BUILD server grade used components for home NAS?

[maur]

Hi guys, I could use some of your experience :)

tl;dr: I'm looking for some used server grade components, I have my eye on SUPERMICRO X8SIA-F + XEON L3406 - I can buy this duo for $60. Would you recommend? Or any alternatives?

It started with me noticing HP Servermicro gen8 - beauty! :) However limitations like 16GB ram, or other due to small size of case.. A bit much, for paying $250 for unit with 4GB ram
Looking over auction sites I found SUPERMICRO X8SIA-F + XEON L3406. Used, with 1 month warranty, for $60. Add some 32gb ecc memory, hard drives I already have, some nice quiet case and I'm done. But is it a good choice?
Other option, I see Pentium g4560 is on sale for $50, + some motherboard with ecc like http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-X150M-PRO-ECC-rev-10#ov for $140 = $190, 3 years warranty, but pretty big price difference. And no IPMI with motherboard.
I also looked over used servers in tower machines, but couldn't find anything interesting.
If you have idea for what else can I look (specific model, or even a socket/cpu series) I'd be happy to do some more researching.

My requirements for now:
- cpu energy efficient (tdp closer to 30-50W then 80-90) - however maybe it matter more to choose newer generation over older?
- cpu with VT-x and VT-d
and optional requiremenets, nice to have:
- cpu with ecc
- motherboard with IPMI

 

[Ericloewe]

cpu energy efficient (tdp closer to 30-50W then 80-90)

The TDP has nothing to do with that. I guarantee you that any low-TDP LGA1366 Xeon is going to take more power at idle than an 80W-TDP Xeon E3-1230 v5.

That said, that X8 system should be decent. Perhaps a bit slow due to the low-TDP CPU, but it should be manageable.

 

[maur]

The TDP has nothing to do with that. I guarantee you that any low-TDP LGA1366 Xeon is going to take more power at idle than an 80W-TDP Xeon E3-1230 v5.

Ok, thanks. I was afraid of that, good to know. then I don't need to look specifically for low-tdp cpus. :)
Anything else I could take a look at? I see Xeon E3-1230 v5 is too new/expensive, some older version which may be currently sold used?

 

[joeschmuck]

My requirements for now:
- cpu energy efficient (tdp closer to 30-50W then 80-90) - however maybe it matter more to choose newer generation over older?
- cpu with VT-x and VT-d
and optional requiremenets, nice to have:
- cpu with ecc
- motherboard with IPMI

You seem to list a few requirements and the desire to have at least 32GB RAM but do not list the use case. What made me respond to this thread was the fact that you asked to support virtualization which leads me into what did you want to virtualize. My idea here was to question your CPU choice. While low power is what I think we all strive for, the most important factor is if the device will meet our needs otherwise if it doesn't, you will end up spending more money for a better part. And as @Ericloewe stated above, TDP should not be the factor you are looking at. If your system needs a little bit of CPU horsepower then it only uses a little bit but if you need a lot for a short burst then a better CPU could supply it while a lesser CPU wouldn't. Additionally an older CPU will generally be less efficient than a newer CPU and use more power.

Also, if you are looking for a small unit or ultra quiet unit, or both, these will have no bearing on the TDP of the CPU but you just need some smart planning.

So start with what you expect out of the device first and then buy parts to support that. You may need to spread your purchases out a bit.

Last bit of advice, if you are looking for a cheap NAS then you can purchase small home use NAS devices but with that you will have slow transfer rates and basic NAS functionality. Building your own FreeNAS system provides you full network saturation and almost unlimited functionality while you spend very little money in the process compared to a comparable business NAS solution.

 

[maur]

You seem to list a few requirements(...)

Hi joeschmuck. And thanks, you're of course right. Thanks for taking the time and responsing.

My main need is nas. Backup. Media storage/sharing. Possibly sharing/straming to tv in next few months.
Backup is important to me, some photos from 10 years, and probably more importantly - invoices, company data. That's why I thought about ecc + zfs. (of course, I'm planning to have separate, offline backup). And also the reason why I'm considering raid5 or raid10 (in the future, for now I want to start with just raid1).
I work as a web developer, for now I have test environment on my macbook.. However 16gb starts to not be enough (shared between my system and servers). So second main purpose - vm with work servers running. It's python/php, web server, database. For one user, so I suspect any cpu should do. But I'd aim for more than 1 single core. Now my work-vm have 4gb ram + 8gb swap, so in peaks it can reach for 12gb (tested). When running some tools.
Another, smaller reason, is I just like to play. Test new webpanel for my vps server on new virtual machine. Thinking about buying peephole camera and connecting it to some 24h online machine. It's not that important, as I could do it with thin client.

I looked at more tdp-low cpus probably because - as you said, older cpu is less efficient. And I looked at some really old xeons power usage when idle and 40-50W scared me away.
Ultra quiet unit, that's for sure. In 1 room apartment there's no room for noise. However size is not the case (ok, ok, I'd like to avoid very big towers), so I assume I can make almost any unit quiet (some accustic foam, better/more fans running at 20-30% and so on).
As small as possible, but I don't expect it to be hp microserver gen8 small. I'd love it, but don't expect. ;)

You mentioned transfer rates. I like my machines, and spending $120 or so for router I'd hate for server to be the bottleneck.

Like you said, building is much cheaper than business solutions. And home solution.. well, I don't see it to be honest. I could of course buy home solution nas. And another (home, not server grade) machine to use for work. But it seems to me, that would just be more expensive than 1 machine from used server parts - which will give me more performance and probably be a bit more reliable.

 

[joeschmuck]

And also the reason why I'm considering raid5 or raid10 (in the future, for now I want to start with just raid1).

Try not to mix the terminology but I understand what you are saying. If you are saving important data then go for RAIDZ2 up front because you cannot simply add an extra drive, ZFS is not that simple.

Ultra quiet unit, that's for sure. In 1 room apartment there's no room for noise. However size is not the case (ok, ok, I'd like to avoid very big towers),

@DrKK just built a nice whisper quiet system, my system is whisper quiet. And I'm being serious, you cannot hear the system at all. If I place my ear up to my hard drives I can hear them spinning but they are almost 4.5 years of age, I could barely hear them when I first bought them. I think I got another half year at least on them before I see a failure, maybe even longer. The larger the case, the larger and slower moving fans you can have which produce no noise. If you have a small case and small fans running fast then you the noise I hate. I like a silent machine. Just remember "large fans" for everything, that includes the power supply. The CPU is the exception becasue these things have been redesigned and are quiet unless you are do ing some serious calculations. My machine is running at 50% cpu load (it's an ESXi server) and I can't hear the CPU fan. I'm such a happy camper.

My advice is to purchase good equipment and unfortunately it will cost you some money. There is a person selling a system in the Off Topic section of this forum. Maybe you could make them an offer if it's what you like?

 

[maur]

That's what I'm aiming for in the matter of loudness :)
good equipment.. Well, I don't have wide knowledge here, so that's saying me absolutely nothing..
I looked at wikipedia (https://ark.intel.com/products/27272/Intel-Xeon-Processor-2_66-GHz-512K-Cache-533-MHz-FSB)
trying to find some newer xeon than between L3406 (but maybe not 2016 newer) and.. damn, there's so many of them.

So back to my original question, any used xeon model (or socket) I should research? So I might find good offer for used item, but 2-4 years used, not 8?

Thanks for hint, I looked at offtopic section, seems like overkill with cpu. Also hard drivers I'd like to buy new and don't stress about them next few years. Especially when used can generate more noise.

 

[joeschmuck]

Thanks for hint, I looked at offtopic section, seems like overkill with cpu. Also hard drivers I'd like to buy new and don't stress about them next few years. Especially when used can generate more noise.

Well I'd make an offer for the system less the hard drives. What I posted for what I'd sell it for, to me seems like a reasonable price but you could make any offer you desire, and the system looks like a nice one. And you could ask the seller about it's noise level (with the drive disconnected).

In looking at other systems, there is the Lenovo Think Server TS140 but most come with a basic 8GB RAM so you would need to upgrade that to support running VMs, and add in your hard drives as well. Also the TS140 has limited hard drive storage so depending on what you need, this could be a limiting factor but if you ran two 6TB drives in a mirror, that might be enough for you. That is one of the lowest costing servers I am aware of. I have no idea how quiet it is but NewEgg says it's quiet. A Google search might offer some insight to that topic.

 

[melloa]

Based on your main requirement be a NAS, I have to agree with @joeschmuck regarding going Raidz2 up. I might have the same requirements as you: NAS and VMs (Plex, owncloud, guacamole, mail, zm, etc). The way I planned was to have a good NAS, so FreeNAS with 32 GBRAM for 10x4TiB WDRed on a pentium, good enough for a NAS, followed by a VMWare server with an i7 and 32GBRAM. Splitting my servers allowed me to get where I wanted in phases and not spend a lot of mula at once.
You are in Poland, so it is hard to tell you what to buy :)

 

[ChriZ]

I did have a x8sil-f motherboard which is similar to the one you mentioned in your first post. The x8 series are fairly old but rock solid.
Keep in mind though, that it supports max 16GB ram with the L3406 CPU.
You will need to go for a different CPU, like the L3426 or an x34xx if you want 32GB
Just my 2c...

 

[maur]

(...)The way I planned was to have a good NAS, so FreeNAS with 32 GBRAM for 10x4TiB WDRed on a pentium, good enough for a NAS, followed by a VMWare server with an i7 and 32GBRAM. Splitting my servers allowed me to get where I wanted in phases and not spend a lot of mula at once.
You are in Poland, so it is hard to tell you what to buy :)

10x4TiB.. wow. ;)
Well, my local shops or auction portal I can check (if I know what to look for), but I'm also wondering about some servers/boards with cpu and ram from ebay. From all countries except USA basically. From uk delivery $20, from germany similar, from indla or china I have seen cpu's in good prices with free delivery. So not that hard if ebay is on the table (maybe a bit tricky, since except usa, shipping cost there kills every deal)

I did have a x8sil-f motherboard which is similar to the one you mentioned in your first post. The x8 series are fairly old but rock solid.
Keep in mind though, that it supports max 16GB ram with the L3406 CPU.
You will need to go for a different CPU, like the L3426 or an x34xx if you want 32GB
Just my 2c...

Oh, right, good to know, I didn't noticed that earlier.
btw what should I check when searching for server memory? I've looked for: 8gb ddr3 ecc reg 1333MHz memory, found few results, different pricing.
one was hynix HMT31GR7BFR4A-H9 ($20)
another one samsung 2Rx4 PC3-10600R-09-10-E1-P1 ($36)
and another kingston 995516-079.A00G; 2Rx4 PC3L-10600R-9-12-E2; HP647650-071-HYE (also #36)
All of them would be good for that board? Or should I also look at some other parameters like 2Rx4, or..?
I focused on reg(istered) ecc because board spec says that max 16gb unbuffered, or max 32gb regulated

...building a pc was easier. :)

 

[ChriZ]

I remember that board being a bit picky regarding Ram.
I did not have 8GB DIMMS there - had 4x2 GB Registered Samsung modules.
I will look at the part numbers tomorrow, they are somewhere inside an office drawer.

 

[maur]

No problem, that board is already sold, so looking for something else. For now I wrote email to seller with Dell T20 asking if he can arrange 24 or 32GB ram for me and for what price.
So thanks ChriZ, no need to look at part numbers, as I'm back to step 1.. :/

 

[Stux]

IMO, x8 is too old. That's why it's cheap.

Any CPU pre haswell is a pig at power consumption, especially when idle, which is what your NAS will be most of the time.

 

[maur]

IMO, x8 is too old. That's why it's cheap.

Any CPU pre haswell is a pig at power consumption, especially when idle, which is what your NAS will be most of the time.

haswell I get - thanks for that hint. Since 1st post I was asking which model or socket should I focus on. Now I know more. i3/xeon from haswell :)
..but what do you mean by x8? I know you're referring to to something I mentioned, but I don't see anywhere "x8".

 

[DrKK]

mean by x8?

Sir,

X8, X9, X10, X11, etc., refer to motherboard series by Supermicro. Supermicro makes the definitive server-grade motherboard for the home NAS.

 

[danb35]

x8 refers to the SuperMicro motherboard generation (the first part of the model number). IMO, it's the oldest that has the potential to be acceptable for FreeNAS, but any of the x9 or later boards will be better at performance per watt.

 

[maur]

X8, X9, X10, X11, etc.,

x8 refers(...)

Dah. I focused my searching for "X8" at cpu. Noted, thanks!
I'm getting more knowledge piece by piece today. ;) Hopefully some build or good choice of already build server will came out of this ;)

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

If you're willing to drop a little bit more for the mobo+CPU you can check out the Xeon D series. The X10SDV-4C-7TP4F has access to 20 SATA ports (16 via SFF headers), 10GbE expandability, allows for upto 128GBs of RAM, sips power, is in a tiny form factor, supports VT-x and VT-d, and has two PCIe x8 slots.

It's quite the package for what you get, but it is a bit more expensive then the X8 or X9 series.

 

[maur]

If you're willing to drop a little bit more for the mobo+CPU you can check out the Xeon D series. (...)

A little bit?! ohmygod. X10SDV-4C-7TP4F is for $650.
Dell T20 whole server cost less.
I'm not so much cheap as I posted in 1st post, that board+cpu for $60.
But c'mon, 10x more? Isn't there anything between? Board+cpu for $200 or $300? :D

also 20 SATA, 10GbE and up to 128GB seems like.. I'll use 5 sata (max), network 1Gb (working on notebook with no chance for 10Gb Ethernet) and 32GB. So probably no reason to pay for possibility I'll not use.