pfSense vs. OPNSense?

[NickF]

From this forums perspective, thats an easy question. TrueNAS SCALE.

Open that context out a bit wider, you may resolve that Linux is alot more exciting, You can measure this in lines of code written for each in general.

I resolve that we the users of the software should exercise our rights granted to us in our software. This is especially true in Open Source in general, but should be applied consistently.

So, by this logic I run SCALE at home and even in production. It's alot deeper of a relationship than you might think.

 

[Whattteva]

Exactly. It also has "system shutdown" there. Far removed from "reboot." And called "halt system."

To be fair, this is probably more of a reference to the halt command or shutdown -h

 

[Whattteva]

Yeah, but we're still just a little bit crazy to defend it. Theres plenty of good reason to not use BSD that we ignore. Cognitive dissonance. We cling together.

Being a little crazy in this context is a good thing. FreeBSD serves enough arbitrary random use cases in 2023 to be viable. :P

I'm struggling to see why it's crazy to use an OS whose solid core is quite likely the most ubiquitous in the world ie. Apple iOS/MacOS, Sony PlayStation, NetFlix servers, and probably a bunch of proprietary routers/switches.

 

[NickF]

I'm struggling to see why it's crazy to use an OS whose solid core is quite likely the most ubiquitous in the world ie. Apple iOS/MacOS, Sony PlayStation, NetFlix servers, and probably a bunch of proprietary routers/switches.

I am one of us. Everything you just listed, I am in those communities. But reality is a bitch, man. Look at the development effort given, the amount of code written. It tells the story of Linux winning out over FreeBSD.

 

[Whattteva]

I am one of us. Everything you just listed, I am in those communities. But reality is a bitch, man. Look at the development effort given, the amount of code written. It tells the story of Linux winning out over FreeBSD.

I actually view that as an advantage. Linux suffers from the disease of "too many chefs" in the kitchen and gets schizophrenic and constantly reinvents the wheel. Look no further than all these debacle over the years like pulseaudio, systemd, snap/flatpak. I haven't even gotten to all the systemd modules that replace even simple things like resolvconf. Or the mess that is BTRFS. Even their containers are a mess with LXC and Docker not being compatible with each other. It's almost like there is no coherent vision.

Now they're on the verge of doing it again with PipeWire and let's cross our fingers it won't be as messy as pulseaudio and systemd transitions were. Meanwhile, FreeBSD has had solid OSS for decades. Same story with ZFS and BTRFS, the file system that's never gonna be actually production ready even after more than a decade of development. Don't you find it funny that TrueNAS SCALE didn't go all-in with Linux and just use BTRFS instead?

If that is what "winning" is. I'm happy to be excluded.

 

[NickF]

I actually view that as an advantage. Linux suffers from the disease of "too many chefs" in the kitchen and gets schizophrenic and constantly reinvents the wheel. Look no further than all these debacle over the years like pulseaudio, systemd, snap/flatpak. I haven't even gotten to all the systemd modules that replace even simple things like resolvconf. Or the mess that is BTRFS. Even their containers are a mess with LXC and Docker not being compatible with each other. It's almost like there is no coherent vision.

I think I agree with all of this. What I'm trying to say is, for both you and I right now this is a prime example of cognitive dissonance, even highlighting these nuanced details to varrying degrees, I resolve all of the edge cases here, but I need an adult to confirm. Communication bottlenecks are a thing, both artificial and organic. So I'm sorry that I'm limited by both..

 

[Whattteva]

Open that context out a bit wider, you may resolve that Linux is alot more exciting, You can measure this in lines of code written for each in general.

I want to give you some historical context here that I think you're missing as to why Linux is the juggernaut it is today.

FreeBSD may very well be Linux today had they not been unfortunately got involved in a lawsuit brought to them by UNIX in 1992. This lawsuit discouraged a lot of people/companies from using FreeBSD because they didn't want to get dragged into it themselves. BSD eventually won the lawsuit, but the damage had been done
The lawsuit basicallu stalled development for years and people that would have contributed to BSD ended up running to Linux instead where there was no legal risk and the rest is history.

Fun fact, the company that sold BSD commercially (BSDi) eventually got sold and renamed to.... you guessed it, iXsystems.

 

[NickF]

I want to give you some historical context here that I think you're missing as to why Linux is the juggernaut it is today.

FreeBSD may very well be Linux today had they not been unfortunately got involved in a lawsuit brought to them by UNIX in 1992. This lawsuit discouraged a lot of people/companies from using FreeBSD because they didn't want to get dragged into it themselves. BSD eventually won the lawsuit, but the damage had been done
The lawsuit basicallu stalled development for years and people that would have contributed to BSD ended up running to Linux instead where there was no legal risk and the rest is history.

Fun fact, the company that sold BSD commercially (BSDi) eventually got sold and renamed to.... you guessed it, iXsystems.

Oh, and I understand and already knew this prior to making my other statements.

I don't like that Linux won out. I would have prefered BSD won, thats just not the world we live in.

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

What's "winning" supposed to mean in an open source context? I prefer for FreeBSD to stay relevant. And, heck, is it alive and kicking. It's the tier 1 platform if you want to run ZFS in production. There are conferences all over the world. The foundation does a great job, IMHO.

So? Running hyperscale clouds with Kubernetes is not my job. Let people whose is use Linux for that.

 

[Ericloewe]

It's pretty clear that the Linux kernel core team, for lack of a better word, suffers from serious NIH syndrome, which has some notable, buttery negative outcomes. It's unfortunate, because that hinders adoption of good ideas. However, even if here were not the case, it would still be good to have two systems with similar APIs and concepts, to maintain some variety of options while still allowing for considerable cross-pollination of ideas.

 

[danb35]

/wonders idly how this turned into a BSD vs. Linux discussion...

 

[Davvo]

/wonders idly how this turned into a BSD vs. Linux discussion...

Off-topic section magic I guess.

 

[NickF]

Off-topic section magic I guess.

/wonders idly how this turned into a BSD vs. Linux discussion...

correlation is not causation. but correlation is what happened.

 

[victort]

Netgate pfSense Plus TAC Lite Available for $129/year

Learn about the availability of the pfSense Plus TAC Lite subscription and how it benefits users with timely updates and customer service.

www.netgate.com

Update...

 

[danb35]

Wildly lurching from one position to another, which seems to have been their hallmark of late.

Leaving aside the respective pros/cons of the products themselves, Netgate themselves have become a huge argument against using pfSense. This isn't a new thing--their behavior when OPNsense forked was plenty--but they haven't shown any signs of improvement.

 

[Whattteva]

Wildly lurching from one position to another, which seems to have been their hallmark of late.

Well it's just the standard backpedaling/damage control that corporations do when they encounter a massive backlash on some controversial decision they made. Negate isn't alone on this backpedaling/damage control thing. Though in this case, it seems like it's not really a backpedal and more of just a "sorry/not sorry" type thing.

 

[danb35]

Negate isn't alone on this backpedaling thing.

Surely not--but in their case it's just the last example in a long line of behaving, at best, unprofessionally, as well as erratically. The more they say, the less trustworthy they appear to be.

 

[NickF]

Interesting move. I think I got check mated. Their answer was clear enough for me.

 

[Whattteva]

Interesting move. I think I got check mated. Their answer was clear enough for me.

Yeah, what a shame really. Speaking of companies that backpedal and restrict their stuff, I feel like there have been many of them lately. RedHat killing CentOS, OpenSUSE killing LEAP, Hashi Corp and Terraform.

 

[NickF]

As a community we deserve better firewall options. I need to figure out my role in the future of this issue, but its certainly an important problem to be considered.