Networking over Thunderbolt?

[CookieMonster]

For devices which cannot have a proper 10Gbe NIC, but would like faster connection nevertheless:

Does TrueNAS Scale support Thunderbolt bridge networking?
E.g., Macs do, and if I wanted to connect my server to MacBook over Thunderbolt, would that work?

Would it work for baremetal TN?
Would it work for TN over Proxmox or other hypervisor?

Thank you

 

[Davvo]

As long as you are not using it to connect the server to the network, you are in the safe zone. TN itself doesn't care about how the clients connect to the network.

 

[Etorix]

But does TrueNAS supports Thunderbolt netwoking at all? I doubt it does.
A Mac without 10 GbE can connect to a 10 GbE NIC over Thunderbolt: That's a better solution.

 

[gdreade]

Sonnet (https://www.sonnettech.com/) also carries a selection of products for connecting thunderbold ports to ethernet networks. I've found their 10Gbe products to be solid (I've no experience with their other products, but suspect the build quality would match).

 

[CookieMonster]

Sonnet (https://www.sonnettech.com/) also carries a selection of products for connecting thunderbold ports to ethernet networks. I've found their 10Gbe products to be solid (I've no experience with their other products, but suspect the build quality would match).

Yeah, I've seen it. As well as OWC, Startech, etc.
They all have complaints of overheating and dropping connection when in use for longer than 5 minutes.
There is no reliable external 10 Gbe adapter on the market right now, hence this topic.

 

[Etorix]

Yeah, I've seen it. As well as OWC, Startech, etc.
They all have complaints of overheating and dropping connection when in use for longer than 5 minutes.

ALL of them, really? I can imagine there may be heat issues for bus-powered 10GBase-T adapters; less so for bus-powered SFP+ adapters; and at the very least PCIe enclosures, with their own power supply and their own internal cooling fans, should be reliable. (Yes these are bulkier than a Mac mini…)

 

[jgreco]

They all have complaints of overheating and dropping connection when in use for longer than 5 minutes.

Yes, because there will always be doofuses using them. As @Etorix mentions, there's no reason that this has to be the case. Buy a properly ventilated device (not a plastic dongle) and, if need be, be prepared to ensure cool airflow over it. I'm happy to blame both vendors who fail to make suitably self-cooling gear and users who can't be arsed to understand that energy-hungry chipsets need cooling. I've used OWC and one of my companies is actually a Startech reseller. As long as you understand what you're buying and deploy it appropriately, the products of theirs that I have used work just fine. But yes you are absolutely going to get goobers who just buy random stuff and think "oh the fins on the side are just there to make it look cool" rather than realizing that it's an indication that it struggles to keep a reasonable temperature, and then post negative comments. A device that consumes watts tends to convert watts to heat. Plan accordingly!

 

[CookieMonster]

Yes, because there will always be doofuses using them. As @Etorix mentions, there's no reason that this has to be the case. Buy a properly ventilated device (not a plastic dongle) and, if need be, be prepared to ensure cool airflow over it. I'm happy to blame both vendors who fail to make suitably self-cooling gear and users who can't be arsed to understand that energy-hungry chipsets need cooling. I've used OWC and one of my companies is actually a Startech reseller. As long as you understand what you're buying and deploy it appropriately, the products of theirs that I have used work just fine. But yes you are absolutely going to get goobers who just buy random stuff and think "oh the fins on the side are just there to make it look cool" rather than realizing that it's an indication that it struggles to keep a reasonable temperature, and then post negative comments. A device that consumes watts tends to convert watts to heat. Plan accordingly!

The ones I mentioned (OWC, Startech) did look like the most reputable ones.
Yeah, I was thinking about attaching a huge Noctua if I end up splurging for one of these. (Unless you happen to have a better idea?)

If their cases have standoffs that are in contact with the chip, and it sounds like they do, would opening the case up and applying thermal paste to the standoffs help?

Also, do you have any experience with Thunderbolt bridging between TN and non-TN devices? Is it supported?

Thank you

 

[Etorix]

If the case is designed to serve as heatsink, it should already make contact with appropriate thermal compound…

From a little research, Sonnet dongles (with ribbed fins) run warn. QNAP T310G1S / T310G1T dongles have an internal fan, which a French reviewer measured at 44.6 dB at 1 m. Ouch! Choose your poison.
And in any case, make sure the firmware is updated.

 

[jgreco]

Yeah, I was thinking about attaching a huge Noctua if I end up splurging for one of these. (Unless you happen to have a better idea?)

Make sure the airflow is flowing along the fins. I looked at some images of one of the Startech units and there was a casing that had fins (possibly vented) on two sides, and it isn't entirely clear what is going on inside. If you can locate a teardown image of what it is like inside, that knowledge would be very helpful to selecting the best strategy. Or a FLIR camera to find the warm spots. Or even just the back of your hand. It may be obvious, and if so *great!*, but the bits that get hottest fastest need the best airflow over them.

The Startech unit seemed like the worst of the ones I saw, it appeared to be probably molded plastic with only the fins on two sides.

Hard to cool, because you probably really need airflow coming down both of those sides IMO.

This one looks like extruded aluminum, which is likely to give better heat spreading results:

And these two look like someone put some actual time and care into venting and cooling considerations.

None of this implies anything more than my superficial glancing at a bunch of images to pick some interesting bits out at first impression. The ones with significant fins or venting win only because I am more convinced I can "fix" cooling problems with a fan. It is specifically not a purchase recommendation because I have no idea about the chipsets used etc.

If their cases have standoffs that are in contact with the chip, and it sounds like they do, would opening the case up and applying thermal paste to the standoffs help?

Depends. Some of the stuff "came from China" is assembled by low paid labor that barely cares that all the parts make it into the case. If you watch Big Clive tear apart dodgy bits of eBay cruft, wires get reversed, quality control may be at a minimum, etc. It is very similar with some of the more technically sophisticated gear ... poor design, lack of thermal paste, too much thermal paste, poor coupling between a component and aluminum extrusion, etc. So much can go wrong and lots of it is "inherent by design". Skepticism is good.

Also, do you have any experience with Thunderbolt bridging between TN and non-TN devices? Is it supported?

I do not, I am sorry. I do a lot of hardware work but I do relatively little with Thunderbolt.

 

[Etorix]

It is specifically not a purchase recommendation because I have no idea about the chipsets used etc.

ACQ107 all over the place because these products are all designed to provide a 10 GbE links for Macs which do not have it onboard.
Which should be fine for use on the client side.

Also, do you have any experience with Thunderbolt bridging between TN and non-TN devices? Is it supported?

No experience either, but the most likely answer is that Thunderbolt is not supported on CORE and, on the odd chance that some support is still present on SCALE, it may be removed at any time for the sake of making the system leaner. No one expects Thunderbolt network to be of use for a NAS, and TrueNAS is not meant to be a DAS.