMB randomly stops working, only restarting the whole server fixed it (Restarting SMB Service didnt work, or only on some end-devices)
b) Permissions with Plugins were a nightmare. Dont get me started, basically only 50% of the settings worked.

Well, Scale fixed all of that. Havent had 1 issue since I switched.
It just "feels" as if im finally using a real Linux distro with the stability that I am used for many years. Stuff just works.

Looking back, Core probably cost me over 2000hours of work. Which, translated to a monetary value is kinda an insane amount.
If I told you, please invest 5years and 100k into troubleshooting systems on a regular basis, you would call me insane. But with Core I feel thats just something you buy into. (all hindsight now)
Im glad Truenas is on Debian-base now.

I feel sorta the same, I have jails not touched since CORE 11 as every time i upgrade them they break. And reinstalling reverse proxu with crtbot in a jail is PITA.
Plex in jail kinda worked, with permissions set to 777 and every other update required reinstall. ubuntu VM with plex was so slow on xeon e3 1265l v3 I clould type over ssh( sudo ping 192.168.1.111) Before it displayed sudo.

On Scale same ubuntu VM with Plex was transcoding 4k to 1080p on same cpu, notto mention tahat i can pass GPU for HW transcoding.
so yes, CORE may be better tuned for raw starage/network/io performance, but not every use scenario calls for saturating 100GBe fibre channel from full flash pools.