BUILD Low-powered home server build.

[Thomas8675309]

I'm building a home back-up server, my first FreeNAS system (although I've built a few non-FreeNAS systems in the past). My goal is to make it reasonably efficient and quiet.

My proposed build:

1 x Intel Core i3 3220T 35W CPU
1 x Intel S1200BTSR Micro ATX Server Motherboard
2 x Kingston KVR16E11/8I 8GB DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered 1600 Server Memory
6 x Seagate NAS HDD ST2000VN000 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive
1 x SeaSonic SSR-360GP 360W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Active PFC Power Supply
1 x LIAN LI PC-V354B Black Aluminum MicroATX Mini Tower Computer Case
1 x Silverstone PP07-BTSB 11.81" Extension Power Supply Cable, 1 x 4pin to 4 x SATA connectors

I welcome any general comments or suggestions on my build choices. I also have the following specific questions:

1. Intel vs. Supermicro motherboard. I chose this Intel motherboard because I've successfully used Intel motherboards on prior (non-FreeNAS) builds and because Intel specifically states that the S1200BTSR is compatible with the Core i3 3220T. I know a lot of folks here recommend Supermicro boards. Would I be better off using a Supermicro board (for example, the MBD-X9SCM-F-O) instead of using an Intel board?

2. Ivy Bridge vs. Haswell. The 3220T is a 35W Socket 1155 3rd generation Core i3 that (like all 3rd generation Core i3s) supports ECC memory. (See http://ark.intel.com/products/65694/Intel-Core-i3-3220T-Processor-3M-Cache-2_80-GHz). For almost the same money, I could instead use an i3-4130T, which is a 35W Socket 1150 4th generation Core i3 that (like all 4th generation Core i3s) also supports ECC memory. (See http://ark.intel.com/products/77481/Intel-Core-i3-4130T-Processor-3M-Cache-2_90-GHz). Oddly, Intel does not yet have any micro ATX motherboards supporting that processor, but Supermicro does - for example, the Supermicro MBD-X10SLM-F-O. Should I go with the newer Haswell CPU, or stick with the Ivy Bridge CPU?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Best regards.

Tom

 

[cyberjock]

I have the X9SCM-F-O and I love it. The IPMI is so handy I'll never go back to a non-IPMI based system ever again. The only complaint I'd have for your build is the board. IPMI is a must for me. Especially since I don't hook up a monitor and keyboard to the system. Personally, I have the E3-1230v2 and it works great. Lots of speed and works great. I wouldn't spend extra money for Haswell, but if it comes at the same price(or only slightly more) I might go with it.

The X9SCM-F-O says it supports "Intel® Xeon® processor E3-1200 & v2 series, Intel® 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen Core i3, Intel® Pentium® and Celeron processors" so I'd presume your i3 will work.

Per the Intel ARK, ECC isn't supported with that CPU. It's a long dark maze to find out the truth(many do work even if Intel doesn't announce it to the world) but I prefer to stick to stuff that is claimed to be supported. I'd hate to be the poor soul that finds out the hard way that 3 BIOS revisions ago ECC stopped working for you and you didn't know until the pool was eaten by bad RAM. But that's more of a personal choice.

 

[Thomas8675309]

Thank you very much for responding - that is all helpful.

One follow-up question. You said:

Per the Intel ARK, ECC isn't supported with that CPU. It's a long dark maze to find out the truth(many do work even if Intel doesn't announce it to the world) but I prefer to stick to stuff that is claimed to be supported.

The links to the Intel ARK that I posted for both CPUs (http://ark.intel.com/products/65694/Intel-Core-i3-3220T-Processor-3M-Cache-2_80-GHz and http://ark.intel.com/products/77481/Intel-Core-i3-4130T-Processor-3M-Cache-2_90-GHz) expressly state that ECC is supported.

ECC Memory Supported‡: Yes

Granted, there is that silly footnote:

This feature may not be available on all computing systems. Please check with the system vendor to determine if your system delivers this feature, or reference the system specifications (motherboard, processor, chipset, power supply, HDD, graphics controller, memory, BIOS, drivers, virtual machine monitor-VMM, platform software, and/or operating system) for feature compatibility. Functionality, performance, and other benefits of this feature may vary depending on system configuration.

But the Intel ARK includes exactly that same footnote when it says that your Xeon E3-1230v2 supports ECC - see http://ark.intel.com/products/65732/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1230-v2-8M-Cache-3_30-GHz. In other words, the Intel ARK makes exactly the same claim about 3rd and 4th generation i3 Core CPUs supporting ECC memory that the Intel ARK makes about Xeon CPUs supporting ECC memory.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I've read dozens of your posts over the last week as I researched my build, and I have found them incredibly helpful. I realize that what you have forgotten about FreeNAS and FreeNAS builds is considerably more than I can ever hope to know.

But is it possible that you're confusing the 1st and 2nd generation Core i3s - which the Intel ARK does not claim supports ECC memory - with the 3rd and 4th generation Core i3s I described in my post? Because it would be more than a little misleading for Intel to state on the ARK that the 3rd and 4th generation Core i3s support ECC memory if in fact they don't.

EDIT: Also, this Intel FAQ (http://www.intel.com/support/processors/corei3/sb/CS-031175.htm) says:

Does the Intel® Core™ i3 processor support Error Correction Code (ECC) memory?

The Previous Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors and the 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors do not support ECC memory. The 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i3 Processors support ECC memory.

Thanks again.

Tom

 

[cyberjock]

Yeah. Somehow I didn't see the ECC support in the ARK. I always go straight to the CPU itself because there's so many exceptions and whatnot. Intel had really fubared the whole ECC support thing IMO. I can never make heads or tails of what does or doesn't work except that if you buy a Xeon with a server board you definitely have ECC support. Everything else you pretty much have to look up.

That cryptic Intel footnote about ECC support is because the desktop chipsets don't enable ECC while the server chipsets do.

 

[Whattteva]

Yeah. Somehow I didn't see the ECC support in the ARK. I always go straight to the CPU itself because there's so many exceptions and whatnot. Intel had really fubared the whole ECC support thing IMO. I can never make heads or tails of what does or doesn't work except that if you buy a Xeon with a server board you definitely have ECC support. Everything else you pretty much have to look up.

That cryptic Intel footnote about ECC support is because the desktop chipsets don't enable ECC while the server chipsets do.

Does this mean that if we want to be perfectly safe, Xeon + server board is the only way to go?

 

[Dusan]

3rd gen i3 (Sandy Bridge) are definitely OK. There are also indications that 2nd gen i3s work too (however, Intel doesn't claim official support in this case): http://www.supermicro.com/support/faqs/faq.cfm?faq=12745.

However, in your case:
S1200SBR is an entry level server board and officially supports ECC: http://ark.intel.com/products/67302
i3-3220T officially supports ECC: http://ark.intel.com/products/65694
Both are the same manufacturer.
There is absolutely no reason for ECC not to work.

 

[Dusan]

Yeah. Somehow I didn't see the ECC support in the ARK. I always go straight to the CPU itself because there's so many exceptions and whatnot. Intel had really fubared the whole ECC support thing IMO. I can never make heads or tails of what does or doesn't work except that if you buy a Xeon with a server board you definitely have ECC support. Everything else you pretty much have to look up.

That cryptic Intel footnote about ECC support is because the desktop chipsets don't enable ECC while the server chipsets do.

Actually, with Intel it's super easy. If the board & CPU officially support ECC (check ARK) it will work. The only confusion is when people try to use parts that do not officially support ECC (like 2nd gen i3s, which it seems happen to work too).

Also, the cryptic footnote is not about desktop chipsets enabling or disabling something. It is about physically supporting 8 additional pins on the memory modules (pins CB[7:0]). There are desktop boards that support ECC: http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-009023.htm

 

[Dusan]

I know a lot of folks here recommend Supermicro boards. Would I be better off using a Supermicro board (for example, the MBD-X9SCM-F-O) instead of using an Intel board?

I'm also one of the Supermicro users (X9SCL). Reason? It works :). It's usually cheaper (at least in my part of the world). And, as cyberjock already mentioned, it has one killer feature -- IPMI/BMC. My FreeNAS server never had a physical monitor or keyboard connected. You can do everything (including OS installation, BIOS configuration, console access, power up/down, ...) via IPMI/BMC even from miles away.

 

[fenix793]

Hi Thomas,

I'm actually working on a similar build. Instead of the Intel board I think I'll be going with the Supermicro MBD-X10SLL-F-O to use with a Haswell i3 4130. I'm pretty sure I want to encrypt my drives and the 4130 has AES-NI so I won't have to take a performance hit for encryption. It seems AES-NI is included in Haswell i3s but not earlier i3 gens and I don't want to shell out for a Xeon. I would like to get the 4130T for the 35W but the 4130 is a 54W part and I have an MC nearby that sells them for $119. You may want to consider getting one of the newer Supermicro boards and a Haswell CPU since the price should be close either way and the Haswell CPU will have the AES instructions. Also everyone here talks about Supermicro boards so I'm guessing they're solid.

Other than that I'm using 2x 3TB Seagate NAS drives along with a Lian Li PC V355B. Starting with two drives for now. Case has room for four and it'll take me a while to expand. Since you have six drives I think you need to get the V354B. If you haven't bought the drives yet consider going with 3TB drives. I'll also be using the same power supply, seems to be the go to PSU for low end NAS. Finally, for RAM I'll be going with KVR1333D3E9SK2/16G which is a 16GB kit that is a slightly cheaper than getting two separate 8GB sticks.

Let us know what you end up doing!

 

[Thomas8675309]

Thanks for your message, Fenix. (Thanks also to Cyberjock and Dusan for your prior responses.)

So far, I've bought the case (the V354B), the SeaSonic Gold 360W PSU, and the Seagate 2TB NAS hard drives (NewEgg had a deal on them a week or so ago). I'm still figuring out the CPU, motherboard, and memory. I placed an order with what I thought was a reputable online retailer for an E3-1230Lv3 CPU, which is a 25W Haswell Xeon. They retailer claimed on the website to have it in stock, but after I ordered it, they emailed me that there would be a two-week wait while it was shipped from overseas. Assuming they come through and I actually get the processor, I expect I'll buy the same motherboard you mentioned or one of its Supermicro brethren. Note that that motherboard accepts low voltage memory as well as regular memory. Low voltage memory saves you a negligible amount of power - maybe a dollar or two worth a year - but seems to cost the same as regular memory, and theoretically would make case temperature marginally lower, so there's little downside I can see. If the E3-1230Lv3 turns out to be vapor-ware (like the E3-1220L, which I can't find anywhere), I'll probably do something like you're doing, with either the i3-4130T or the i3-4130, and the board you're using. My other option is to buy a E3-1230v2 (MC is selling them for $200), in which case I'll buy something like the X9SCM-F-O. If I go that route, I'll measure how much power the rig uses at idle and, if necessary, I can try turning off two of the four cores to see what impact on power consumption it has.

Best regards.

Tom

 

[cyberjock]

The E3-1230V2 with 32GB of Kingston DDR3 1600Mhz and no drives except the FreeNAS USB stick attached draws about right around 35w idle.

 

[Dusan]

(like the E3-1220L, which I can't find anywhere)

I have one E3-1220Lv2 that I do not use, PM me if you want it.

 

[Thomas8675309]

The E3-1230V2 with 32GB of Kingston DDR3 1600Mhz and no drives except the FreeNAS USB stick attached draws about right around 35w idle.

Yeah, thanks, I had seen that in your FreeNAS Guide slides, and found it encouraging. It suggested several things to me:

(1) PSU efficiency is probably the single most important thing to help keep the power usage down, and is likely more important than choosing between a 35W or 69W CPU. That's why everyone recommends going with something certified as 80PLUS gold.
(2) The marginal gains from a lot of this stuff are probably negligible at best. For example, turning off two of the four E3-1230v2 cores is unlikely to save more than 15W at idle, and perhaps less than that. So for me that's roughly $15 of savings a year. If I'm really trying to save $, efforts at reducing FreeNAS power consumption are not the critical path. My best bet to save money would be to (a) buy the i3-4130T, which I can purchase for about $70 less than a E3-1230v2, and (b) replace a few more 60W light bulbs with CFL bulbs at home.
(3) For my home purposes, an E3-1230v2 is massive overkill. For experimentation purposes, there's no reason for me not to try turning off two cores and seeing what happens. For production use, though, I expect I would leave all 4 cores on unless the savings were more dramatic than what I think they will be.
(4) Unless I keep the rig running 24/7 for over a decade - pretty unlikely - I will never recover the cost differential between buying a 25W E3-1230Lv3 (around $250) - my current plan - and buying a 35W i3-4130T (around $135). But no harm in doing it either.

So clearly, I'm not doing this to save money, but to see what I can accomplish in making something reliable, stable, quiet, and low-powered. But if I can do it cheap too, all the better. A Supermicro board, i3-4130T, 16GB of Kingston ECC memory, and a 360W Seasonic 80PLUS gold PSU should be less than $500 all in. Just throw in the case, disks, and UPS (all of which I already have), and I'm all set. That's the route I'll probably go if the E3-1230Lv3 doesn't work out.

Cheers.

Tom

 

[cyberjock]

Yep. You pretty much summed up saving power in a nutshell. And Intel CPUs shutdown cores almost completely, so I'd be shocked if you saved even 5 watts if you turned off all the cores you could. Of course, performance would suck.

But yeah, some people will spend stupendous amounts of money to save what might amount to 30w of saving for their computer and then not buy CFLs to replace 400w+ of lighting in their kitchen.

 

[Thomas8675309]

Intel CPUs shutdown cores almost completely, so I'd be shocked if you saved even 5 watts if you turned off all the cores you could.

Ah. I knew Intel had made improvements in this area, but I didn't realize they had improved that much - good to know. When I have some time this weekend or next, I'll hook up a kill-a-watt and measure for myself.

Tom

 

[cyberjock]

If you get the 1220LV2 I'd definitely be curious to see what the killawatt says. I bet its less than 5 watts idle.

 

[Dusan]

I experimented with a 1220Lv2 for a bit. From my notes:
E3-1220Lv2, X9SCL, 2 memory sticks, Seasonic G360, 5 spun down WD REDs = 30W idle
(PSUs are slightly more effective when running on 230V, so you may see slightly higher consumption with 110V)

 

[cyberjock]

Wow... even with all of that, only 5 watts... Guess I can laugh at those people that drop $400 for the "low power CPU". haha

 

[Dusan]

Is actually a ~7.5W difference. As compared to your system (no disks), this was measured with 5 spun down WD REDs -- those consume about 0.5 W each in standby. The measurement was done with FreeNAS 8.3.1. It seems, Windows is able to handle the CPU power management better in this case, I measured ~26-28W with Windows 8.
(Yes, I tried with/without powerd and also various CPU power state related sysctls but the difference was less than 1W).

 

[Thomas8675309]

Just for grins, and to test cyberjock's assertion that Intel CPUs shut down cores almost completely at idle, I measured my desktop system (i3-2120T 35W CPU, integrated graphics, one SSD, slim DVD R/W, 2 sticks DDR3 memory, 150W Antec mini-itx PSU). Running Ubuntu 12.04 at idle at the log-in screen (which means X is running), it drew 32W. I then shut it down, turned off one of the CPU's two cores in the BIOS, and measured again and it was ... 32W.

I'll try similar measurements on my FreeNAS system once I get it built ... once I get my CPU.

Cheers.

Tom