Choosing a HBA/Drive Expansion Card

[Spencer Skinner]

Hi guys,

To start off, this is not a whole build this is an upgrade to an existing server. In the next 3 or so months im planning on slowly upgrading parts of my server to allow for a greater number of drives.

The parts that are going to be changed are the case and the addition of a couple HBA's.

The current build is -
Gigabyte GA-X150M-PRO ECC Mobo
Intel Pentium G4400
3 x 8GB Crucial CT8G4WFD8213
6 x 2TB Seagate NAS ST2000VN000 64
Fractal Design Define R4 Black
650W Corsair RM650X ATX PSU

The plan eventually is to give myself the ability to double my drive count, now I know many will say just double the size of the drives to 4TB instead, yes I am also still considering that but id like to see how my options weigh up first

The cases ive been looking at are LogicCase Rackmount cases, currently my main choice is the Logic Case SC-4316S, but im also looking at the 20 and 24 drive variants, that said im swaying more toward the 16 drive one. As for cooling the drives in this case as far as im aware this doesn't have a dedicated set of drive fans, but ill jerry rig a couple Noctua NF-A14's together and have them on a fan controller.

The bit ive become stuck on is how im going to connect the drives to the mobo. The case ive chosen has a backplane installed. It uses 4 Boards of 4 drives each, and connects using 1 SFF-8087 connector per board. So essential 1 SFF-8087 for 4 drives. Now this of course means I can no longer connect my drives straight to my Mobo like i currently do. I need a / a few HBA(s) to connect the backplane to my system. So far what ive read is pretty much avoid all no name brands etc and go for LSI or IBM chipsets.

What ive found so far are these two cards
- Silverstone SST- ECS02 - This one is uses the LSISA2008 controller
- Silverstone SST- ECS04 - This one uses the LSISAS2308 controller

Now from what I have read both of these do not need to be flashed and can be used with FreeNAS straight out of the box (correct me if I'm wrong please ahah)

- Silverstone SST- ECS01 - This one uses the LSISA2108 controller

Which as far as I'm aware DOES need flashing before use with FreeNAS (again correct me if I'm wrong)

Again I'm swaying more toward the ECS02 and ECS04 because of usability out of the box and because they are slightly cheaper

Thanks
Spencer

 

[Stux]

I wasn't aware the Fractal Design had a back plane :-\

Anyway, if its a passive backplane (which it is), then you can use reverse-breakout cables to connect 4 sets of sata ports on your mobo to one SFF-8087 connector on the backplane.

See the Hardware Recommendations Guide resource for information on all the various OEM models of the same LSI card that you might want to look at.

 

[Spencer Skinner]

I wasn't aware the Fractal Design had a back plane :-\

Anyway, if its a passive backplane (which it is), then you can use reverse-breakout cables to connect 4 sets of sata ports on your mobo to one SFF-8087 connector on the backplane.

See the Hardware Recommendations Guide resource for information on all the various OEM models of the same LSI card that you might want to look at.

Nah its not the the R4 which has the backplane its the LogicCase which has the backplane, im changing fromthe R4 to the Logic Case SC-4316S, hence the need for HBA's. I was aware of the reverse breakouts but thought it required hardware support, my mistake, even so i wouldnt have enough SATA ports on the Mobo to support all the drive bays. Hence still needing a HBA to support all 16 drive bays

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

1. Buy more case than you think you'll need. Extra slots allow for extra flexibility. Cases last a really long time.

2. Unless the card you purchase has the right version of firmware from the factory, you're probably going to have to flash it anyway. Even if it comes from the factory configured as an HBA, you gotta make sure it is up to date with that firmware variant. I've yet to buy a card that didn't need to be flashed.

3. Since it is likely you'll have to flash the card anyway, there are HBAs more commonly used with FreeNAS (IBM M1015, for example) out there for a half to a third the price.

4. I wouldn't change the fan configuration unless there is a problem.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Stux]

Take a peak at my build: https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...24-supermicro-x10-sri-f-xeon-e5-1650v4.46262/

 

[Spencer Skinner]

1. Buy more case than you think you'll need. Extra slots allow for extra flexibility. Cases last a really long time.

2. Unless the card you purchase has the right version of firmware from the factory, you're probably going to have to flash it anyway. Even if it comes from the factory configured as an HBA, you gotta make sure it is up to date with that firmware variant. I've yet to buy a card that didn't need to be flashed.

3. Since it is likely you'll have to flash the card anyway, there are HBAs more commonly used with FreeNAS (IBM M1015, for example) out there for a half to a third the price.

4. I wouldn't change the fan configuration unless there is a problem.

Cheers,
Matt

Completely agree with redundancy for the case, may go for the 20 bay over the 16 bay not sure yet.

Any idea where i can find information on the firmware compatibility for FreeNAS to know what i need to flash? I assume your also referring to getting the IBM M1015 cards second hand, bare in mind the second hand market for server components in the UK is much smaller and sometimes a little less trustworthy. Nonetheless ill bare that all in mind.

If im unable to find any reasonable M1015's which of the three ive chosen so far would you say was best, or will any of them do. And can you mix and match HBA's or do they all have to be the same, I thought mix and match was fine but just wanted to confirm?

And yeh with jerry rigging fans together id only do that if i saw a need to.

Take a peak at my build: https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...24-supermicro-x10-sri-f-xeon-e5-1650v4.46262/

Will do

 

[Spencer Skinner]

Take a peak at my build: https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...24-supermicro-x10-sri-f-xeon-e5-1650v4.46262/

One thing to note is that Logic case and Norco seem to share almost identical designs for chasis

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

which of the three ive chosen so far would you say was best, or will any of them do. And can you mix and match HBA's

Yes, you can mix and match HBAs as well as mixing between on-motherboard ports and add-in HBA ports. FreeNAS is completely agnostic so long as it has direct access to the drives.

I don't know enough about the Silverstone cards to make a specific recommendation. In general, the LSI SAS 2308 chipset has better performance than the LSI SAS 2008 though both are well-supported and well-recommended. I'm not sure the LSI SAS 2108 can be flashed to work as a pure HBA so I'd stay away unless you know for sure.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Spencer Skinner]

Yes, you can mix and match HBAs as well as mixing between on-motherboard ports and add-in HBA ports. FreeNAS is completely agnostic so long as it has direct access to the drives.

I don't know enough about the Silverstone cards to make a specific recommendation. In general, the LSI SAS 2308 chipset has better performance than the LSI SAS 2008 though both are well-supported and well-recommended. I'm not sure the LSI SAS 2108 can be flashed to work as a pure HBA so I'd stay away unless you know for sure.

Cheers,
Matt

Sure I'll bare that all in mind, thanks

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnnie Black]

Main difference between SAS2008 and SAS2308 is PCIe 2.0 vs PCIe 3.0, unless you're using SSDs there won't be any difference in performance, SAS2308 also uses a higher voltage, hence a little more power (~6w vs ~9w) and produces more heat.

 

[Ericloewe]

Which as far as im aware DOES need flashing before use with FreeNAS (again correct me if im wrong)

No, it doesn't work at all. It only supports mfi.

In addition to the SAS2008, SAS2308 and SAS3008, all of which support IT mode, the SAS2208, SAS2308 (in RAID mode) and SAS3108 support the mrsas stack, which does allow for transparent direct-attach disks. While not ideal, mrsas is especially useful if the hardware vendor has a whitelist of PCIe cards which does not allow for a proper HBA to be used (or for the proper firmware to be used).

 

[Spencer Skinner]

No, it doesn't work at all. It only supports mfi.

In addition to the SAS2008, SAS2308 and SAS3008, all of which support IT mode, the SAS2208, SAS2308 (in RAID mode) and SAS3108 support the mrsas stack, which does allow for transparent direct-attach disks. While not ideal, mrsas is especially useful if the hardware vendor has a whitelist of PCIe cards which does not allow for a proper HBA to be used (or for the proper firmware to be used).

Ahh right so generally the consensus is just go for SAS2008 or SAS2308, preferably an M1015 or M115 which from what ive read are just re brands of eachother just the IBM ones are cheaper

 

[Spencer Skinner]

Another question - With SAS Expander cards im aware that they need a HBA to work so if i got a single M1015 and a SAS expander do i just connect the expander to the HBA via a MiniSAS (SFF8087) cable because from what im aware the expanders dont use the PCIe connection to communicate but rather just for power?

 

[Ericloewe]

Yes.

 

[Spencer Skinner]

Yes.

Any specific brands i should avoid or look for with expanders or does it not matter? Ive heard allot of good about Intel, but have seen allot of HP ones going for a good price

 

[Stux]

You need an hp controller to flash the HP expander...

But the m1015 will direct attach to 8 drives. Combined with your mobo Sata ports do you need an expander?

 

[Spencer Skinner]

You need an hp controller to flash the HP expander...

Riight so basically avoid HP if im using an M1015. Is that the case with all expanders, so id need an LSI or IBM based expander for the M1015?

 

[Johnnie Black]

I would recommend the Intel RES2SV240, up to 20 disks using single link, option to power it by molex or PCIe slot.
The HP SAS2 expander also works, more ports, but it's SATA2 only, earlier firmwares (<2.00) are SATA1 only, needs a PCIe slot for power.

 

[Stux]

Riight so basically avoid HP if im using an M1015. Is that the case with all expanders, so id need an LSI or IBM based expander for the M1015?

Nope. The HP Is just supposed to only be used with HP hardware

 

[Spencer Skinner]

Nope. The HP Is just supposed to only be used with HP hardware

Ahh right so the classic limiting of users for profit etc. So most other brand expanders will work etc