BUILD First Build, could use a MOBO suggestion

[Vareen]

So I've checked the parts compatibility as much as I could through Google and this is what I have so far, my only issue is that going with a mITX board I have very limited options for ones with 6 on board SATA connectors. I don't mind getting an HBA card to get some additional ports for drives and maybe even go up to 8 total.

Intel Xeon E3-1246v3 3.5GHz Quad-Core processor
Mushkin Proline 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1333 Memory (ECC)
4x WD 3TB Reds 5400RPM
Silverstone DS380B mITX Tower Case
Corsair SF 450W 80+Gold Fully Modular SFX Power Supply.

And I was considering the ASRock E3C226D2I Mobo, but it's sad that it only has a max memory capacity of 16GB and I plan on expanding my total amount of storage over time. Any help is very much appreciated.

 

[Ericloewe]

Do you really need miniITX? That'll make your life more complicated.

Have you actually acquired any of the above hardware? If not, there are alternatives that have an easier time cramming your requirements into miniITX.

 

[Vareen]

Do you really need miniITX? That'll make your life more complicated.

Have you actually acquired any of the above hardware? If not, there are alternatives that have an easier time cramming your requirements into miniITX.

I've started acquiring a few of the parts that aren't size based, like the CPU and the drives. The goal I am trying to accomplish with a mITX board is to have a Nas box I can either toss in a closet or on top of a desk and not take up much space. But I am open to anything at this point

 

[Ericloewe]

Well, with Skylake you could easily cram 32GB into a miniITX board. With Xeon-D, you could even do 128GB.

 

[Vareen]

Well, with Skylake you could easily cram 32GB into a miniITX board. With Xeon-D, you could even do 128GB.

If you are referring to the Socket type, the Xeon-D's are still 1150's, and with Skylake being pretty new I need to either go with DDR3L or take a risk with DDR3 since there are reports of it not working very well because of the voltage differences. The main issue with the board I listed is that it itself does not support any more than 16GB. So my issue is trying to find a mITX board that not only supports more than 16GB of RAM for future storage expansion, but also has 4-6 SATA ports and a small enough HBA card that fits within the case. (A few people I've spoken with that own that case state that an HBA card that is ~6.3in will fit without sacrificing a HDD bay)

 

[Ericloewe]

Xeon-D's are still 1150's

No, they're not. They're BGA, so soldered directly on.

Skylake being pretty new I need to either go with DDR3L or take a risk with DDR3 since there are reports of it not working very well because of the voltage differences.

All Skylake server boards use DDR4 exclusively. It's the biggest advantage Skylake has over previous generations.

o my issue is trying to find a mITX board that not only supports more than 16GB of RAM for future storage expansion, but also has 4-6 SATA ports and a small enough HBA card that fits within the case.

You can get such a thing. With either Skylake, Atom (limited PCI-e connectivity, though) or Xeon-D ($$$). Not with Haswell.

Also, I just noticed you're using a DS380. Those things are not very well cooled and tend to require... permanent interventions to achieve usable airflow for drive cooling.

The closest thing you can get that will take a Haswell CPU and 32GB of RAM would be this: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C224D4I-14S#Specifications

It's not quite miniITX, but it fits some miniITX chassis like the Lian-Li Q26. With the advantage of not needing a separate HBA and still allowing for expansion via PCI-e.

 

[brando56894]

If you are referring to the Socket type, the Xeon-D's are still 1150's, and with Skylake being pretty new I need to either go with DDR3L or take a risk with DDR3 since there are reports of it not working very well because of the voltage differences. The main issue with the board I listed is that it itself does not support any more than 16GB. So my issue is trying to find a mITX board that not only supports more than 16GB of RAM for future storage expansion, but also has 4-6 SATA ports and a small enough HBA card that fits within the case. (A few people I've spoken with that own that case state that an HBA card that is ~6.3in will fit without sacrificing a HDD bay)

Check out the AsRock Rack C2750-D4I which has 10 SATA ports spread across three controller, an Intel M1015 will fit in there, even inside of a Silverstone DS380. I supports up to 64 GB DDR3 ECC but it will break the bank at $350/16 GB DIMM and they're damn near impossible to find, so you'll most likely be stuck at 32 GB which will only run you about $300 total.

You could also opt for a SuperMicro X10SDV, which is a bit more expensive, but supports up to 128 GB DDR 4 when using RDIMMs ($250/32 GB RDIMM) or 64 GB when using UDIMMs.

 

[Ericloewe]

Check out the AsRock Rack C2750-D4I which has 10 SATA ports spread across three controller

You mean, 8, right? And four of those are on a very dubious controller.

 

[brando56894]

You mean, 8, right? And four of those are on a very dubious controller.

Actually I meant 12! Hahaha

1. 2 SATA3 6.0Gbps, 4 SATA2 3.0Gbps by C2750
2. 4 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s by Marvell SE9230, 2 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s by Marvell SE9172

http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Specifications

I never said they were great controllers, I didn't really have an issue with all mine in use, it was just that everything is so jam packed in there and using an HBA is so much easier.

 

[Ericloewe]

Actually I meant 12! Hahaha

Yeah, I immediately went towards 8, even though I wasn't consciously subtracting the four from the SE9230.

 

[Vareen]

Check out the AsRock Rack C2750-D4I which has 10 SATA ports spread across three controller, an Intel M1015 will fit in there, even inside of a Silverstone DS380. I supports up to 64 GB DDR3 ECC but it will break the bank at $350/16 GB DIMM and they're damn near impossible to find, so you'll most likely be stuck at 32 GB which will only run you about $300 total.

You could also opt for a SuperMicro X10SDV, which is a bit more expensive, but supports up to 128 GB DDR 4 when using RDIMMs ($250/32 GB RDIMM) or 64 GB when using UDIMMs.

And I considered the C2750 since it is an SoC and then I'd have two parts in one, but then that also seems like a weak point. If I get an SoC board and the CPU dies, I have to RMA the whole thing and hope to get another one quick enough, if it fails years down the line then I have to come up with both a replacement board and CPU or another SoC. There is no way for me to replace just one of the two components, but with a Separate CPU and Mobo I'm good. Plus the Marvell controllers scare me.

 

[Vareen]

No, they're not. They're BGA, so soldered directly on.


All Skylake server boards use DDR4 exclusively. It's the biggest advantage Skylake has over previous generations.


You can get such a thing. With either Skylake, Atom (limited PCI-e connectivity, though) or Xeon-D ($$$). Not with Haswell.

Also, I just noticed you're using a DS380. Those things are not very well cooled and tend to require... permanent interventions to achieve usable airflow for drive cooling.

The closest thing you can get that will take a Haswell CPU and 32GB of RAM would be this: http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C224D4I-14S#Specifications

It's not quite miniITX, but it fits some miniITX chassis like the Lian-Li Q26. With the advantage of not needing a separate HBA and still allowing for expansion via PCI-e.

Wow, I searched for that Lian-Li case and one of the first results is another FreeNAS forum post where you posted second, thanks for remembering that more than a year old thread!. And to see that level of customer support from ASRock, I remember asking them about a board and whether it supported Hot Swap, so the guy actually went and hooked up the board and some drives to find out and tell me, sending me screen shots, I am in love with that company now.

I think I might end up going with that board and case you recommended, I'll update this once I get all the parts and start assembly regardless with what I choose.

 

[brando56894]

And I considered the C2750 since it is an SoC and then I'd have two parts in one, but then that also seems like a weak point. If I get an SoC board and the CPU dies, I have to RMA the whole thing and hope to get another one quick enough, if it fails years down the line then I have to come up with both a replacement board and CPU or another SoC. There is no way for me to replace just one of the two components, but with a Separate CPU and Mobo I'm good. Plus the Marvell controllers scare me.

Yep, I know all too well, that's exactly what happened to me about two months ago. I was messing around with my NAS in the early morning hours and went to sleep streaming stuff off of it. I woke up about 4 hours later and it was unresponsive from Kodi, then it wouldn't respond to pings, nothing was showing in the IPMI and finally nothing was showing through the VGA output. I rebooted it and the fans spun up and the IPMI worked, but that was all I got. It lasted me a little over a year. I think Silverstone's SFX PSU killed it because 3 things died within 4 months of installing it, it was rock solid for the year that I was using a SeaSonic 400w PSU.

I wanted to get a socketed board this time so I wouldn't be stuck with the same scenario if something dies again, but I couldn't find a mini-ITX board that supported 128 GB of RAM, had M2, IPMI and a good amount of SATA ports and was socketed. I found a sick little SuperMicro board months ago but it was $950, and didn't want to spend that much. Luckily I saw it's little brother which was $800 since it didn't include dual 10G NICs and even better I found an open box deal of that model for $600 :D Then about a week later I decided to ditch the DS380 for an NZXT H400 so getting a mini ITX board was kind of a waste so I could have gotten a better board with more PCI slots. Oh well.

 

[Vareen]

Yep, I know all too well, that's exactly what happened to me about two months ago. I was messing around with my NAS in the early morning hours and went to sleep streaming stuff off of it. I woke up about 4 hours later and it was unresponsive from Kodi, then it wouldn't respond to pings, nothing was showing in the IPMI and finally nothing was showing through the VGA output. I rebooted it and the fans spun up and the IPMI worked, but that was all I got. It lasted me a little over a year. I think Silverstone's SFX PSU killed it because 3 things died within 4 months of installing it, it was rock solid for the year that I was using a SeaSonic 400w PSU.

I wanted to get a socketed board this time so I wouldn't be stuck with the same scenario if something dies again, but I couldn't find a mini-ITX board that supported 128 GB of RAM, had M2, IPMI and a good amount of SATA ports and was socketed. I found a sick little SuperMicro board months ago but it was $950, and didn't want to spend that much. Luckily I saw it's little brother which was $800 since it didn't include dual 10G NICs and even better I found an open box deal of that model for $600 :D Then about a week later I decided to ditch the DS380 for an NZXT H400 so getting a mini ITX board was kind of a waste so I could have gotten a better board with more PCI slots. Oh well.

I've have personally been grappling with the idea of a non mITX board just to have more standard SATA ports available without having to use an HBA card, but for me size does really matter and I have an idea of where I want to put the NAS and even a mid size tower would probably be too big, but with some woodwork i could make it fit. I considered the C2750 or C2550 with the Node 304 or DS380, but then ran into that concern about an SoC. Before I order any parts I am definitely looking at alternative like a Mid tower like the Node 804 with a Supermicro X10SLL-F. I don't plan on having crazy amounts of drives or total storage, which with that board I can do effectively 16TB of storage (following the 16 + 1GB per TB recommendation) but my only restriction is on total size of the case because of where I plan on storing it.

 

[brando56894]

I hear ya, I tried to downsize everything (since I live in the greater NYC area where space is at a premium) and originally bought the Node 304 but immediately found that 6 bays was not enough for me, so I went with the DS380 and that thing is a nightmare in my opinion. Granted it's the only small case that fits 12 drives, 8 of which are hotswappable, but it comes at the price of essentially no air flow for the drives (I had all bays filled and the drives were 50-60C, compared to max 38C in my NZXT case) and having to remove all the drives and the drive cages any time you wanted to work on something, not to mention the complete lack of cable management. It was a fun time trying to coil up two 12" SFF-8087 breakout cables, along with 4 SATA cables, 2 molex connectors and 4 SATA power connectors, then putting them in a place where they wouldn't hit the CPU fan or the exhaust fan!

I also had to mod a plastic piece slightly so I could fit my HBA without sacrificing a 3.5" drive bay. Even better if the backplane dies (like mine did) only 6 out of the 8 connectors from the drives are accessible once you remove the backplane, otherwise you have to cut the supports out of the way, and steel doesn't cut that easily.

Just go with a mid-tower case, you won't regret it. I'm ditching my desktop to make room for my NAS since I don't do much on my desktop anyway since I have a Pixel C. My NAS is going to go in a corner in a my room in my apartment.

 

[Vareen]

I hear ya, I tried to downsize everything (since I live in the greater NYC area where space is at a premium) and originally bought the Node 304 but immediately found that 6 bays was not enough for me, so I went with the DS380 and that thing is a nightmare in my opinion. Granted it's the only small case that fits 12 drives, 8 of which are hotswappable, but it comes at the price of essentially no air flow for the drives (I had all bays filled and the drives were 50-60C, compared to max 38C in my NZXT case) and having to remove all the drives and the drive cages any time you wanted to work on something, not to mention the complete lack of cable management. It was a fun time trying to coil up two 12" SFF-8087 breakout cables, along with 4 SATA cables, 2 molex connectors and 4 SATA power connectors, then putting them in a place where they wouldn't hit the CPU fan or the exhaust fan!

I also had to mod a plastic piece slightly so I could fit my HBA without sacrificing a 3.5" drive bay. Even better if the backplane dies (like mine did) only 6 out of the 8 connectors from the drives are accessible once you remove the backplane, otherwise you have to cut the supports out of the way, and steel doesn't cut that easily.

Just go with a mid-tower case, you won't regret it. I'm ditching my desktop to make room for my NAS since I don't do much on my desktop anyway since I have a Pixel C. My NAS is going to go in a corner in a my room in my apartment.

Well one of the things that I've seen someone do was use unRAID instead of FreeNAS to create a Raid5 in their current gaming PC and simply run their gaming rig as a VM within unRAID and pass through the GPU. I'm trying to research out how I can convert my current desktop tower (full size ATX/Full size tower) that has 8 drive slots (with a few other possible 2.5'' mounting points) into a FreeNAS/Gaming rig hybrid with some kind of VM software. My current limitation with that is CPU since I have an AMD FX-6300 which is good for what it is, but doesn't support virtualization. So with my Xeon E3-1246 I looking at whether I should use Windows 10/Server 2012 with Hyper-V or some other virtualization software and run FreeNAS as a VM that way. The only part I could see being pretty expensive is getting 32GB of ECC RAM since I'd want to at least allocate 8-16GB for just the Gaming portion of my PC.

 

[brando56894]

Was that perhaps Linus from Linus Tech tips? I looked at UNRAID and FREENAS looks so much better, minus the lack of direct GPU access. I was going to use ESXI to virtualize FREENAS and Linux to use for a desktop but my SuperMicro board has shitty on board VGA and only one PCI that is currently occupied by my HBA

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[diedrichg]

DO NOT go with the Silverstone DS380B! Someone else here did a build in one and they hated it. They said that the metal air blocker behind the dives prevented proper cooling and cooked the drives. They wound up having to drill holes in the metal to get better air flow. They said they regretted their choice.

 

[Vareen]

Was that perhaps Linus from Linus Tech tips? I looked at UNRAID and FREENAS looks so much better, minus the lack of direct GPU access. I was going to use ESXI to virtualize FREENAS and Linux to use for a desktop but my SuperMicro board has shitty on board VGA and only one PCI that is currently occupied by my HBA

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah it was. I've read some blogs and some documents about the issues that ZFS specifically tries to remedy like bit rot and corruption, but they also go over how little those issues actually arise and how little of a risk it is to the average user. I want to get a build that runs FreeNAS specifically since I want to try it out, but unRAID also looks attractive and I like to learn as much as I can. But in order to try all of this stuff out I just need the hardware that can support it.

 

[INCSlayer]

I would not trust LinusTechTips with anything that is not just unbacking things in a flashy way.

DO NOT go with the Silverstone DS380B! Someone else here did a build in one and they hated it. They said that the metal air blocker behind the dives prevented proper cooling and cooked the drives. They wound up having to drill holes in the metal to get better air flow. They said they regretted their choice.

DO GO with the Silverstone DS380B! i used it and it didnt cook my drives and i did not have to drill holes into it. I did not regret my choice.