Datasets and CIFS

[rwslippey]

Good morning,

Well, After much fun over the last 2 days I managed to get all of my data off to other drives and move my usual hard drives into my NAS box and get FreeNAS installed.


Currently running 3 X 2TB hard drives on an Intel Processor (not sure which model, but it's not really related anyone, just trying to provide some detail) and 4 GB RAM.


Once I get some more freed up drives, I'll be adding to the array...

My question is around datasets. I've worked with Samba/linux in the past and understand SMB.conf but as FreeNAS relates to CIFS, how are permissions handled and what's the "best practices" approach to the following.


Basically I plan on having a few different shares with different access rights to different shares.

For example:

/Media/TV
/Media/Movies

Should these be 1 dataset and 2 shares, or 1 dataset 1 share 2 folders?
Obviously this dataset here would be open to everyone (TV/Laptops)

Another example would be limited permissions...

Business files, personal financial, ect

I guess I'm just curious how datasets play into the permissions.

Sorry if this has been asked before I've been looking around for like 2 days now....

Thanks

Rob

 

[pschatz100]

I don't think there is any one answer that would apply in all cases. It really depends upon how you want to manage your system. However, one of the advantages of datasets over folders will be that system changes you make to datasets are confined to that dataset only - which means that if you screw something up, the mess is limited to that one dataset and you have less chance of ruining the entire system (I've done this, twice.) Read up on datasets - it is worth the time.

On my system, I create a dataset for each data "type" that requires a particular set of permissions or backup procedures. For instance, you could have one dataset for media, which includes folders for TV, Movies, etc., and another dataset for backups of personal data. It would be easy to manage the permissions of each dataset and subsequent system tasks such as scrubs and replication would also be easy to organize. I like to keep things simple and, to me, Samba configuration is not simple.

I hope you have a good backup strategy for your NAS. Running with 4Gb memory is asking for trouble, and if it is not ECC memory - you will have a problem down the road.

 

[joeschmuck]

If you want to stick with 4GB of Non-ECC RAM then you should be running UFS formatted drives but that is not what FreeNAS was geared to support. I'm not certain of the system specs for NAS4Free but you could check out that website for an alternative solution using your specific hardware.

 

[rwslippey]

Thanks for your replies,

pschatz100, I appreciate your time, that's kind of the way I was leaning, creating the datasets for each configuration needed. It's been a while since I've messed around with smb.conf so I'd prefer to avoid that.

Yes I do have a good backup plan in the works... I'll be building another machine for offsite backup. Previously I had run crashplan to the machine that's currently running FreeNAS here now. I need to put together another machine for that crashplan target.
Unless you think their is a better way, that's my current plan.

Just curious why is the 4GB Ram a huge issue? If I understand correctly which I might not, is the issue based on recover if a drive fails? I have space and can add more memory. Same question for ECC memory. I'll definitely look at replacing this memory with either more memory or more ECC memory.

Joeschmuck,

I plan on building that hardware up here in the future. This is just the ground work. I guess I'll repeat the above question to you as well. Is the larger memory or ECC memory just a requrirment for recovery after a drive fails, or is it something needed now to prevent data loss? Hope that made sense?


Thanks again!


Rob

 

[rwslippey]

Okay,

I read up on ECC and ZFS (sorry rather new to the whole ZFS thing and completely overlooked this issue)

After reading I got concerned and grabbed my keys for a trip to Tiger Direct.... Then I stopped and thought about it. The box this is built in was purchased a few years ago as a server box (no OS) So I just shut it down and checked and it is ECC as best as I can tell..... Chip count (8 plus 1 , or a total of 9) note, I read that online as a good way to determine if the memory is ECC or not, wasn't sure if it was true or not so I doublecheck by looking up the model number on the RAM stick and it is advertised as ECC. So in short, it is server hardware and all things point to it being ECC. Thanks, heart attack over!


I will seek out some more memory as soon as I get my backup solution online (need some more hard drives)

This brings up another question.

Not specifically the current array, but any suggestions on how I can make use of some old 250 GB and 200 GB hard drives in this system, atleast until I start expanding this? I was thinking about a second array, straight mirror?

 

[solarisguy]

Two RAM issues are totally separate.

RAM size impacts ZFS operations, as when ZFS was designed it was assumed that the system would always have enough of RAM (i.e. it was not programmed to work with tight RAM). Possible pool corruption is possible, but not included in the design. Lockups and extreme slowness are the most popular symptoms.

Using ECC RAM was a part of ZFS design. Using non-ECC RAM might wipe your pool(s) if the RAM is faulty and you are doing a scrub. As in, yes, it is by design that using a faulty non-ECC RAM and doing a scrub your pool content would become corrupted.

 

[rwslippey]

solarisguy,

I confirmed I am running ECC RAM. I'll be adding more RAM asap

 

[solarisguy]

Yes, it is nice that you have ECC RAM modules, but may want to verify that ECC is truly operational...

Most likely 99.99% it is (server grade hardware).

In order to verify, follow the ideas from https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...formance-degradation.21327/page-2#post-124525

 

[Jailer]

Not specifically the current array, but any suggestions on how I can make use of some old 250 GB and 200 GB hard drives in this system, atleast until I start expanding this? I was thinking about a second array, straight mirror?

How many drives do you have? If you have enough drives you could create a vdev in the same configuration as you anticipate creating in the future and then replace the drives one at a time with larger ones.

Although if it were me I'd either scrap or ebay those old drives and start with fresh ones.

Just my .02

 

[rwslippey]

Solarisbuy,


Thanks again for your help here.

I tried your suggested "better way" and was unable to get it to run correctly.. Errors out with

/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgcc

So I ran the command above that and got the following:

[root@freenas] /tmp# dmidecode --type 16
# dmidecode 2.12
SMBIOS 2.6 present.

Handle 0x0022, DMI type 16, 15 bytes
Physical Memory Array
Location: System Board Or Motherboard
Use: System Memory
Error Correction Type: Multi-bit ECC
Maximum Capacity: 16 GB
Error Information Handle: Not Provided
Number Of Devices: 4


It appears, to my eyes, that I should be looking to get 16GB of ECC memory.
It appears to be using Multi-bit ECC memory

I'm thinking number of devices is actually slots, because their are only 2 sticks in this box right now.


Thoughts?

Thanks again for your help

 

[solarisguy]

Yes, gcc does not work in FreeNAS, by design. You would need to compile using FreeBSD (or using FreeNAS 9.2.1.5 where it worked by mistake, you can just boot into 9.2.1.5 and do nothing else but compile and execute).

 

[rwslippey]

Okay,


Finally got around to running this and got something weird... atleast it's different than yours on the other thread...

Code:

[root@freenas] /tmp# gcc ecc_check.c
[root@freenas] /tmp# ./a.out
5004-5007h: ff ff ff ff
5008-500Bh: ff ff ff ff

Seems to me that might not be good.....

 

[solarisguy]

Now, I have noticed that an expanded version of the original program was added on the second page http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1693051&page=2

And there is a comment that

This will only work on Socket 1155-CPUs with two memory channels.

As far as just ECC detection is considered, it also works with socket 1150.

What do you have?

I have seen ff values when running on AMD...

 

[rwslippey]

dmesg says it a Intel Core i3 540 @ 3.07 Ghz

It was a complete server when purchased a few years ago, just no OS..... I used it for a while under Linux and then decided I needed a NAS instead.... so now I'm here....
Looking up the specs online for the machines model number I come up with Intel 3420 for the chipset....

A look at the Intel Core i3 540 reveals....

Error Correcting Code (ECC) Memory
(when paired with Intel® 3450 chipset)

Honestly I just now put that together, having looked that all up over an hour ago.... (been up since 445....)

So, I guess I'm probably dead in the water here with this box....

Or at least taking a huge risk.....

 

[DKarnov]

3420 is a server chipset and (at least according to Supermicro) the i3 540 supports ECC when paired with it. Intel Ark is oddly silent on the matter.

 

[solarisguy]

I am sorry, at this point it is entirely out of my league.

Lacking technical background, but seeing no positive from Intel Ark and no positive from ecc_check.c, would make me not thinking positive about ECC RAM being properly implemented...

 

[joeschmuck]

How about giving us the full list of hardware, include model numbers. If you have some part numbers from the RAM chips, that would help, the motherboard make and model is key. Also, what have you discovered in the BIOS, or have you even looked in the BIOS yet? Did you get a user manual with the computer, see what it says.

 

[rwslippey]

How about giving us the full list of hardware, include model numbers. If you have some part numbers from the RAM chips, that would help, the motherboard make and model is key. Also, what have you discovered in the BIOS, or have you even looked in the BIOS yet? Did you get a user manual with the computer, see what it says.

You are absolutely right, I need to give you all of the information, although in my defense, the original question had nothing to do with the current topic, so that's why I never included it

The Server itself is made by Fujitsu Model Number TX100 S2

MOTHERBOARD = FUJITSU F2779-A12 GS 2 (under the model number on the MB is the following numbers 37724129)
MEMORY = SAMSUNG M391B5773DH0-YH9 1140
PROCESSOR =Intel Core i3 540 @ 3.07 Ghz

I think that covers most everything.

I've checked the BIOS and can't find anything related to ECC.

As I said above, according to Intel the processor only supports ECC "(when paired with Intel® 3450 chipset)"

It appears to me, atleast, that I have the 3420 chipset

So would this be as simple as replacing the Processor with one that support ECC with the 3420..... I was looking last night and I think it was the i3-530 that supports ECC with the 3420 Chip set.

I am sorry, at this point it is entirely out of my league.

Lacking technical background, but seeing no positive from Intel Ark and no positive from ecc_check.c, would make me not thinking positive about ECC RAM being properly implemented...

Believe me I'm with you... Processors and Chip sets are generally what I try to avoid... Just not my area I guess.... Thanks for all your help. and of course thanks to everyone above as well!

 

[rwslippey]

3420 is a server chipset and (at least according to Supermicro) the i3 540 supports ECC when paired with it. Intel Ark is oddly silent on the matter.

I found this in regards to the i3 540 (my process)

http://download.intel.com/newsroom/kits/embedded/pdfs/Core_i5-660_Corei3-540.pdf

On page 3 it shows features, and basically says the processor supports ECC only when paired with the intel 3450 chipset..... I have the 3420... If this is the case it's rather annoying for several reasons....

1. Everything appears to be in the same "family"
2. The chipset itself (3420) appears to support ECC with other processors in the same family as the i3 540 (aka the 530?)
3. So why would itel make a processor and chip set where the processor and chipset don't support ECC when paired together.... It seems these are the only 2 processor/chipset combinations that don't match?
4. Why in the hell did Fujitsu put these 2 together know this?

Did I miss something?

 

[mjws00]

You didn't miss something. This little server has ECC. They didn't mix and match incompatible junk and then sell thousands of these. It just has an oem board and even checks for compatible (some say fujitsu) RAM. Nothing to worry about. Memtest would probably test this ecc for you as well, but the initial concerns were more based on lack of info than concern about a non legit intel server ecc implementation. Engineers built this box not some basement hack.

You are under minimum spec. Which IS something to worry about. It does look easy to find the matching RAM on Amazon or wherever you prefer to tag 8Gb.

Good luck.