My first build

[eleleno]

Hi, i'd like to know if this build works for running FreeNas. I plan on using it for storage, Plex, ownCloud.

Corsair PowerSupply CS450M 450W
Fractal Design Node 304
2x Kingston 8GB (1x8GB) / 1600MHz / DDR3L / CL11 / ECC
Super Micro MBD-A1SAI-2750F-O C2750

I won't be having more than 6 disks, is 450W enough for this?
And do I need to buy some extra fan?

Thanks

 

[nojohnny101]

See this thread for PSU sizing guide to see if your PSU is sufficient:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

Also what size drives will you be using? Keep in mind the 1GB RAM for every 1TB of raw storage.

 

[Nick2253]

For mini-ITX Avoton boards, the AsRock C2750D4I (http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Specifications) is pretty popular here. The big reasons are the 12x SATA ports, and the ability to use full-size memory DIMMs (the SuperMicro mobo you've identified requires SO-DIMMs). The AsRock mobo can often be found cheaper in the US, though I don't know what it's like in Sweden.

Again, make sure you've selected SO-DIMMs for that mobo. Kingston is not a tested memory manufacturer, so if you have the option, I'd look for memory from the "Tested Memory" list on SuperMicro's website.

How many users do you anticipate using the system simultaneously?

 

[Spearfoot]

Hi, i'd like to know if this build works for running FreeNas. I plan on using it for storage, Plex, ownCloud.

Corsair PowerSupply CS450M 450W
Fractal Design Node 304
2x Kingston 8GB (1x8GB) / 1600MHz / DDR3L / CL11 / ECC
Super Micro MBD-A1SAI-2750F-O C2750

I won't be having more than 6 disks, is 450W enough for this?
And do I need to buy some extra fan?

Thanks

Welcome to the forum!

450W should be plenty of power for this system.

Search the forum for discussion of the Node 304 case; quite a few users like them, but others have difficulty keeping hard drives reasonably cool in them. So, yes - you may need to modify the fans.

Using a pair of DIMM modules gives you better performance because of interleaving, but using 8GB instead of 16GB modules limits you to a maximum of 32GB instead 64GB, should you ever choose to upgrade your memory. Depending on your needs, the 16GB you plan to install right away may be all the RAM you'll ever need.

What size hard drives do you plan to use? How do you plan to configure them? Despite not knowing your planned usage, I recommend RAIDZ2 as the best all-purpose topology for most home users. Low RPM drives like the Western Digital Red models run a little cooler than 7200 RPM drives and thus might be a better choice for use in your Node 304 case. And as @nojohnny101 pointed out above, you may need more RAM if you're planning on using 6 x 8TB drives!

How do you plan to install FreeNAS? On a USB stick? The SanDisk Cruzer Fit USB 2.0 flash drives are a good choice for this purpose.

Good luck!

 

[eleleno]

Thank you all for the quick replies.

See this thread for PSU sizing guide to see if your PSU is sufficient:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

Also what size drives will you be using? Keep in mind the 1GB RAM for every 1TB of raw storage.

Great link.
I'll keep that in mind.
I plan on buying 4TB WD Red, starting with 2 of them.

For mini-ITX Avoton boards, the AsRock C2750D4I (http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Specifications) is pretty popular here. The big reasons are the 12x SATA ports, and the ability to use full-size memory DIMMs (the SuperMicro mobo you've identified requires SO-DIMMs). The AsRock mobo can often be found cheaper in the US, though I don't know what it's like in Sweden.

Again, make sure you've selected SO-DIMMs for that mobo. Kingston is not a tested memory manufacturer, so if you have the option, I'd look for memory from the "Tested Memory" list on SuperMicro's website.

How many users do you anticipate using the system simultaneously?

The Kingstons are SO-DIMMs. I tried to find a seller for the tested ones but no luck there.

What is your experience with AsRock? I've gotten the impression that the motherboards from AsRock are not as reliable as Super Micro.

No more than 2-3 simultaneous users.

Welcome to the forum!

450W should be plenty of power for this system.

Search the forum for discussion of the Node 304 case; quite a few users like them, but others have difficulty keeping hard drives reasonably cool in them. So, yes - you may need to modify the fans.

Using a pair of DIMM modules gives you better performance because of interleaving, but using 8GB instead of 16GB modules limits you to a maximum of 32GB instead 64GB, should you ever choose to upgrade your memory. Depending on your needs, the 16GB you plan to install right away may be all the RAM you'll ever need.

What size hard drives do you plan to use? How do you plan to configure them? Despite not knowing your planned usage, I recommend RAIDZ2 as the best all-purpose topology for most home users. Low RPM drives like the Western Digital Red models run a little cooler than 7200 RPM drives and thus might be a better choice for use in your Node 304 case. And as @nojohnny101 pointed out above, you may need more RAM if you're planning on using 6 x 8TB drives! :)

How do you plan to install FreeNAS? On a USB stick? The SanDisk Cruzer Fit USB 2.0 flash drives are a good choice for this purpose.

Good luck!

Thank you!

See above for the disks.

I had trouble finding any larger memory with ecc, but I probably won't need 64GB.

I thought about buying a smaller SSD because I read that USBs tend to die after a while. Is it working well for you?

 

[Nick2253]

I would say that as a general rule, ASRock mobos are not as reliable as SuperMicro, but I think that the difference in practice is minimal, especially for home use. There is currently a (workaroundable) bug with the ASRock Avoton boards that has caused premature failure, but unfortunately SuperMicro has suffered similar problems in the past; in other words, all manufacturers have their problems, some more recently than others.

In an enterprise environment, I would only go with SuperMicro, because that extra reliability would be worth it. In a home environment, uptime isn't critical to me, so a failure wouldn't be the end of the world, and I'd rather save the money/get the better features.

If you've got the ports, I'd recommend going SSD over USB. I've personally had one USB drive die on me in the ~2 years I've used FreeNAS, but I also wouldn't sweat it too much if you don't have the extra port. Just go with mirrored USBs, backup your config regularly, and keep a spare on hand in the event you need it.

 

[Spearfoot]

I thought about buying a smaller SSD because I read that USBs tend to die after a while. Is it working well for you?

An SSD will use one of the SATA ports on your motherboard, where a USB stick does not. If you plan on using 6 hard drives, requiring all 6 of your motherboard's SATA ports, then your only choice will be to use a USB stick. Of course, if you follow @Nick2253's advice and use the AsRock board you'll have plenty of SATA ports and this won't be a consideration.

I've been booting two systems from the Cruzer Fit sticks for a little over a year with no problems.

 

[Mirfster]

HBA FTW... :P

 

[eleleno]

I would say that as a general rule, ASRock mobos are not as reliable as SuperMicro, but I think that the difference in practice is minimal, especially for home use. There is currently a (workaroundable) bug with the ASRock Avoton boards that has caused premature failure, but unfortunately SuperMicro has suffered similar problems in the past; in other words, all manufacturers have their problems, some more recently than others.

In an enterprise environment, I would only go with SuperMicro, because that extra reliability would be worth it. In a home environment, uptime isn't critical to me, so a failure wouldn't be the end of the world, and I'd rather save the money/get the better features.

If you've got the ports, I'd recommend going SSD over USB. I've personally had one USB drive die on me in the ~2 years I've used FreeNAS, but I also wouldn't sweat it too much if you don't have the extra port. Just go with mirrored USBs, backup your config regularly, and keep a spare on hand in the event you need it.

Alright, thanks. The price is practically the same here so I'll go for the Super Micro.

HBA FTW... :p

?

What are the risks of using memory that isn't on the "Tested Memory List"?

 

[Nick2253]

The risks are that it won't work.

Now, in theory, everything is designed to certain standards, so everything should be inter-compatible. However, in practice, this isn't always the case.

 

[Mirfster]

?

HBA = Host Bus Adapter... For when you want more drives than your Motherboard has SATA Ports. ;)

 

[Spearfoot]

HBA FTW
?

HBA = Host Bus Adapter
@Mirfster is suggesting that you could add an HBA to your system to get more SATA ports to support more than 6 drives, thus allowing you to boot from an SSD and run 6 hard drives, too.

 

[joeschmuck]

Keep in mind the 1GB RAM for every 1TB of raw storage.

That depends on what you are using the NAS for and in most cases for a FreeNAS system it is an old rule that we should stop mentioning unless it is used properly. If it's a huge "high use, high demand" file server, sure then use the rule. For a home server doing what the OP desires, 16GB is more than fine but if the OP can afford two 16GB DIMMs would be the better starting point for reasons @Spearfoot has listed. I didn't read the motherboard user manual to see if it will run on a single 16GB DIMM but if it can, maybe that is the starting point. Keep in mind what the RAM is being used for, its really is paramount when designing a system.

As for hard drives for your storage requirements, it's pretty simple to figure things out here...
1) How much storage space do you think you need for the next 3 years? (make an educated guess)
2) Double that storage space and that is what you need. You double it because you will more than likely need more than you expected, and you must leave a portion of the space empty for the system to run well.
3) How safe do you want your data from hard drive failure? We recommend RAIDZ2 for most people. If you need to use large capacity hard drives to achieve the space requirements you need (6TB or larger) then it takes considerable time to rebuild the new hard drive (many times it can take days depending on the system) and if there is another drive failure, well then your data is one drive away from being gone. Again, RAIDZ2 is recommended most, mirrors and RAIDZ3 are options as well.

You said you wanted to start with two 4TB drives. Realize that you must understand the proper way to add hard drives into your system and if you choose the wrong way, your data will be at risk. No one here wants to see that happen so if you have any questions about this, please ask.

There has been a suggestion on changing your motherboard to the ASRock C7250D4I and that is not a bad idea. It gives you the flexibility to add more drives, or even a SSD boot drive (I highly recommend a single small SSD as a boot device).

I can't speak to the case but just make sure that you have good airflow.

 

[nojohnny101]

That depends on what you are using the NAS for and in most cases for a FreeNAS system it is an old rule that we should stop mentioning unless it is used properly. If it's a huge "high use, high demand" file server, sure then use the rule. For a home server doing what the OP desires, 16GB is more than fine but if the OP can afford two 16GB DIMMs would be the better starting point for reasons @Spearfoot has listed.

Fair enough. I didn't know that "rule of thumb" was outdated or that it pertained to only "high use, high demand" systems. I originally posted that recommendation because the OP didn't specify what size drives he was using initially. If he would have started off with 6TB x 6 disks then would 16GB still be enough? Honest question and would like your insight @joeschmuck. I am currently running my system with 6 x 3TB in Raidz2 and only have 16GB of RAM! System has been stable and running just fine.

@joeschmuck gives good advice, particularly about really thinking about your storage needs a couple of years down the line. taking time and developing a proper plan with vdev size, raidz1,2,3,etc, drive size, etc. can really prevent pains in the future when (not if) you run out of space and you need more space. I don't know your technical level but if you haven't already, read cyberjock's noob slideshow for straightforward explanation of pools, vdevs, raidz levels, etc. Find it here

Good luck!

 

[joeschmuck]

Honest question and would like your insight @joeschmuck. I am currently running my system with 6 x 3TB in Raidz2 and only have 16GB of RAM! System has been stable and running just fine.

You made my point.

FreeNAS needs about 6GB RAM to run (not taking into account adding demanding plugins or jails), but it runs better with more RAM. Also you will hear that 8GB is the minimum but that was only due to typical RAM sizes available, it's not popular to see 6GB in a system, also some motherboards use RAM resource like video may take a few MB/GB for itself (you should always minimize this in the BIOS if it's an option). The RAM is used as cache (ARC) and in a demanding system this cache is needed for performance. I'm not sure what the minimum RAM specs will be for FreeNAS 10, as far as I know it will not change but I believe in a little future proofing too and 16GB is a fair amount of RAM.

I'd like to say that everyone should know how FreeNAS works if they are going to try to design a system but that makes things difficult, and honestly, I don't know it all either, far from it. I'd like to see a new thread which talks about all these aspects and are not just cookie cutter things like "you need 8GB RAM minimum" or the RAM rule of thumb. Explain why and then the person putting together components will hopefully understand what and why they need 16GB RAM to do what they expect. Also I'd lock the thread and create a Q&A thread for it just to keep the data separated. Nothing confuses people more than 36 pages on a forum and lets face it, we all read the first page and skip the middle. This brings to mind my first FreeNAS system, my AMD system (listed as my FreeNAS Test System) and everyone was against it for one reason or another. I did my research and guess what, it worked without an issue. Still works and I'll be installing FreeNAS 10 Beta on it after I get my truck headlights out of my computer room (big boxes blocking my way). I had to make one hardware upgrade when FreeNAS 9.3 came out, an Intel NIC so I could saturate my Ethernet.

Sorry, got off on a tangent.

@joeschmuck gives good advice, particularly about really thinking about your storage needs a couple of years down the line.

Thanks. But I failed to say why it should encompass 3 years down the road. Most hard drive warranties last 3 years, and most hard drives last longer than 3 years but you should financially plan to replace your drives in 3 years. If you have a drive failure at 3.5 years and it's not under warranty, you should re-evaluate your storage needs. Did your needs go up, stay the same, or drop. If they stayed the same or dropped then the answer is easy, buy the same sized drive to replace the failed drive. If your storage needs went up (most peoples will) then it's time to see what changes you want to make to your pool. Most people will just buy a larger drive and pop it in and then start replacing the rest of the drives with larger ones. If you find out that your storage needs are actually pretty low then you may be able to rebuild your entire pool (not replace a single drive with a smaller drive) with smaller drives or maybe just less drives. It's a lot to talk about. As you did in your posting, @cyberjock has a great reference on pool/vdev and it should be read by everyone.

 

[nojohnny101]

You made my point.

FreeNAS needs about 6GB RAM to run (not taking into account adding demanding plugins or jails), but it runs better with more RAM. Also you will hear that 8GB is the minimum but that was only due to typical RAM sizes available, it's not popular to see 6GB in a system, also some motherboards use RAM resource like video may take a few MB/GB for itself (you should always minimize this in the BIOS if it's an option). The RAM is used as cache (ARC) and in a demanding system this cache is needed for performance. I'm not sure what the minimum RAM specs will be for FreeNAS 10, as far as I know it will not change but I believe in a little future proofing too and 16GB is a fair amount of RAM.

Yes, I did. I should have clarified in my first post that it is a "general rule of thumb" and not hard and fast by any means (as is the case with my setup). Makes a lot of sense to recommend 8GB vs 6GB, you're right, rare to see RAM purchased in the 6GB capacity.

I'd like to say that everyone should know how FreeNAS works if they are going to try to design a system but that makes things difficult, and honestly, I don't know it all either, far from it. I'd like to see a new thread which talks about all these aspects and are not just cookie cutter things like "you need 8GB RAM minimum" or the RAM rule of thumb. Explain why and then the person putting together components will hopefully understand what and why they need 16GB RAM to do what they expect.

Completely agree but in reality, I think an approach where, when someone asks minimum system requirements, 8GB is stated but then a link to your recommended thread is given as well is more realistic. FreeNAS is incredibly stable when setup properly and I would argue that a good amount of people (maybe no majority, but good amount) who want to build a FreeNAS system don't have time time or inclination to learn the intricacies of how FreeNAS uses RAM, why it uses so much, and how having less than one needs hurts performance. Does this community really want to alienate or discourage someone through the bombardment of information who would otherwise be perfectly happy if 8GB was recommended (or 16GB if appropriate) and their system ran just fine for years to come.

Now I am not advocating at all people just stupidly stumble into a build and take blindly the recommendations of people here without having knowledge themselves by reading and understanding some basic principles. I think everyone must understand pools, vdevs, what the different raidz configurations mean, shares, datasets, and some other things that are foundational to setting up and operating FreeNAS. Understanding the details of how RAM is used in FreeNAS does not strike me as absolutely necessary in order to successfully setup a server. Yes, it certainly helps and will always add to someone's ability to solve their own problems when they come, but from my understanding (albeit limited) problems are rare that have to deal with insufficient RAM (correct me if I'm wrong here).

It's a balance. Too much detail and required reading bogs people down and can inhibit the growth of this community. Of course we all want everyone who wants to build a FreeNAS machine and comes to these forums for help to read until their eyes bleed ;) but I hope a middle ground is kept open for those who have time to understand FreeNAS to a degree that allows them to build, setup and run a server that meets their needs.

I am most likely coming from this perspective because I personally do not have time to be reading all the intricate details of ZFS and FreeBSD but love to play with the software and hardware when I can.

 

[joeschmuck]

Understanding the details of how RAM is used in FreeNAS does not strike me as absolutely necessary in order to successfully setup a server.

In my opinion understanding what the RAM is used for is just as important as figuring out the design of your pool. I think we see things from a different light. You see it as what will it take to make the server operational. I see if from what will make the server optimal, not just operational. And while 16GB RAM will still be optimal for many home users, we shouldn't just accept it without asking what the system will be used for just in case this particular user really needed more RAM.

 

[nojohnny101]

In my opinion understanding what the RAM is used for is just as important as figuring out the design of your pool. I think we see things from a different light. You see it as what will it take to make the server operational. I see if from what will make the server optimal, not just operational. And while 16GB RAM will still be optimal for many home users, we shouldn't just accept it without asking what the system will be used for just in case this particular user really needed more RAM.

Fair enough. It is never wise to just "accept things" and I hope anyone giving advice on here does ask questions and helps as much to customize the system to the user's current and anticipated needs, which is often the case.

Cheers.