Is FreeNAS right for me? (A short story)

[johnblanker]

Here is the question:

Is there another NAS OS out there that is a little more servernoob-friendly, can provide data-rot correction like freeNAS? I know FreeNAS is meant for enterprise systems, meant to be left running 24/7 and has great features like jails and other things. But is it overkill for my needs? Should I just forget about data-rot? Let me explain......

I hope speaking openly about other NAS software on this forum is ok. I have been reading a lot of posts, and asking questions about some hardware and data-rot and all that. I have given up trying to "find my own way" and am starting to rely on the recommendations that others have put in a lot of work writing. And I think that people here get upset when people want freeNAS to do things that it wasn't indented to do. Like that power consumption debate I just read. It made me think as to if FN is right for my needs and maybe I should look into it a little more before investing the time and money.

My current setup is pretty modest. I have 5 green hhds spanned into 1 drive using Windows disk manager. On this spanned drive are just BD ISOs that I feed my Dune smart player via Windows SMB shares. Windows 7 is my "server" OS. Maybe 5 nights a week I will turn it on to watch a movie and then it goes to sleep right after. I have the same array of disks setup in an esata enclosure (my backup) and I use "freefilesync" to sync these 2 arrays every week or so. I also have a third array off site that I sync every 6 months. The system works great and I love it. I would also love to put my personal data on freenas since I want to take advantage of the data-rot protection.

What brought me here was the desire for parity and data integrity. If my main array had a RAID5 setup that would offer me more (live) protection in the even of a failure, my whole array wouldn't die, and I wouldn't need to rebuild the whole array from the backup. And of course the data-rot protection.

Power consumption. I'm not a tree hugger. Maybe I am. I did the math and there is a power ($) savings for me between running the system 5-10 hours a week as opposed to 168 hours per week (24/7).

Knowledge required. I come from a Windows world and learning FreeNAS does not come easy for me. Especially when it comes to configuring user accounts. Wheel? What the hell is wheel? Reading that freenas boot log is like hieroglyphics. Some of that stuff made me laugh. Sanity checks? I know you cannot easily expand your storage pool by just adding a new disk too.

Alternatives. I have considered ditching Windows 7 (as a faux-server) and using WHS 2011 and just getting a highpoint raid controller to do RAID5. I just tried unRAID but could not get a share to hit 11mb/s on my dune. I tried OMV but found the support and documentation far from how good it is on here and unRAID's forum. I also thought about the Netgear readynas and drobo units since they claim to have data-rot protection. Or just going with a synology unit since they seem to be the talk of the town.

I trust the opinions of the member on here and value the conversation if you guys are into it. I like hearing about how you all got here. The "server" world is very interesting to me and would love to learn more about it. And if there is a need for a "Is FreeNAS right for me?" thread, maybe you can point them all here. Thanks for reading my novel.

 

[mattbbpl]

I would say it all depends on how important the data is to you. It all stems from that.

If the data is important to you, then it's worth buying the proper hardware to protect and learning the basics of maintaining that data - scheduling scrubs and SMART tests, for example.

You'll see a lot of users go into technical detail here about why ECC RAM is important, why scrubs are important, etc. Forget all of that (unless you want to learn). If you follow their advice about what you SHOULD do then you don't need to know WHY you need to do it. Just like in Windows.

You've clearly done some research to get to this point, so I'm assuming that FreeNAS isn't something completely beyond what you're willing to do. However, it also seems like the data isn't that important to you, in which case you could get up and running faster with a lesser solution (stay away from Drobos, though).

So how important is the data to you? Are you willing to lose it?

 

[johnblanker]

Thanks for reading. Well, my personal files, pictures, home videos, etc is very valuable and it is there that I see the value in data-rot protection. That is about 500GB. My movies on the other hand, are about 10TB. I have the discs, so the worst case would be losing the hundred hours it took me to manage/rip. A pain (of biblical proportions), but not irrecoverable.

I am willing to spend the money on the good hardware and invest the time in learning if the answer to the following question is "no". Are there alternatives to FreeNAS that offer the same data-rot correction for a user that wouldn't need the enterprise-level build and complexity (that FreeNAS has)?

 

[anodos]

What are your proposed hardware specs?

 

[mattbbpl]

Thanks for reading. Well, my personal files, pictures, home videos, etc is very valuable and it is there that I see the value in data-rot protection. That is about 500GB. My movies on the other hand, are about 10TB. I have the discs, so the worst case would be losing the hundred hours it took me to manage/rip. A pain (of biblical proportions), but not irrecoverable.

I am willing to spend the money on the good hardware and invest the time in learning if the answer to the following question is "no". Are there alternatives to FreeNAS that offer the same data-rot correction for a user that wouldn't need the enterprise-level build and complexity (that FreeNAS has)?

Well, the good news is that you don't really need an expensive system, you just need the right system. Someone here earlier bought a T20 for $170 from Dell which makes a great base platform (just throw in some additional RAM and your disks). It's more about just following directions, really, and not attempting to use some pre-obtained non-ECC RAM or other silliness.

The learning curve isn't steep, and the information is all in the manual (and on these forums). If you just paint by numbers and follow the how-tos, you're 90% of the way there. And we can help with the rest.

I think any system that protects against bitrot is going to have the same kind of learning curve. It needs to be built with parity, and it needs to be occasionally scrubbed. If you must protect against bitrot, FreeNAS is probably more up your alley because at least it wraps everything up in a "nice" GUI.

 

[Kevin Horton]

Synology is moving to the btrfs file system with the upcoming version 6 of their software (in beta testing now), but only on certain models (presumably the ones with higher performance CPUs and enough RAM).

 

[Dice]

I like hearing about how you all got here.

My recent write-up on that topic:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...g-from-windows-strategies-and-hardware.40382/

I think we've some points in common.

cheers / Dice

 

[johnblanker]

What are your proposed hardware specs?

Well, coming from a Windows world. I have a gigabyte ga890fxa-ud5 mobo with Sempron 45 watt cpu. Up to 16GB of ddr3 1333.

Synology is moving to the btrfs file system with the upcoming version 6 of their software (in beta testing now), but only on certain models (presumably the ones with higher performance CPUs and enough RAM).

This is really cool. Something about those NAS boxes scream "noob". I know they can do a lot but I think extra attention goes into the OS to make it extremely easy for non-server people, of course at an expense to the consumer.

Someone here earlier bought a T20 for $170 from Dell which makes a great base platform (just throw in some additional RAM and your disks).
The learning curve isn't steep, and the information is all in the manual (and on these forums). If you just paint by numbers and follow the how-tos, you're 90% of the way there. And we can help with the rest.

I think any system that protects against bitrot is going to have the same kind of learning curve. It needs to be built with parity, and it needs to be occasionally scrubbed. If you must protect against bitrot, FreeNAS is probably more up your alley because at least it wraps everything up in a "nice" GUI.

I can't live with only 4sata ports on the t20. I am looking at around $330 to $430 for a system that suits me. Not a whole lot of $ but I need to be in FreenAS for the long run to justify that purchase.
This forum and willingness of people to help is HUGE.

 

[mattbbpl]

OK, great. So you know what kind of system you need now (at least loosely). You can compare those features/prices to those of some of the packaged products and see if they meet your needs better. Then, if you decide that FreeNAS is a better fit, you can write up a post with your requirements and proposed hardware and we can help you tinker/make sure it's all compatible.

 

[Mirfster]

First off, I want say "congrats" for having the right frame of mind for actually having backups (both locally and off-site). That in itself tells me that you do care about your data.

Others have (and more will) provide some great insights. Aside from what they are saying, I will just add that you may want to have a read of cyberjock's "Slideshow explaining VDev, zpool, ZIL and L2ARC for noobs!" (linked in my signature). While it is all a highly suggested read, I would say to pay attention to the Preface section right now. He did a pretty good job at summing up things about what to expect undertaking FreeNas.

I like hearing about how you all got here

I got here mainly because Drobos (yes that means multiple times) failed me miserably...

 

[johnblanker]

OK, great. So you know what kind of system you need now (at least loosely). You can compare those features/prices to those of some of the packaged products and see if they meet your needs better. Then, if you decide that FreeNAS is a better fit, you can write up a post with your requirements and proposed hardware and we can help you tinker/make sure it's all compatible.

That's all set. I discussed it here. It's just a matter of committing to freeNAS after researching any other alternatives that might have less steep learning curves or made for home environments. I don't mean to say that I hate and don't want to learn FreeNAS, I would love to. But other things will soon take priority. Like a baby on the way in March.

First off, I want say "congrats" for having the right frame of mind for actually having backups (both locally and off-site). That in itself tells me that you do care about your data.

Others have (and more will) provide some great insights. Aside from what they are saying, I will just add that you may want to have a read of cyberjock's "Slideshow explaining VDev, zpool, ZIL and L2ARC for noobs!" (linked in my signature). While it is all a highly suggested read, I would say to pay attention to the Preface section right now. He did a pretty good job at summing up things about what to expect undertaking FreeNas.


I got here mainly because Drobos (yes that means multiple times) failed me miserably...

Thanks! I do care about all that time it took me to rip 10TB of movies! But I care more about those pictures, and home movies that I can't get back. I DLd that pptx an dplan to read it next! I need to understand that vdev, pool, jargon and understand how to expand my setup in the future. I watched thos itxsystem tuts on YT and even the 1-hour free presentation video that itxsystems gives. Very helpful. I installed FreeNAS on my spare pc to fool around with it. The new setup wizards were a nice touch. I thought "Oh wow" this makes it really easy. Until I could not access my shares on Windows. But I need to study more.

 

[ewhac]

Wheel? What the hell is wheel?

wheel: A group containing important, usually administrative, users. From the slang: "That guy is a really big wheel."

That's how I learned it, anyway...

 

[johnblanker]

wheel: A group containing important, usually administrative, users. From the slang: "That guy is a really big wheel."

That's how I learned it, anyway...

It's just amusing how, to me, it just doesn't make any logical sense. It's like they go out of their way to make it sound confusing just because they can. Kind of like Adobe products, I digress.....

 

[johnblanker]

great powerpoint by Cyberjock. Answered a lot of questions, but a couple poked up.

1. Assuming you read my modest usage requirements, Zil & L2ARC are not needed for my setup. Are they on by default and easy to turn off?
2. Do I need to use compression? It's on by default (LZ4). I don't understand the benefits of compression. I understand it from a "zip file" standpoint, but is it actually making my files smaller? Sounds cpu intensive.
3. I didn't understand the "If your not using compression" to make sure the zfs stripes fall on the 4k sector.
4. Say I have 2 vdevs, each comprised of 5 disks. When one of those disks fails, how do you identify which hdd it is in your case?
5. As far as expanding, Let's say I have one vdev of 5 hdds in my zpool. I have 1 share using the capacity of the zpool. I add another vdev of 5 drives. Don't I have to create another share to gain access to that storage? Or will that 1st share just magically grow? Where is the share located, in the vdev or the zpool?
6. What would a user choose to use nas4free over freenas? or vice versa

thanks again everyone. I am learning a lot. Good thing work is slow:D

 

[depasseg]

1. Assuming you read my modest usage requirements, Zil & L2ARC are not needed for my setup. Are they on by default and easy to turn off?

ZIL is manadatory and can't be disabled. SLOG and L2ARC are optional and you would actually configure your pool to include them.

2. Do I need to use compression? It's on by default (LZ4). I don't understand the benefits of compression. I understand it from a "zip file" standpoint, but is it actually making my files smaller? Sounds cpu intensive.

It's suggested to leave compression on. It saves a bit of space on the hard drives and doesn't use much cpu.

4. Say I have 2 vdevs, each comprised of 5 disks. When one of those disks fails, how do you identify which hdd it is in your case?

The best way is to prepare for failure. Label all your disks ahead of time so you know which serial number is in which slot. @Bidule0hm has some great scripts to help with this.

5. As far as expanding, Let's say I have one vdev of 5 hdds in my zpool. I have 1 share using the capacity of the zpool. I add another vdev of 5 drives. Don't I have to create another share to gain access to that storage? Or will that 1st share just magically grow? Where is the share located, in the vdev or the zpool?

Shares are assigned to datasets. And datasets are part of your pool. The only time you will see or deal with vdevs is if you are expanding your volume and are adding a vdev. The rest of the time is spent in pools and datasets. So if you add a vdev to the pool, the pool grows and that space is available to the datasets (and therefore the shares).

 

[mattbbpl]

1. Yes, simply don't set them (SLOG and L2ARC) up during installation.
2. You are unlikely to benefit from compression since most of your space is video and images (which are already compressed). I have compression off on mine for a similar use case.
6. Typically I've seen users choose Nas4Free because they don't want to use the proper hardware for FreeNAS. Using Nas4Free with the UFS filesystem alleviates many of the requirements, but then you lose the bitrot protection.

I'll let others chime in one the other questions.

 

[johnblanker]

Thanks guys. on #1 I'm still confused. I took (the picture below) to mean that Zil was optional (and irrelevant in my case).
I didn't see the option to not setup SLOG & L2ARC. I'll look again.
Hmmmm, datasets were not covered in the ppt. But you answered my question.

 

[Bidule0hm]

Compression is basically free as you usually don't use 100 % of your CPU. Plus if the file is already compressed LZ4 doesn't try to re-compress it so there's only a very very very little CPU usage in this case. In short, unless you're sure that you'll always put incompressible data just leave the compression to LZ4 ;)

 

[mattbbpl]

That is confusing, I agree. You'll still have a ZIL. What you don't need is a SLOG.

https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...log-zil-with-zfs-on-freenas.13633/#post-81457

 

[johnblanker]

played around with the freenas box last night. What I thought I understood in the ppt did not translate to real world experience. In the ppt CJ talked about vdevs and zpools. I saw none of that on the system. It was volumes and datasets (which weren't in the ppt at all). I did manage to get a share going though. The only way to write to it was to map it in Windows and log on with my credentials of the user account I setup in FN. I guess this isn't bad. My Dune pulled the necessary 10MB/s and was able to stream a full BD ISO.

What I would like to do is setup a share with password (home movies) this way when I am on the Dune I need to enter a PW to watch. I tried this with unRAID but once I entered the PW it let me in every time even after I rebooted the Dune.