Plugins Outdated?

[indivision]

I do believe everyone in its own way make a good point: FreeNas's core isn't about plugins although, if those were better mantained and updated, everyone would benefit from it. But one thing is ask for it to be done, different is to expect it to be done.
The OS's job is to be reliable, stable and secure. If you ask me, it does this job pretty well.

I think that it comes down to clarity. If someone only needs a stable file server, there are a zillion ways to get there. If someone wants the convenience of a plugin system, that might be a bigger factor than the file system. Plus, they may have relied on the update speed that FreeNAS previously delivered.

It's not a crime if FreeNAS wants to focus on being a file server and put little effort in keeping the plugins updated. Clearly, that would be ok with some people. But, it should be made clear up front so that people can make a good decision for themselves.

As was pointed out earlier, Plex is so out of date that it doesn't even work with some client devices. If that is no big deal, as some old-time members suggest, just make that clear. It's confusing to advertise and document a plugin system and have people install and use the system only to find out that they can't rely on it to work.

 

[Jailer]

Did something change about the update strategy as part of the recent team shuffle?

Yes, the plugin system is changing to an iocage based system. So the old plugins aren't likely to get any love because they are going to be replaced soon. IIRC it's coming in 11.1

 

[Mlovelace]

IAre the plugin maintainers various third parties or someone at iX?

The plugins are maintained by third party individuals not developers at iX.

 

[raidflex]

I think that it comes down to clarity. If someone only needs a stable file server, there are a zillion ways to get there. If someone wants the convenience of a plugin system, that might be a bigger factor than the file system. Plus, they may have relied on the update speed that FreeNAS previously delivered.

It's not a crime if FreeNAS wants to focus on being a file server and put little effort in keeping the plugins updated. Clearly, that would be ok with some people. But, it should be made clear up front so that people can make a good decision for themselves.

As was pointed out earlier, Plex is so out of date that it doesn't even work with some client devices. If that is no big deal, as some old-time members suggest, just make that clear. It's confusing to advertise and document a plugin system and have people install and use the system only to find out that they can't rely on it to work.

You do realize you can EASILY install a standard jail and do pkg install to install plex and most other apps that are plugins. Most apps have very little setup and really do not require much more time to configure. Then all you have to do is pkg upgrade and it will update all apps to latest version which is usually up to date within a couple days at most. You can even have 1 single jail and run pkg upgrade to update all your apps at once, personally I like to separate some apps for isolation.

 

[indivision]

You do realize you can EASILY install a standard jail and do pkg install to install plex and most other apps that are plugins. Most apps have very little setup and really do not require much more time to configure. Then all you have to do is pkg upgrade and it will update all apps to latest version which is usually up to date within a couple days at most. You can even have 1 single jail and run pkg upgrade to update all your apps at once, personally I like to separate some apps for isolation.

It's more involved than that to get them to function like the plugins (starting up automatically on server reboot, etc.).

 

[danb35]

It's more involved than that to get them to function like the plugins (starting up automatically on server reboot, etc.).

Yep, terribly involved:

Code:

pkg install plexmediaserver
sysrc plexmediaserver_enable=YES
service plexmediaserver start

 

[raidflex]

It's more involved than that to get them to function like the plugins (starting up automatically on server reboot, etc.).

Not really I have setup them myself, many have autostart scripts already configured.

 

[indivision]

More than I am familiar with and more than I want to get into for every plugin, every time I have to rebuild them. Which, turns out to be regularly lately.

 

[raidflex]

More than I am familiar with and more than I want to get into for every plugin, every time I have to rebuild them. Which, turns out to be regularly lately.

Not sure why you need to rebuild them but I have been using plugins and standard jails for years with few issues. In fact the plugins had more issues then the custom jails if anything.

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[indivision]

It's a long story that has been gone over enough already on this forum.

 

[Andreas Corneliussen]

I will still say that I would like the plugin system to keep the plugins more up to date as this benefits everyone. Also I would like to chip in on help once in a while instead of solely relying on one plugin maintainer to do the work. As it is right now I just don't know who is maintaining the plugins and how I can help making sure that the ones I care about is updated without taking on the full responsibility of being a plugin maintainer.
Is the plugin development process documented somewhere?

 

[Jailer]

Is the plugin development process documented somewhere?

Of course it is.

https://github.com/freenas/iocage-ix-plugins

 

[danb35]

https://github.com/freenas/iocage-ix-plugins

I think he was asking about the current process, not the upcoming one with iocage.

 

[Jailer]

I think he was asking about the current process, not the upcoming one with iocage.

The same google search I preformed to come up with that link will provide that answer as well. ;)

 

[diskdiddler]

The plugins run the latest for everyone else but you. They are maybe 2-3 days behind on updates but docker will be exactly the same thing. Someone still has to update the container just like they update the port.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

What on EARTH are you talking about?

Plugins on FreeNAS are kindly maintained by that Josh fella and a few people - they (to my knowledge) do not use the standard sources and require maintanance or porting or something.

SabNZBD has been out of date 4 to 8 weeks for example.
Crashplan is regularly a joke not worth wasting time on.

Docker stuff however is updated DAMN quick and (I'm not a coder) our docker 'ports' are more like a script on how to configure the docker on FreeNAS but the actual software is from some prime repository updated damn fast because tens, hundreds (?) of thousands of people use it, unlike FreeNAS.

FreeNAS10 might've been awful but docker, from what I understand offers a much wider variety of plugins and with a faster update cycle.

Also (although it's not a plugin) look at Qbittorrent, the FreeBSD port at freshports is always 2 to 6 weeks behind the latest release on the site. - They just finished 3.3.13 and that went up 5 weeks ago.

Oh and the plugin selection is minute on FreeNAS. I know jails are very cool and powerful in their own way (Especially from a low overhead perspective, vs the Linux VM for docker) but they don't beat docker for updates or variety, at all.

 

[Stranded Camel]

It's of course tempting to define away any deficiencies in a system as not being part of its "core mission", but as someone else said earlier, plugins are presented as first-class citizens on the FreeNAS website, in the documentation, and in its own GUI. They should therefore either be fully supported by IX, or a large disclaimer should be added wherever plugins are mentioned -- something like:

WARNING: IX Systems neither supports or maintains any of FreeNAS's plugins. Many plugins are out of date and may therefore present security risks to your entire system. Use at your own risk.

That refreshing bit of honesty would set things straight for everyone involved. But of course it will never happen, because it would almost certainly mean a drastic drop in the number of FreeNAS adopters, since plugins are a huge selling point.

Right now, I'm looking for a replacement for Dropbox, and the FreeNAS plugins that seem to fit the bill are out of date:

• Nextcloud = 10.0.1 (current is 12.0.0)
• Owncloud = 9.1.2 (current is 10.0.2)

Installing such old versions of anything internet-facing is asking to be pwned. So it's not going to happen until FreeNAS gets its act in order. I could install one of these in a VM, but I already have a barebones Linux VM on my FreeNAS box and the performance is downright awful; bhyve on FreeNAS is of pre-alpha quality. So that leaves jails, but apparently that subsystem is going to be changed soon. Or not. You never really know.

All in all, it's a crappy situation.

 

[SweetAndLow]

It's of course tempting to define away any deficiencies in a system as not being part of its "core mission", but as someone else said earlier, plugins are presented as first-class citizens on the FreeNAS website, in the documentation, and in its own GUI. They should therefore either be fully supported by IX, or a large disclaimer should be added wherever plugins are mentioned -- something like:

WARNING: IX Systems neither supports or maintains any of FreeNAS's plugins. Many plugins are out of date and may therefore present security risks to your entire system. Use at your own risk.

That refreshing bit of honesty would set things straight for everyone involved. But of course it will never happen, because it would almost certainly mean a drastic drop in the number of FreeNAS adopters, since plugins are a huge selling point.

Right now, I'm looking for a replacement for Dropbox, and the FreeNAS plugins that seem to fit the bill are out of date:

• Nextcloud = 10.0.1 (current is 12.0.0)
• Owncloud = 9.1.2 (current is 10.0.2)

Installing such old versions of anything internet-facing is asking to be pwned. So it's not going to happen until FreeNAS gets its act in order. I could install one of these in a VM, but I already have a barebones Linux VM on my FreeNAS box and the performance is downright awful; bhyve on FreeNAS is of pre-alpha quality. So that leaves jails, but apparently that subsystem is going to be changed soon. Or not. You never really know.

All in all, it's a crappy situation.

So install it in a jail and stop complaining. Or update the plugins. Plugins are just pre made jails. I think installing nextcloud takes 30 seconds and a single command.

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[danb35]

Or update the plugins.

Are you not reading this thread? The point is that the plugins aren't up-to-date; Nextcloud is two major releases out-of-date.

I think installing nextcloud takes 30 seconds and a single command.

Really?

• Create Jail
• Add storage to jail
  
• Install Apache/Nginx, PHP, MySQL/MariaDB/PostgreSQL/SQLite(ugh)
• Configure the above
• Install Nextcloud
• Configure Nextcloud

 

[danb35]

But of course it will never happen, because it would almost certainly mean a drastic drop in the number of FreeNAS adopters, since plugins are a huge selling point.

Yes, they're such a "huge selling point" that they don't even appear on the landing page at all. When they do appear, here's what they say:

FreeNAS® supports the core features of a NAS appliance out of the box. However, many users like to enhance their NAS appliance with third party software for media streaming, alternative protocols, or web applications.

To make sure your NAS can do everything you want, FreeNAS offers a third-party plugin system based on the FreeBSD jails system and the PBI system from PC-BSD. The plugin system isolates third-party software from the core operating system but allows plugins access to user-specified directories and configuration from the main Web User Interface.

Yes, I've added the bold for emphasis. I think it's pretty clear, the fact that we're dealing with third-party stuff is mentioned three times in four sentences.

 

[SweetAndLow]

Are you not reading this thread? The point is that the plugins aren't up-to-date; Nextcloud is two major releases out-of-date.

Really?

• Create Jail
• Add storage to jail
  
• Install Apache/Nginx, PHP, MySQL/MariaDB/PostgreSQL/SQLite(ugh)
• Configure the above
• Install Nextcloud
• Configure Nextcloud

I meant update the plugin template. I'm just tired of the complaining and think people should just fix it if they don't like it.

I also looked up a guide for next cloud install and I was clearly wrong about the install. It's insane how much there is to do.

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