Welcome to TrueNAS SCALE - Beginners Intro

[gdreade]

The following is intended as friendly discussion; NOT a complaint.

I've been running various TrueNAS Core systems (only one of which is in my .sig) for a few years and haven't followed these forums for a bit because of $DayJob$ time limitations. Meanwhile, my TrueNAS Core systems have been happily churning away in the background, doing their job quite nicely.

I finally had some time today to try to figure out, "so what is this new TrueNAS Scale product?". Keep in mind that prior to this I'd heard nothing about TrueNAS Scale other than the name. I read through the docs on the primary TrueNAS site, then came to the forums and found this article fairly quickly. Despite having a few decades' of experience in enterprise systems deployments and software development I found that I was having a hard time trying to narrow down the actual target use cases for TrueNAS Scale. (Calling something a hyperscaler tells me a bit about the hardware stack, but only very generically about intended usage and target audience.)

I could tell fairly quickly that part of it was horizontal scaling of storage, had "apps" like TrueNAS Core, and allowed the running of VMs. By the time it got to Kubernetes things were quite a bit less clear. For quite a while it seemed like TrueNAS Scale was only providing a CSI for k8s, but the GUI docs look like "Custom Apps" are a way to create a k8s Deployment? (I'm still not quite sure about that one; maybe it's just a plain container sans k8s?.) Other forum posts imply that early on a single-node k8s deployment was possible via an app deployment, but things may have become multi-node since then.

The thread at What's the nature of TrueNAS Scale? was probably the most enlighting so far in trying to answer the "what does it do?" question. I get the distinct impression that we're still in the early days and what it does *now* is not necessarily the full plan for TrueNAS Scale, but if there's a public roadmap then I've missed it.

May I suggest that the Beginners' Intro document could use a short generic, "What does it do?"-type section?

As far as I can tell so far, the following key points summarize it relative to TrueNAS Core, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that I'm off-base:

- the target market is essentially on-prem or hybrid cloud operations; any applicability to home lab setups is pure gravy
- TrueNAS Scale at the lowest level allows for horizontal scaling of storage beyond the capacity of TrueNAS Core (by introducing GlusterFS)
- TrueCommand (among other things) provides a way to orchestrate and monitor resources on a cluster of TrueNAS Scale nodes
- TrueNAS Scale expands TrueNAS Core's set of network storage protocols to include a Kubernetes CSI (and thus providing PVs)
- While TrueNAS Core can run TrueNAS "apps" and VMs, TrueNAS Scale adds the ability to also run Linux custom containers
- While TrueNAS Core can run VMs and TrueNAS plugins (via jails), TrueNAS Scale replaces plugins in jails with containers in Kubernetes
- In addition to TrueNAS Scale's nodes providing k8s storage, each node can also provide compute for a k8s cluster (implied by previous point)
- It appears that under Bluefin that multiple TrueNAS Scale nodes can act as a single k8s cluster, where the k8s control plane gets installed via the "app" mechanism? (k8s is part of the base install?)

I realize that much of this may be clearer if one were to actually run TrueNAS Scale, but coming in cold on a product I would not normally bother trying it out if I didn't first have a pretty good idea as to the role it is intended to fill.

(Edited to use the full "TrueNAS" name rather than abbreviations.)
(Edited to correct some assumptions and terminology, per feedback.)

 

[Arwen]

Hmm, you are right in some of the parts. I have added this early on;

One key difference between Core & SCALE is that SCALE can use Apps based on Kubernetes. This allows containerized programs to be more easily deployed, than Core's Jails, Plugins or VMs. But, it is still a work in progress, (and Kubernetes is NOT Docker).

The "what is TrueNAS SCALE" comments are quite fair. But I will leave it to others to write that up. Well, I will say that many new GUI features are being tried out on SCALE first. Then some will make their way to Core, which is considered a very stable product. Thus, iX does not want to experiment on Core.

When this resource and discussion thread was written, we kept getting new SCALE users who thought that SCALE was a Linux distro and that it had a NAS application. This is of course not true, and lead to many new SCALE users being confused, disappointed, or out right angry. So we tried to set the stage as new SCALE users announced themselves here in the forums, to help them understand what TrueNAS SCALE is. And what it is not.

 

[sretalla]

- While TS Core can run TrueNAS "apps" and VMs, TS Scale adds the ability to also run Linux custom containers

This statement is particularly misguiding.

CORE can not run "apps" at all... it can run jails which may or may not be plugins (which maybe you're confusing for apps, see here: https://www.truenas.com/blog/the-future-of-truenas-plugins-is-apps/).

A lot of folks here would also object to your use of TS as an abbreviation of TrueNAS. That is not an accepted abbreviation, please don't use it.

For quite a while it seemed like TN Scale was only providing a CSI for k8s, but the GUI docs look like "Custom Apps" are a way to create a k8s Deployment? (I'm still not quite sure about that one; maybe it's just a plain container sans k8s?.)

All container deployments in SCALE are via Kubernetes (even the ones launched with the "Launch Docker Image" button). The ongoing management of such a deployment is via the same engine/system, it's just a chart which allows for a single container to run with some "standard" parameters.

 

[gdreade]

This statement is particularly misguiding.
CORE can not run "apps" at all... it can run jails which may or may not be plugins (which maybe you're confusing for apps, see here: https://www.truenas.com/blog/the-future-of-truenas-plugins-is-apps/).

Yes, I was inappropriately using the same term for both concepts. I was focusing on the concept of packaged programs, but agree that it was a source of confusion.

A lot of folks here would also object to your use of TS as an abbreviation of TrueNAS. That is not an accepted abbreviation, please don't use it.

Noted and corrected.

 

[gdreade]

Hmm, you are right in some of the parts. I have added [more info] early on;

I think your edits are sufficient; thanks.

 

[Arwen]

Based on the amount of SCALE modifications by people who think SCALE is Linux, I have updated this;

• TrueNAS SCALE is based on Linux, while TrueNAS Core uses FreeBSD, and uses different user land packages
• Both SCALE & Core only use ZFS for data storage. If you are looking for something disk compatible with MS-Windows, look elsewhere. (But network accessible from MS-Windows is a fully supported feature.)
• SCALE is a specialized & targeted OS based on Linux, so installing additional packages on the base OS will likely lead to frustration as they will disappear during an update

To be this, moving some items further down.

• SCALE is a specialized & targeted OS based on a Linux distro. However, SCALE is NOT a Linux distro, and updates are by full replacement by new version of SCALE.
• Installing additional packages on SCALE's base OS will likely lead to frustration as they will disappear after an update.
• Modification of SCALE outside of the GUI and Middleware CLI is highly discouraged, as this has led to many problems requiring far too much time to troubleshoot.
• TrueNAS SCALE is based on Linux, while TrueNAS Core uses FreeBSD, and uses different user land packages
• Both SCALE & Core only use ZFS for data storage. If you are looking for something disk compatible with MS-Windows, look elsewhere. (But network accessible from MS-Windows is a fully supported feature.)

 

[sfatula]

Everyone may not agree, but, how 'bout a warning about upgrading to a .0 release? I think especially noobs need to avoid .0 release, so many have been updating and regretting it, just like the last time. I just think it's good advice for them.

This problem in turn causes all these "emergency" help requests not only here but in other forums as well.

 

[Arwen]

Everyone may not agree, but, how 'bout a warning about upgrading to a .0 release? I think especially noobs need to avoid .0 release, so many have been updating and regretting it, just like the last time. I just think it's good advice for them.

This problem in turn causes all these "emergency" help requests not only here but in other forums as well.

Perhaps. Part of the problem is that a new user of SCALE may read this at the beginning, but forget details by the time they are upgrading.

If you have concise wording, no longer in length to the other line items, I can see about adding something.

 

[Arwen]

Something I have noticed recently, is that some new users think that TrueNAS is pure, 100% GUI. No shell login is required. I am not referring to people who have less experience with Unix SHELL and need some advice, (or out right hand holding). Those usually can be helped enough to get the problem resolved.

On the other hand, I think the below is appropriate, and I have added it to the Resource;

• Sometimes troubleshooting requires logging in via SHELL, (SSH or GUI SHELL), to run commands. If you never want to do this, neither TrueNAS SCALE or Core, is likely the right fit for you.

 

[truecharts]

Something I have noticed recently, is that some new users think that TrueNAS is pure, 100% GUI. No shell login is required. I am not referring to people who have less experience with Unix SHELL and need some advice, (or out right hand holding). Those usually can be helped enough to get the problem resolved.

On the other hand, I think the below is appropriate, and I have added it to the Resource;

Suggestion:
Again highlight the fact modifications are adviced against, to put it into context and maybe put it under the section about modifications via GUI?

While making modifications to the system using SHELL is actively advised against, sometimes troubleshooting requires logging in via SHELL, (SSH or GUI SHELL), to run commands. If you never want to do this, neither TrueNAS SCALE or Core, is likely the right fit for you.

 

[Arwen]

Suggestion:
Again highlight the fact modifications are adviced against, to put it into context and maybe put it under the section about modifications via GUI?

While making modifications to the system using SHELL is actively advised against, sometimes troubleshooting requires logging in via SHELL, (SSH or GUI SHELL), to run commands. If you never want to do this, neither TrueNAS SCALE or Core, is likely the right fit for you.

I want to keep the high priority items at the top, and reasonably clean. It is only after they have more or less agreed to those items, that the others make sense.

This is so that someone considering TrueNAS SCALE can glance at the first few items and eliminate SCALE if it does not fit their needs. For example, we occasionally get someone wanting disk compatibility with MS-Windows. While OpenZFS on MS-Windows is a real thing, it is not anywhere supported by Microsoft. So the real answer for that user is find another NAS software package.

Or the dedicated boot device requirement. Some think that is too much for a low end home NAS. These users should at least know how the software was designed.

This "Intro" also shouldn't be too long. Already I think it is 30% longer than the attention span of some people searching for NAS software. They may read the first dozen or 2 lines, but not the rest. It is to their benefit to finish it, but people are people...