Adventures in TrueNAS SCALE on QNAP Hardware

[elvisimprsntr]

Did you experience this?

I have not experienced this problem.

Is there a solution?

Maybe try the nightlies?

/scale/

 

[eldxmgw]

I'm really in trouble with the Display while boot and install latest TrueNAS Scale.
I use a QNAP TS853-A with 16GB running QTS since many years fine.
So i pulled all drives, connected an USB via the backside USB3 port and connected an additional drive via the front USB port with the Scale image for the installation.
The boot menu of Scale looks fine, but after that, you cant read anything. All looks kinda weird.
I had no chance to gain any success for now. I tried to rise the allocated memory to the maximum for the internal GPU in the very limited BIOS,
tried the monitor you see on the pictures, tried a 50" Sony Bravia TV, tried different HDMI cables, tried both HDMI ports on the NAS but without any difference.
I don't have more options to test any other monitors, but i also think that won't change anything.
Do you have any clue? Cause the net search doesn't help so far. I feel kinda lost for now.

 

[eldxmgw]

Oh man, this is so embarrassing for me now cause i found the mistake.
It was my fault.
In BIOS i've overseen that the external disk with the extracted ISO file has two options to choose from.
And i didn't choose the UEFI variant.
Booting the image with the non UEFI variant produces the display error as seen above.
Booting the UEFI variant, and all looks fine.
Man i lost at least 1,5 hours because of myself *grrr*
Maybe this helps somebody at least not to do the same mistake.

 

[MikeLowry]

I'm really in trouble with the Display while boot and install latest TrueNAS Scale.
I use a QNAP TS853-A with 16GB running QTS since many years fine.
So i pulled all drives, connected an USB via the backside USB3 port and connected an additional drive via the front USB port with the Scale image for the installation.
The boot menu of Scale looks fine, but after that, you cant read anything. All looks kinda weird.
I had no chance to gain any success for now. I tried to rise the allocated memory to the maximum for the internal GPU in the very limited BIOS,
tried the monitor you see on the pictures, tried a 50" Sony Bravia TV, tried different HDMI cables, tried both HDMI ports on the NAS but without any difference.
I don't have more options to test any other monitors, but i also think that won't change anything.
Do you have any clue? Cause the net search doesn't help so far. I feel kinda lost for now.


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Oh man, this is so embarrassing for me now cause i found the mistake.
It was my fault.
In BIOS i've overseen that the external disk with the extracted ISO file has two options to choose from.
And i didn't choose the UEFI variant.
Booting the image with the non UEFI variant produces the display error as seen above.
Booting the UEFI variant, and all looks fine.
Man i lost at least 1,5 hours because of myself *grrr*
Maybe this helps somebody at least not to do the same mistake.

All good mate - we make mistakes and we learn - no one teaches us that.

The sites below also suggest that the issue is UEFI related.

How to scale GRUB menu on 4K displays

Tutorial showing how to scale the GRUB bootloader menu on displays with HD/UHD resolutions

www.dedoimedo.com

Display related problems during Debian installation

I am building a new PC, and I can’t install Debian. When I start my USB boot drive, I see the booting menu as below. Then when I select "Graphical install" and I get the following problem: When I...

unix.stackexchange.com

Also, a good tool for bootable USB without having to reformat each time.. you can have multiple ISO files on it and choose from menu.

Ventoy

Ventoy is an open source tool to create bootable USB drive for ISO files. With ventoy, you don't need to format the disk again and again, you just need to copy the iso file to the USB drive and boot it.

www.ventoy.net

I installed TRUENAS many times before I got the hang of it :)

 

[eldxmgw]

Anybody already managed to get full drive usage of QNAP extensions like the 2bay TR-002 in Scale?
This unit can be configured by dip-switches as seen here: https://download.qnap.com/Storage/T...pansion Unit/TR Series/tr-00x-ug-04-en-us.pdf
You can configure "individual, JBOD, R0, R1 and software controlled", where the last one means you have to either use QTS or QNAPs Win/OSX software.
Since this 2bay extension is mostly used with 2x10TB disks and i want to use them as single "archive" drives with the same content (no raid) and a file system that that could be still red in a decade (probably xFAT), IMHO this unit should be set to "individual".
But somehow Scale recorgnizes just one disk and ignores the 2nd. I've tested the same for "software controlled".
Mode JBOD, R0 and R1 also adds just one disk to Scale but 2 physical disks combined to one.
For mode "individual" i've expected to get use of two physical disks.
Anybody already have seen this issue?

 

[eldxmgw]

FYI: I was being told that USB dives in a enclosure like that isn't compatible: https://www.truenas.com/community/t...ut-truenas-not-seeing-them.98205/#post-677511

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Anybody already managed to get full drive usage of QNAP extensions like the 2bay TR-002 in Scale?

I have a TR-002 connected to a QNAP NAS running TrueNAS CORE. I read the same compatibility concerns, but I gave it a try anyway. Used the DIP switches to put it into R1 mode. Works without issue. I suspect individual disk mode will not work. I didn't bother to try.

 

[eldxmgw]

I have a TR-002 connected to a QNAP NAS running TrueNAS CORE. I read the same compatibility concerns, but I gave it a try anyway. Used the DIP switches to put it into R1 mode. Works without issue. I suspect individual disk mode will not work. I didn't bother to try.

Yeah a stripe and a mirror like also a JBOD works. But as already stated in the link above this isn't the mode i need running archive disks.
Furthermore my additional concern is that the external extension bay forces f.e. R1 and manages it on it's own showing Core or Scale the disk without any mirror management capability by the NAS OS. This is something i wouldn't trust into.
Anyway my solution was to step away cause individual mode isn't working (the links tells why), and i connected it to my hackintosh workstation using it from there and copy archived data over the LAN.

 

[eldxmgw]

I was wondering that the TS-853A worked almost without any issues with the latest Scale.
Some people said they had problems with max RPM fans, not all NICs available, not working LEDs, missing temperature and/or cpu environment data, boot order cannot permanently adjusted in BIOS aso. while using different Qnap models.
So far i can tell i have non of this problems. It was even funny to see that this unit has a standard client BIOS in a very stripped manner.
The fans can be adjusted in either manual or smart status, and the boot order correct saved at any time.
Ignoring the known issue with the front panel where i already knew there's a fix, all is running fine.
I haven't tested the internal bays so far, cause i currently backup data out of QTS before saying goodbye to QTS forever.
The DOM won't be replaced. I'll go the well known route with 2x 2,5" USB HDDs in a mirror and edit the boot order.

I was thinking about what to use on the Qnap. Core or Scale. I think Scale has become to something really nice when i compare the first Alpha i tested over a year ago.
I'm running a Xeon box on Core since some years now which is my storage system for a vCenter Cluster and my first DC running on a bhyve VM.
This Core driven system will be replaced by Scale for sure. I tend to also use Scale on the Qnap, even when this is only used for backup and data grave purposes. Given the fact Scale is still handeled as beta, i just hope when Scale becomes final, there will be a way to update the current RC and not to be forced to reinstall a new major release from scratch.
Cause right now i'm sure, i cannot export Cores bhyve VM running my first DC to Scales Hypervisor infrastructure.
Same for the vCenter, different VMs on the NFS Pool of the current Core system for the vCenter Cluster.
I fear at least i have to rebuild my first DC on Scale. The other stuff i'm not sure right now.
Anyway i've been seen this coming.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

I was wondering that the TS-853A worked almost without any issues with the latest Scale.

I have two TS-x53A running CORE and one running SCALE nightlies, essentially the same HW. CPU temps ~50C with default BIOS fan mode. I actually changed the BIOS fan mode to high speed. Although the CPU temps did run a bit cooler, I started having problems with random unexpected reboots. Set the BIOS fan speed back to default and random unexpected reboots stopped. Otherwise, no issues.

 

[eldxmgw]

I have two TS-x53A running CORE and one running SCALE nightlies, essentially the same HW.

I see.
What was your reason to install Core on one and Scale on the other Qnap NAS boxes?
I also compared the two editions here but there's not so much difference: https://www.truenas.com/compare-editions/
I'm sure to transform the currently used Core NAS to Scale, but i'm not fully sure what to use for the Qnap NAS box.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

What was your reason to install Core on one and Scale on the other Qnap NAS boxes?

Linux containers and KVM virtualization, and Debian likely means better HW support. Since SCALE is still in development, it is only for testing.
The two CORE systems are part of my primary 3-2-1 backup strategy.

P.S. I replaced the QNAP 512MB SLC eUSB DOMs with 16GB SLC DOMs. I've had no issues running CORE/SCALE. I have seen posts of some having problems with eUSB DOMs, but I think they using were a less expensive off brand and a different flash type.

 

[NugentS]

I had issues, using MLC eUSB Doms. I gave up and use M.2 in USB adapters attached to the external USB ports

 

[eldxmgw]

Linux containers and KVM virtualization, and Debian likely means better HW support. Since SCALE is still in development, it is only for testing.
The two CORE systems are part of my primary 3-2-1 backup strategy.

P.S. I replaced the QNAP 512MB SLC eUSB DOMs with 16GB SLC DOMs. I've had no issues running CORE/SCALE. I have seen posts of some having problems with eUSB DOMs, but I think they using were a less expensive off brand and a different flash type.

Yes Scale is handeled as Beta and marked as RC. But it runs really good IMHO.
Do you think it's too risky to use the latest Scale on your main backup device which is the Qnap box here?
I already decided to exchange Core against Scale on my vCenter storage because of many reasons.

I never understood the effort replacing the DOM since you just have one, and there's no redundancy with a second one.
Then it's expensive, and in case you want to switch back to QTS you have to disassemble your unit again.
At the very end most users don't know the importance of ESD methods which means that every take apart rises the risk of some labour part damage.
IMHO using external or bay drives is easier and more efficient.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Do you think it's too risky to use the latest Scale on your main backup device which is the Qnap box here?

The SCALE Alphas and first Betas had a few minor problems, so I switched to the nightlies so I could submit jira bug reports if I saw anything running on my QNAP HW

I never understood the effort replacing the DOM since you just have one, and there's no redundancy with a second one.
Then it's expensive, and in case you want to switch back to QTS you have to disassemble your unit again.

Since my QNAPs don't have any spare SATA or M.2 slots, I didn't want to have an external USB SSD hanging off the QNAP, which could get bumped or come loose since there is no positive locking mechanism. I have a BASH script that runs weekly to automatically backup my config and copy to a redundant NAS, so I think I'm covered.

Once you have the white non-conductive staking compound removed, the DOM can be easily replaced by just removing the drives. If the SLC eUSB DOM craps out, which I don't think it will, I have spares and can be back up and running in less than 20 minutes.

I will never switch back to QTS, with it's all too frequently discovered hard coded credentials and vulnerabilities. I wanted to excommunicate QNAP QTS from my home, just like I did with Windows 15+ year ago.

At the very end most users don't know the importance of ESD methods which means that every take apart rises the risk of some labour part damage.

And even some professional IT companies. I once saw a promo video of a server hosting company that showed an inside look at their operations, trumpeting how quickly they can get a server back online. They showed their technicians pulling unprotected RAM modules out of yellow PVC plastic storage bins with their bare hands, walking across highly polished waxed floors, and inserting them into servers. There were no ESD protective products in sight.

 

[eldxmgw]

Bad news: i killed my Qnap NAS. The logic board is dead. I have to face the situation. A new board or new system is to costly and won't make any sense. So i'll watch forward and try to sell this unit as a spare part in used market.
Anyway i was lucky to double save all my data from this raid before this happened.
I still own my Primary core NAS which i'll transform into Scale.
This server has to act from now on as my vCenter storage plus backup data grave.
I'm not sure if i can fit 8 additional drives in this Fractal Design Define R5.
Anyway i will need a 2nd SATA controller card.
Puh, the last days were like a rollercoaster.
Only mission accomplished so far: i finally get rid of the Qnap System

 

[HarryMuscle]

Bad news: i killed my Qnap NAS. The logic board is dead. I have to face the situation. A new board or new system is to costly and won't make any sense. So i'll watch forward and try to sell this unit as a spare part in used market.
Anyway i was lucky to double save all my data from this raid before this happened.
I still own my Primary core NAS which i'll transform into Scale.
This server has to act from now on as my vCenter storage plus backup data grave.
I'm not sure if i can fit 8 additional drives in this Fractal Design Define R5.
Anyway i will need a 2nd SATA controller card.
Puh, the last days were like a rollercoaster.
Only mission accomplished so far: i finally get rid of the Qnap System

Did it just die from old age or do you know what caused it to die?

Thanks,
Fat

 

[eldxmgw]

Did it just die from old age or do you know what caused it to die?

Thanks,
Fat

The truth is, it was simply my "mechanical" fault (i think).
After years of use i completely disassembled and cleaned it. I also renewed the thermal paste.
I slipped with the fine slotted nylon tool once over the backside of the logic board while unmounting the small and flimsy CPU heatsink.
This slight issue probably also knocked off a resistor or similar i can't find anymore.
This is just a guess because i investigated the whole logic board and think there was something SMD soldered.
Anyway if or if not, this was obviously enough to kill the logic board.
I found a point to brick it with a fine tool to get a beep and the POST (sometimes) showed, but nothing stable you can rely on.
This can't be soldered by myself, i tried different things but without any luck.
First time in life something like that happened to me.
But i have repaired trillions of aBBLe™ devices down to layer surface back in the days as a certified technican.
I was reading a lot of threads where people, owning those embedded NAS devices like Qnap, Synology, Netgear aso. moaned
that after opening, done this done that, cleaning ..... closing, somehow the backplane died, the whole system was kindalike busted aso.
I can tell you for sure that i never have seen so many internal checkmarks on screws (nearly every screw), mechanical plates, lube fixed boards
like in system like this to ensure nobody unfasten any factory handling.
Despite the fact that at least this system has a really strong metal body, i feel the pcbs are coming from manufacturers like that are like, assemble it, and never ever touch it again. This underlines the spare part aftermarket, and the pricing of internal spare parts when you ask resellers or the manufacturer directly which forces you to buy another already overprized system instead to repair it if you go with this embedded hardware slavery.
I mean, this is nothing compared to general logic boards or similar parts used in other systems.
This is just my thinking, but somehow this is underlined when you read threads from the last years.
~ 5 years ago i was also being pleased by this Qnap marketing hype and not so Freenas enlighted at this days.
I was feeling i was in need of a data grave and the first thing somebody without any clue does is to trust into a system like that.
If you just take a look on the kindalike hard wired system software, the feature set, the primary target group the manufacturer focuses on
(Hipsters® with mobile phones copy over a cloud their selfpromoter pictures to this enternal data grave WTF?), you can understand their main business.
This was a learning curve i already finished almost 2 years after owning this unit and this was also the time when starting with Freenas back in that days.
Every day i'm impressed to see what you can achive with so called "outdated", but potent hardware in conjunction with TrueNAS * software.
That's what I call sustainable and I like it!
Anyway never ever again ;)

 

[xxsskxx]

Another option is to install a Mini-PCIe SSD or use the two eSATA ports on the back of the unit, if you are not using it for something else.


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Hi

Thank you for this information, im looking to convert my QNAP TS-470 Pro to True NAS Core. Is leveraging the Mini-PCIe SSD (16GB+) to install the OS on and making it the primary boot device in teh BIOS 'enough' for me to run this succesfully?

I just want to confirm if I can use the Mini-PCIe SSD,leaving the existing DOM where it is to make the install / conversion easier. Thanks

 

[NugentS]

@HarryMuscle
You said "Anyway i will need a 2nd SATA controller card." I hope you mean you need an HBA card as most SATA controller cards are dangerous with TrueNAS