Will this run FreeNAS without problems in my living room?

[Neosphere]

Hello there,

I'm excited, I want to drop my QNAP 470 Pro and build a FreeNAS to store important documents, family photos and videos and run public web servers.

I want the box to be as quiet as possible and as reliable as possible (plus that cool design ;)).

This is what I think would be a cool build, what do you guys think?
What did I forget or what could be optimized/better?

Motherboard: Supermicro - X10SDV-8C-TLN4F Mini ITX Xeon D-1541 Motherboard ($948.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Memory: Crucial - 32GB (2 x 16GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($821.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Case: Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($84.99 @ SuperBiiz) but Lian-Li PC-Q26B looks cool as well.
Power Supply: Silverstone - Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($87.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $2475.92

 

[m0nkey_]

If you wish to save some money on the motherboard and RAM, you could consider the ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX, which is the same motherboard used in the FreeNAS Mini.

If you're prepared to spend $2500, then why not get a pre-built diskless FreeNAS Mini?

 

[Neosphere]

If you wish to save some money on the motherboard and RAM, you could consider the ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX, which is the same motherboard used in the FreeNAS Mini.

If you're prepared to spend $2500, then why not get a pre-built diskless FreeNAS Mini?

Well I already have the 4 hard drives, so it would cost me $1943.96. I'd have to pay $281.00 for shipping the FreeNAS Mini to Switzerland (excluding customs :/).
Besides, which advantage do I get over my setup with FreeNAS Mini?

You mentioned I could get cheaper RAM, which model were you thinking of?

I just noticed the ASRock board has only 2 6Gbit ports. Wouldn't that slow down backups or the NAS in general dramatically?

 

[Inxsible]

Questions:

1. Do you need 10Gbe LAN ports? -- If not, go for a lesser board which has 1Gbe LAN ports.
2. Do you need to have quad ports or will 1 or 2 suffice? -- If not, go for a board which has 1 or 2 LAN ports
3. Do you have to have Registered ECC RAM? -- Unbuffered tends to be cheaper.
4. Do you need/want IPMI ? -- If not, you can choose a board without the -F flag in the name. This may or may not be cheaper than the corresponding -F board depending on sale etc..

I will let you know that cable management is a b!tch in the Node 304 case. It's not a very big case. I have one, and now that I have 6 drives in there, there are 6 SATA power cables and 6 SATA data cables. Plus the fan connections and the front panel connections etc. I am thinking of moving everything into a 3U or 4U rackmount case using an HBA, which will manage a lot more drives than any motherboard will provide SATA ports for. Agreed, that not everyone thinks that rack servers are "cool" looking. I think racks look better, but that's just me.

I just noticed the ASRock board has only 2 6Gbit ports. Wouldn't that slow down backups or the NAS in general dramatically?

6Gbit? Are you talking about the SATA ports? I doubt you will be able to saturate the 6Gbps SATA3 ports with your WD Reds.

 

[Ericloewe]

Memory: Crucial - 32GB (2 x 16GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($821.99 @ Adorama)

ou mentioned I could get cheaper RAM, which model were you thinking of?

Anything from the QVL is going to be half the price. Look for 16GB UDIMMs.

 

[Neosphere]

Questions:

1. Do you need 10Gbe LAN ports?
2. Do you need to have quad ports or will 1 or 2 suffice?
3. Do you have to have Registered ECC RAM? Unbuffered tends to be cheaper.

I will let you know that cable management is a b!tch in the Node 304 case. It's not a very big case. I have one, and now that I have 6 drives in there, there are 6 SATA power cables and 6 SATA data cables. Plus the fan connections and the front panel connections etc. I am thinking of moving everything into a 3U or 4U rackmount case using an HBA, which will manage a lot more drives than any motherboard will provide SATA ports for. Agreed, that not everyone thinks that rack servers are "cool" looking. I think racks look better, but that's just me.

6Gbit? Are you talking about the SATA ports? I doubt you will be able to saturate the 6Gbps SATA3 ports with your WD Reds.

Good questions,
1. I don't exactly "need" them because even Plex would need much less for transferring HD videos but data file transfers would possibly be faster over the LAN ports of my RT-AC87U? You're probably correct though, pretty high price for that.
2. Quad ports? I lack knowledge here. I want to connect up to 6x drives. For now the WD Reds. SSDs in future maybe. What are quad ports needed for? High availability of the ports themselves?
3. I want to run some virtual machines on the server and according to https://www.servethehome.com/unbuffered-registered-ecc-memory-difference-ecc-udimms-rdimms/ registered RAM would be the way to go in that case.

I don't really want to have a huge box in my living room. Not much bigger than the QNAP 470 Pro box I have now.
However the rack suggestion might be good because it could fit under my TV inside the IKEA unit.

And about the 6Gbit SATA ports: If I would like to replace my WD Reds with SSDs, wouldn't 6Gbps be required?

 

[Inxsible]

Good questions,
1. I don't exactly "need" them because even Plex would need much less for transferring HD videos but data file transfers would possibly be faster over the LAN ports of my RT-AC87U? You're probably correct though, pretty high price for that.

You would need 10Gbe ports on both ends of that transfer in order to see any substantial gain. For home use, I think 10Gbe is overkill. But if you have the money and you have 10Gbe everywhere in your network -- i.e. your switch, your router, your modem etc etc, then sure go for it.

2. Quad ports? I lack knowledge here. I want to connect up to 6x drives. For now the WD Reds. SSDs in future maybe. What are quad ports needed for? High availability of the ports themselves?

I was talking about the quad NIC ports. Seems like you don't need 4 NIC ports from what you are describing. For FreeNAS in a home network, most times 1 port is sufficient, unless you have some specific use case. If you have multiple ports then you can use LACP, but then do you have a managed switch to support that?

3. I want to run some virtual machines on the server and according to https://www.servethehome.com/unbuffered-registered-ecc-memory-difference-ecc-udimms-rdimms/ registered RAM would be the way to go in that case.

I don't really want to have a huge box in my living room. Not much bigger than the QNAP 470 Pro box I have now.
However the rack suggestion might be good because it could fit under my TV inside the IKEA unit.

And about the 6Gbit SATA ports: If I would like to replace my WD Reds with SSDs, wouldn't 6Gbps be required?

I am not sure about virtual machines needing RDIMMS. I wouldn't think it would be a necessity. But again, if you think it's required then go ahead and add RDIMMS instead of UDIMMS. Instead of SATA ports on the motherboard, think about using a HBA that could manage more drives than the SATA ports on most motherboards. Some server grade boards also come with integrated HBAs.

From that servethehome link you provided:

For virtualization environments where memory, and memory bandwidth is key to achieving high consolidation and density metrics, Registered ECC memory is generally the way to go.

This statement seems to be the gist of why they recommend RDIMMS over UDIMMS. Consider, however, that it also depends on a number of other factors. For example the number of virtualized machines that you want to run and how much each VM will take as memory.

Usually, most boards will support much larger RAM capacities with RDIMMS vs UDIMMS. And the difference tends to be huge. For example it will support say 64GB of UDIMMS max, but 192GB of RDIMMS. IIRC, I thought I had seen a board that supported 1.5TB of RAM too, but I can't remember the name of that board. It was a Supermicro board.
Those kind of capacities are useful for enterprise level virtualization. For home use, figure out how many VMs you might need. Add 10-15% tolerance and then accordingly calculate RAM values for each machine. If the total falls under the max UDIMM value for your board, then go with UDIMMS else go with RDIMMS.

Finally, RDIMMS > UDIMMS > DIMMS (regular RAM). If you have unlimited resources, sure go ahead and max out everything, but there is definitely value in utilizing what you have to the fullest rather than having a "megasystem" sit idle most of the time.

 

[Neosphere]

Huge thanks for all the info. It seems that I could save tons of $ with your suggestions.
So what hardware exactly would you suggest all in all if I pass on IPMI, 10Gbps, have 1 NIC, use 64GB UDIMMS? ;)

 

[Inxsible]

Huge thanks for all the info. It seems that I could save tons of $ with your suggestions.
So what hardware exactly would you suggest all in all if I pass on IPMI, 10Gbps, have 1 NIC, use 64GB UDIMMS? ;)

Would you consider used components or are you only planning on buying new ?

I recently got a used Supermicro 1U server with X9SCL-F (microATX), Intel Xeon E3-1240 CPU, LSI MegaRAID 9260-4i, 4x4GB ECC UDIMMS, 4x500GB Seagate Constellation HDDs, 350W Supermicro 80 Plus Gold PSU -- All for $200USD

I use TYAN S5533 mini ITX board in my Node 304 FreeNAS -- which might not suit you because it only supports a max of 16GB UDIMMS.

If you are only planning on buying new, then AsRock, Asus and Supermicro all make good mini-ITX boards. Have you decided on the form factor of the board? Are you willing to change cases? that could change the board choice too.

 

[Neosphere]

I'd rather use new components. However USD200 for all the stuff you're listing is insane.
The NAS must be as silent as possible and as small as possible because it will be placed in the living room. (Mini-)ITX would be a dream. However HTPC cases with (Micro-)ATX form factor would possibly be OK.

I'm also a bit worried that the CPU will perform badly for Plex on those ITX boards.

 

[Stux]

Hello there,

I'm excited, I want to drop my QNAP 470 Pro and build a FreeNAS to store important documents, family photos and videos and run public web servers.

I want the box to be as quiet as possible and as reliable as possible (plus that cool design ;)).

This is what I think would be a cool build, what do you guys think?
What did I forget or what could be optimized/better?

Motherboard: Supermicro - X10SDV-8C-TLN4F Mini ITX Xeon D-1541 Motherboard ($948.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Memory: Crucial - 32GB (2 x 16GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($821.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($132.99 @ Best Buy) --> because I already own it
Case: Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($84.99 @ SuperBiiz) but Lian-Li PC-Q26B looks cool as well.
Power Supply: Silverstone - Strider Gold 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($87.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $2475.92

So, pretty much my Node 304/X10SDV build ;), which I built to have high Wife Acceptance Factor and to go in a living room.

Granted, I haven't yet placed it in the living room, but it seems good.

I have thermal and fan controller notes in my build thread for minimizing noise.

Make sure you have a fan on your board.

 

[Stux]

I will let you know that cable management is a b!tch in the Node 304 case. It's not a very big case. I have one, and now that I have 6 drives in there, there are 6 SATA power cables and 6 SATA data cables. Plus the fan connections and the front panel connections etc.

Oh it's not so bad ;)

I document how to cable manage it in my build thread.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...sdv-tln4f-esxi-freenas-aio.57116/#post-401289

 

[Stux]

You would need 10Gbe ports on both ends of that transfer in order to see any substantial gain. For home use, I think 10Gbe is overkill.

Actually you only need a 10gbe port on your switch to see a benefit.

A server with a single 10gbe connection to a switch can in theory saturate 10 clients connected to that switch at gigabit. In reality, probably 5 clients or so.

So, if you ever slam your NAS from a few computers simultaneously, then the 10gbe would multiply your throughput.

 

[Stux]

Anything from the QVL is going to be half the price. Look for 16GB UDIMMs.

The x10sdv supports 128GB of ram using 32GB RDIMMs. Or 96 if you add a pair of 32s to a pair of 16s. I assume you can't mix udimms and rdimms.

I think advising to put udimms into an x10sdv and thus limiting the platform to 64GB is not a good idea.

I fact, I'd advise to use a single 32GB RDIMM. One day add another and go dual channel. And you still have room for another 64GB down the road.

 

[Ericloewe]

I fact, I'd advise to use a single 32GB RDIMM.

Sure that's an option if cost is similar. Not it it's 800 dollarydoos like the two 16GB modules, it'd be cheaper to replace the UDIMMs if/when needed, after the shortage improves.

 

[Stux]

Sure that's an option if cost is similar. Not it it's 800 dollarydoos like the two 16GB modules, it'd be cheaper to replace the UDIMMs if/when needed, after the shortage improves.

This is true. And DDR4 prices are ludicrous at the moment.

 

[Inxsible]

Sure that's an option if cost is similar. Not it it's 800 dollarydoos like the two 16GB modules, it'd be cheaper to replace the UDIMMs if/when needed, after the shortage improves.

Correct, I agree with that sentiment. If you are never going to need that much RAM, why put in the cost? The OP has but a few VMs to run along with FreeNAS.

I think advising to put udimms into an x10sdv and thus limiting the platform to 64GB is not a good idea.

That's why I also mentioned to build a system that will be utilized evenly instead of under-utilization. If the OP doesn't really need 128 GB RAM, then maybe don't even buy x10sdv. There are other boards out there which might be cheaper and also be enough in terms of memory support for the OP's needs.

 

[Neosphere]

So, pretty much my Node 304/X10SDV build ;), which I built to have high Wife Acceptance Factor and to go in a living room.
...

Dear mother of NAS. This is pretty much what I want. This will cost me waaay to much and I probably won't need all of this.

So you could boot ESXI install FreeNAS as VM, install Plex as VM and install Webserver as VM and it would all perform great?
Did you hit the wall with s.th. since you started the build?
You have two SSDs, one for the ESXI installation and VMs and one for the file system cache of FreeNAS, correct?
Why the 2 USB sticks? You mirror the boot disk for FreeNAS? Are those fast enough? Well it's only boot...
Does your Plex VM perform well in that setup?

Wouldn't using a larger HTPC case be better for the air flow? Look at Lian-Li PC-O6SX, for example or even Lian Li PC-C60. Aaaand did you see http://de.thermaltake.com/Gehäuse/B...00002458/Level_10_Titanium_Edition/design.htm ;)

This would cost about USD3700 if I buy 6 new 8TB disks. This is madness ;)

 

[Stux]

Dear mother of NAS. This is pretty much what I want. This will cost me waaay to much and I probably won't need all of this.

Probably ;)

So you could boot ESXI install FreeNAS as VM, install Plex as VM and install Webserver as VM and it would all perform great?

Yes. Biggest limiting factor is ram

Did you hit the wall with s.th. since you started the build?

Not sure what you mean. Only wall I've hit is the nas seems limited to about 1GB/s. Which is pretty quick.

You have two SSDs, one for the ESXI installation and VMs and one for the file system cache of FreeNAS, correct?
[/quote]

Correct. The latter is optional. You could just store your VMs on the boot ESXi ssd.

Why the 2 USB sticks? You mirror the boot disk for FreeNAS? Are those fast enough? Well it's only boot...

Standard way of booting FreeNAS without a separate boot disk. You didn't need them, but I had them setup and working before I bought the m2 disk and installed ESXi.

Did give me a fallback while I was learning ESXi.

Does your Plex VM perform well in that setup?

It should. Haven't finished setting that up yet :)

It will be able to use 8 vcpus.

Wouldn't using a larger HTPC case be better for the air flow?

airflow with the Noctuas is fine.

Look at Lian-Li PC-O6SX, for example or even Lian Li PC-C60. Aaaand did you see

I don't want a bigger case

http://de.thermaltake.com/Gehäuse/Big_Tower_/Level_10/C_00002458/Level_10_Titanium_Edition/design.htm ;)

Renderings don't count.

This would cost about USD3700 if I buy 6 new 8TB disks. This is madness ;)

Well. Big drives cost big dollars. But you don't *need* the p3700, and I basically borrowed that from my Primarily onsite servers future.