Plugins Outdated?

[Quinnx]

I used jails for years. I used Docker for as long as it was available in FreeNAS. I'm not sure what complexity you are referring to?

It sounds like you're trying to persuade me about which system to like. All I really want at this point in time is some way to use the latest versions of apps in FreeNAS. You're throwing out claims that it's something I've done wrong. I'm open to that. But, I'm not sure what.

Here, look at the versions that 11-Stable (from clean install) shows available:

View attachment 19278

Now, go look up some of those apps and see what the latest version numbers are. Are you sure that I'm the only one with outdated apps here?

Plex: https://www.plex.tv/downloads/ They are on version 1.7.5.4035-313f93718

SABnzbd: https://sabnzbd.org/downloads - Version 2.10

There are others.

Also because of the direct link you can see that most haven't been updated since 11-April-2017, there are only a few that have.

https://download.freenas.org/plugins/9/x64/

 

[Jailer]

Hah. Thank you for taking the time to share the solution.

A quick search of the forum would have produced that, it's been discussed ad nauseum.

When you choose to use plugins you're at the mercy of the plugin maintainer to keep it up to date. Some of the plugins are better maintained than others and some haven't been updated in quite some time. When iocage gets baked in the plugin system will be changing so don't expect a lot of effort to be put into the current plugin system.

It's your choice on how to proceed. If you don't like the fact that some of them are outdated then roll your own in a standard jail, spin up a vm or wait until Docker is baked in and go that route.

 

[danb35]

If you don't like the fact that some of them are outdated then roll your own in a standard jail

...and even then you might have trouble staying up-to-date. The FreeBSD packages aren't always up-to-date either--I recall that when SAB upgraded to 2.0, it was some weeks before the package was released. If you're always installing from source, of course, you won't have this problem.

The other point that I don't recall seeing mentioned here is that many of the plugins will update themselves once installed. In that case, it's hardly worth spending the effort to rebuild the PBI for every little update; just let the application update itself. Though it'd still be helpful to have a somewhat recent version, especially for problematic apps like Crashplan.

 

[indivision]

A quick search of the forum would have produced that, it's been discussed ad nauseum.

Downloading a third party script to update app versions isn't the solution I was looking for. But, you raise a good point. Ad nauseum discussion of the issue indicates that the model wasn't working.

When you choose to use plugins you're at the mercy of the plugin maintainer to keep it up to date. Some of the plugins are better maintained than others and some haven't been updated in quite some time.

I feel that I acknowledged this up front. I just found that when I switched back to the old-now-new train that they were more outdated than before. So much so that I thought maybe something else was going on.

When iocage gets baked in the plugin system will be changing so don't expect a lot of effort to be put into the current plugin system.

That doesn't sound very good for the future. What happens when both plugins and docker images are being maintained?

It's your choice on how to proceed. If you don't like the fact that some of them are outdated then roll your own in a standard jail, spin up a vm or wait until Docker is baked in and go that route.

In my view, that defeats the purpose of FreeNAS. I CAN set up everything that FreeNAS does. But, it takes more time. I could be wrong. But, I believe the fundamental purpose of FreeNAS as software is to provide a GUI to help avoid doing a lot of manual server work.

I expect some manual work on any server. But, in this case, we're talking about aspects that FreeNAS intends to handle. Not some unusual add-on or change that I'm trying to apply.

 

[danb35]

But, I believe the fundamental purpose of FreeNAS as software is to provide a GUI to help avoid doing a lot of manual server work.

True. But plugins aren't part of that "fundamental purpose."

 

[indivision]

...and even then you might have trouble staying up-to-date.

I've used plugins for years. I acknowledged earlier that plugins have always lagged.

The amount of the lagging is the subject. Jailer implies that they aren't being bothered with because another jails system is on the way. So, I guess that is the answer?

 

[indivision]

True. But plugins aren't part of that "fundamental purpose."

How are they not? The feature is advertised and documented alongside every other feature that it handles?

 

[Jailer]

How are they not?

It's not. FreeNAS first and foremost mission is a reliable stable file server. The rest is just bonus material.

 

[indivision]

So, would you advocate that FreeNAS add a disclaimer to the documentation?

"In this section, we describe a bunch of features that would be nice if they work as expected. But, if they don't, that's your problem!"

I'm pretty sure that FreeNAS has done well BECAUSE of the "bonus material". Simple file servers are all over the place. One could easily be spun up in a day from scratch with something like ubuntu server.

 

[danb35]

You're conflating a bunch of different things. The fundamental purpose of FreeNAS is to be a NAS--it's even in the name. The plugin system is part of its core functionality--after all, FreeNAS ships that way from iX. Plugins aren't the main purpose of the product, but the plugin system is a feature of the product. Any individual plugin, however, is not a core feature of FreeNAS--it's a plugin that happens to be hosted on iX's servers, but is packaged by a third party and is subject to that third party's update schedule.

Simple file servers are all over the place. One could easily be spun up in a day from scratch with something like ubuntu server.

Of course it could. And I'm sure it would have a feature-complete web GUI too. Right?

 

[indivision]

You're conflating a bunch of different things. The fundamental purpose of FreeNAS is to be a NAS--it's even in the name. The plugin system is part of its core functionality--after all, FreeNAS ships that way from iX. Plugins aren't the main purpose of the product, but the plugin system is a feature of the product. Any individual plugin, however, is not a core feature of FreeNAS--it's a plugin that happens to be hosted on iX's servers, but is packaged by a third party and is subject to that third party's update schedule.

So, what I'm getting from this is that, in your opinion, users of FreeNAS shouldn't expect up-to-date plugins because, even though plugins are a feature, they aren't as important as other features....?

Of course it could. And I'm sure it would have a feature-complete web GUI too. Right?

That's my point! A file server doesn't need a GUI to be stable and reliable. And it doesn't take much work to set one up if that's all that someone is after.

I disagree with your premise that FreeNAS users choose FreeNAS just for the NAS part. They choose it because it also gives them easy access to features they don't want to spend time manually setting up and managing. And that includes common software used on servers. Obviously. Or, the FreeNAS team never would have thought it was a good idea to include it in the GUI.

 

[danb35]

I'm not interested in arguing the point--it is what it is. The plugins are out of date, and this isn't anything new. You can complain about it, if it makes you feel better. You can file bugs about it, which is more likely to accomplish something. Or, if you need them to be up to date, you can use any of the other methods already suggested in this thread.

But I again note that you're conflating the plugin system (which is a feature of FreeNAS) with the individual plugins themselves (which aren't).

A file server doesn't need a GUI to be stable and reliable.

The GUI (and its associated middleware) is literally what makes FreeNAS FreeNAS. Otherwise it's just FreeBSD.

And it doesn't take much work to set one up if that's all that someone is after.

I'm sure the FN10 devs will be glad to hear that the GUI "doesn't take much work." I wonder why it took them so long to get it out the door, then, and why it was such a steaming pile of crap?

I disagree with your premise that FreeNAS users choose FreeNAS just for the NAS part.

You're disagreeing with something I never said.

 

[indivision]

I'm not interested in arguing the point--it is what it is. The plugins are out of date, and this isn't anything new. You can complain about it, if it makes you feel better. You can file bugs about it, which is more likely to accomplish something. Or, if you need them to be up to date, you can use any of the other methods already suggested in this thread.

It seems like you are giving me permission for these options... Thank you?

The GUI (and its associated middleware) is literally what makes FreeNAS FreeNAS. Otherwise it's just FreeBSD.

You seem to be repeating points that I just made as if I disagree with them. Yes! The GUI and the things that the GUI does (including install plugins) is what makes FreeNAS, FreeNAS.

I'm sure the FN10 devs will be glad to hear that the GUI "doesn't take much work."

I was meaning that a file-server can be set up without a GUI without much work. If just serving files is the "core", FreeNAS has a tiny core and a large "bonus material" section.

You're disagreeing with something I never said.

I'm glad that you agree with me then. :D

 

[Andreas Corneliussen]

I too have looked at the version of the plugins and wondered why they weren't more up to date. Especially the nextcloud plugin I would like to keep up to date since I am planning on exposing this to the internet and therefore I would like it to be as uptodate as possible. The internal updater for this system can update quite much, but only up to a point as newer versions needs newer versions of PHP.
I am now working on spinning up my own jail and installing all that is needed for nextcloud in it. However, I think that this is a bad way of doing it for three reasons:

• I have to start from scratch (or in this case I can base my effort on a guide in this forum).
• I am now totally outside the update train of the plugin and I will have to update everything myself even though the maintainers of the plugin start updating again.
• My effort of installing everything correctly benefits no-one but me

I would had liked it if the development of the plugin had been placed on github or something like that in a form of a build-script that can be executed in a jail for form the actual plugin. In this way, the community can help keeping the plugins up to date by submitting pull-requests. This way the plugins that are actually used or where the old versions in the plugin systems is a problem, will most likely be updated by the first capable person having the problem to the benefit of the rest of us.

Is this something I should write a feature request for in the freenas redmine bug tracker?

 

[Jailer]

You are better off with a manual install vs plugin especially if you plan on exposing it to the internet. There is an excellent guide on this forum that walks you through it step by step. Keeping it up to date after it is installed is trivial.

 

[Andreas Corneliussen]

I'm aware that's how it is now, but why should it be that way. Why wouldn't we try to make it an community effort to have a state of the art secure installation of fx. nextcloud in the plugin system? That eases the pain of updating the systems for all of us so that not even the trivial effort will be needed in the future?

 

[Jailer]

Well i cant speak for others but for me creating and maintaining a plugin is beyond my skill level. I can though create a jail and
keep it up to date reletively easily.

 

[Andreas Corneliussen]

I do not know anything about how to manage and maintain a plugin. But looking at it from a birds-eye perspective I can't see why it should not be something that you can boil down to a script doing exactly what the guide tells you to do in a jail. And if we place that script in a place where everyone can read it and suggest changes to it, then the maintainence effort of the actual plugin maintainer could be lowered significantly.

 

[ZodiacUHD]

I do believe everyone in its own way make a good point: FreeNas's core isn't about plugins although, if those were better mantained and updated, everyone would benefit from it. But one thing is ask for it to be done, different is to expect it to be done.
The OS's job is to be reliable, stable and secure. If you ask me, it does this job pretty well.

To be fair i think that anyone who is brave enough to install FreeNas and has zero experience in anything beside windows machines, CAN install and mantain jails on its own. Plugins are a feature that relies on the good will of the mantainers. So are dockers and anything else you do not do on your own. It might not be fair or the best solution but it is what it is.

The forum is populated with mostly nice people and filled with step-by -step guides on pretty much anything you might want from your NAS. Anyone can do anything and in general, if you do not have time to learn something, you can find solutions that better fit your needs (for example other machines with other OSs). Of course that would come with a price but you're paying to get something and you have every right to ask for it.

 

[indivision]

In the past, the plugins became out of date like this. People started writing tickets about individual plugins and it seemed like it was someone from iX that updated them in response. After a volley of those requests, it seemed like they were updated more frequently (without tickets) for a good stretch of time. Maybe a year or two all the way up to the release of Corral.

So, that raises a few questions. Are the plugin maintainers various third parties or someone at iX? It seemed to me that if it wasn't someone at iX directly, it at least involved someone there to update the code in a new build. Did something change about the update strategy as part of the recent team shuffle?