SMART functionality on ThinkServer RAID 720i AnyRAID (smartd.conf is empty)

[T H R E E]

Please take into account before reading I am a complete FreeNAS noob. So I have a thinkserver TD350 that has a ThinkServer RAID 720i AnyRAID (LSI 3108) raid controller installed . Let me get the other hardware in here too. The CPU is a single Xeon E5-2640 v4, It has 48gb off ddr3. I don't know what the motherboard model is because its a lenovo designed one. If you're interested more in the system look here https://lenovopress.com/lp0053-thinkserver-td350-e5-2600-v4. There are 4 SSDs and 8 HDDs connected to the raid card right now they are irrelevant as they aren't holding any data but they are configured in JBOD.

We've decided to use FreeNAS 11.3-U2.1 on this server and before you start telling me about FreeNAS not supporting raid cards like this, I know, I've read many forum posts on here regarding this subject, but FreeNAS is what was decided this server would run. I would like to know if anyone has knowledge about getting these types of cards functional properly with SMART in FreeNAS. The main problem I have encountered with this card that's needs to be solved is that I cannot get the smartd service to start. /usr/local/etc/smartd.conf exists but always is empty. /etc/ix.rc.d/ix-smartd doesn't exist (though I'm starting to believe this is just not included in the OS anymore). I should add to this that only the mfi driver allows me to see the drives in FreeNAS and while using the mfi driver if i try to run smartctl for one of the drives I get.

Code:

/dev/mfisyspd0: Unable to detect device type
Please specify device type with the -d option.

I was hoping that I could get smartctl to give me something if I used the mrsas driver but for the life of me I cant get the drives to show up in /dev/ with mrsas. Will using the mrsas driver help get SMART working or am I screwed because of the raid card. If getting the mrsas driver working will help then I need someone who can explain to me this, on boot with the mrsas driver all of my drives are recognized and assigned device names (da0-da11) and then the boot usb is assigned da12 but at some point in the boot process I get one of these

Code:

(da6:mrsas0:1:35:0): Periph destroyed

Here is a the log

Code:

ugen1.2: <vendor 0x8087 product 0x8002> at usbus1
uhub2 numa-domain 0 on uhub1
uhub2: <vendor 0x8087 product 0x8002, class 9/0, rev 2.00/0.05, addr 2> on usbus1
uhub2: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered
ugen0.3: <Samsung Flash Drive> at usbus0
umass0 numa-domain 0 on uhub0
umass0: <Samsung Flash Drive, class 0/0, rev 3.10/11.00, addr 2> on usbus0
umass0:  SCSI over Bulk-Only; quirks = 0x4000
umass0:3:0: Attached to scbus3
ses0 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 0 lun 0
ses0: <Lenovo 720ix 0305> Fixed Enclosure Services SPC-3 SCSI device
ses0: 150.000MB/s transfers
ses0: SES Device
da12 at umass-sim0 bus 0 scbus3 target 0 lun 0
da12: <Samsung Flash Drive 1100> Removable Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da12: Serial Number 0373519040004367
da0 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 29 lun 0
da3 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 32 lun 0
da12: 400.000MB/s transfers
da12: 61188MB (125313283 512 byte sectors)
da0: da3: da12: quirks=0x2<NO_6_BYTE>
<ATA Samsung SSD 850 2B6Q> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da0: Serial Number S2R5NX0H428101L
<ATA KINGSTON SUV400S 37R5> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da3: Serial Number 50026B777302CAED
da1 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 30 lun 0
da0: 150.000MB/s transfersda3: 150.000MB/s transfersda1:

da3: 228936MB (468862128 512 byte sectors)
da0: 238475MB (488397168 512 byte sectors)
<ATA KINGSTON SUV400S 37R5> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da1: Serial Number 50026B777302D0B2
da7 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 36 lun 0
da0: quirks=0x8<4K>
da1: 150.000MB/s transfersda7:
da1: 228936MB (468862128 512 byte sectors)
<ATA WDC WD10JPVX-00J 1A01> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da7: Serial Number WD-WX41A46J33P8
da7: 150.000MB/s transfersda5 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 34 lun 0
da5:
da7: 953869MB (1953525168 512 byte sectors)
da2 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 31 lun 0
<ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da2: <ATA KINGSTON SUV400S 37R5> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da2: Serial Number 50026B777305371A
da5: Serial Number JR1004D322U14M
da5: 150.000MB/s transfersda2: 150.000MB/s transfers
da2: 228936MB (468862128 512 byte sectors)

da5: 953869MB (1953525168 512 byte sectors)
da9 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 38 lun 0
da6 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 35 lun 0
da9: <ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da6: <ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da6: Serial Number JR1004D31SHP7N
da9: Serial Number JR1004D31VXX9M
da9: 150.000MB/s transfersda6: 150.000MB/s transfers
da6: 953869MB (1953525168 512 byte sectors)

da9: 953869MB (1953525168 512 byte sectors)
da10 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 39 lun 0
da10: <ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> Fixed Direct Access SPC-4 SCSI device
da10: Serial Number JR1004D322U2ZM
da10: 150.000MB/s transfers
da10: 953869MB (1953525168 512 byte sectors)
da0 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 29 lun 0
ses0: da1,pass2 in 'ArrayDevice00', SAS Slot: 1 phys at slot 0
da0: ses0:  phy 0: SATA device
ses0:  phy 0: parent 500062b200bfa0bf addr 500062b200bfa088
<ATA Samsung SSD 850 2B6Q> s/n S2R5NX0H428101L      detached
da7 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 36 lun 0
g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
da7: <ATA WDC WD10JPVX-00J 1A01> s/n WD-WX41A46J33P8 detached
da3 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 32 lun 0
g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
da3: g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
<ATA KINGSTON SUV400S 37R5> s/n 50026B777302CAED     detached
da5 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 34 lun 0
da5: g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
g_access(944): provider da0 has error 6 set
<ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> s/n JR1004D322U14M detached
da9 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 38 lun 0
(da3:da9: <ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> s/n JR1004D31VXX9M detached
da1 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 30 lun 0
ses0: (none) in 'ArrayDevice01', SAS Slot: 1 phys at slot 1
mrsas0:1:32:0): Periph destroyed
(da5:da1: ses0:  phy 0: SATA device
mrsas0:1:<ATA KINGSTON SUV400S 37R5> s/n 50026B777302D0B2     detached
da6 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 35 lun 0
34:0): ses0:  phy 0: parent 500062b200bfa0bf addr 500062b200bfa089
Periph destroyed
da6: <ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0> s/n JR1004D31SHP7N detached
(da1:mrsas0:1:da10 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 39 lun 0
da10: 30:0): <ATA HGST HTS721010A9 A3U0>Periph destroyed
(da6:mrsas0:1:35:0): Periph destroyed
(da7: s/n JR1004D322U2ZM detached
da2 at mrsas0 bus 1 scbus1 target 31 lun 0
da2: mrsas0:1:36:0): Periph destroyed
(da9:mrsas0:1:38:0): Periph destroyed
(da10:<ATA KINGSTON SUV400S 37R5> s/n 50026B777305371A     detached
mrsas0:1:39:0): Periph destroyed
(da2:ses0: (none) in 'ArrayDevice02', SAS Slot: 1 phys at slot 2
mrsas0:1:ses0:  phy 0: SATA device
ses0:  phy 0: parent 500062b200bfa0bf addr 500062b200bfa08a
31:0): Periph destroyed
ses0: da0 in 'ArrayDevice03', SAS Slot: 1 phys at slot 3
ses0:  phy 0: SATA device
ses0:  phy 0: parent 500062b200bfa0bf addr 500062b200bfa08b
(da0:mrsas0:1:29:0): Periph destroyed
random: unblocking device.
Trying to mount root from zfs:freenas-boot/ROOT/default []...

If the driver isn't causing this then I have no idea what is causing smartd to not start, nothing I try will get smartd.conf to generate, and I'm running out of ideas. Trying to start it manually returns that it failed to start and that startd.conf is empty. Let me also say I have disabled SMART for my boot usb drive which did not solve the issue and also tried starting the service while just the usb and only one drive (that i know SMART works on) physically in the chassis and the service still refuses to start. My only other thought is that the USB may be causing some issues and we are planning to buy a different boot drive, but I don't know why it would cause all of this. Any help you can give is much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[jgreco]

Yes, they're easily sorted out.

You open the server, you remove the RAID card, you put your crossflashed LSI HBA in IT mode with 20.00.07.00 firmware in, connect the cables, and it all works.

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...bas-and-why-cant-i-use-a-raid-controller.139/

You might think that your situation somehow is different, or that your hardware is magic, or the MFI driver will work better for you than for everyone else, or that you're smarter or cleverer than all the people who came before you. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. ZFS is not designed to work with a hardware RAID card, it expects to BE your RAID solution. And FreeBSD's support for the MFI driver in particular is something I've had to call out several times as being problematic. It might be 99% OK. It might be 99.9% OK. I'm sure it's fine for a FreeBSD server doing normal server-y things. But ZFS places unusual stress on the I/O system, so you really need something that's as close to perfect as possible.

 

[T H R E E]

Yes, they're easily sorted out.

You open the server, you remove the RAID card, you put your crossflashed LSI HBA in IT mode with 20.00.07.00 firmware in, connect the cables, and it all works.

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...as-and-why-can't-i-use-a-raid-controller.139/

You might think that your situation somehow is different, or that your hardware is magic, or the MFI driver will work better for you than for everyone else, or that you're smarter or cleverer than all the people who came before you. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. ZFS is not designed to work with a hardware RAID card, it expects to BE your RAID solution. And FreeBSD's support for the MFI driver in particular is something I've had to call out several times as being problematic. It might be 99% OK. It might be 99.9% OK. I'm sure it's fine for a FreeBSD server doing normal server-y things. But ZFS places unusual stress on the I/O system, so you really need something that's as close to perfect as possible.

Oh trust me I don't think our hardware is magic or it will magically work in my case. Like I said I am a complete noob when it comes to both FreeBSD and FreeNAS though I have experience in linux, my point is that's not what I'm getting at. The problem is I would love to just go and buy an HBA but I feel like it would be easier to get a new server and throw an HBA in because of how proprietary this Lenovo one is. I feel as if I'd have to do a lot of DIY to get all the drives connected to a pcie HBA. If you look into that link to the server you'll see the RAID card I have and how it mounts you will understand what I mean. To reiterate a point I made originally I don't want to use the MFI driver as I've already experienced some of its jenkyness. Mainly I just want to know if there's any possible way to get this card running with the mrsas driver. I'm inclined to believe it can be done because of the first post by Ericloewe on this page of this post https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/lsi-3108-it-mode.46407/page-2. I don't necessarily want the solution Elliot is talking about in that thread but really all we care about is getting the drive monitoring to work at this moment. I know it can be a pain down the line to change out controllers as I said earlier the chassis kinda makes it difficult to put any other controller in. I just want to clarify I'm not trying to be stubborn its just my organization would be a lot more unhappy if I have to build a new server and also buy a HBA.

 

[T H R E E]

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...as-and-why-can't-i-use-a-raid-controller.139/

You might think that your situation somehow is different, or that your hardware is magic, or the MFI driver will work better for you than for everyone else, or that you're smarter or cleverer than all the people who came before you. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. ZFS is not designed to work with a hardware RAID card, it expects to BE your RAID solution.

It's funny you sent that link I had it open in the next tab. I want to use ZFS's alternative to raid, like I'm not trying to use the raid on the card at all I just don't know what to do physically to incorporate an HBA. I wish raid cards just had an HBA mode or something.

 

[jgreco]

We've never seen this end well. If it works, it works maybe-okay right up until you have some stressy event like a scrub or resilver at which point there is much unhappiness and wailing as to how everything's gone sideways and (in a bad case) your pool is broken.

The state of LSI RAID drivers and the tendency for ZFS to issue crushing amounts of I/O aren't really issues under my control, just as your available hardware platform isn't under your control. Even if you figure out a magic incantation to get SMART status, this isn't going to work well for you.

If you're simply unfamiliar with SAS, it would probably be worth going through

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...-sas-sy-a-primer-on-basic-sas-and-sata.26145/

and we might be able to figure out the most efficient path forward for an HBA replacement. Since I don't have your type of machine here in the shop, it's a bit difficult to make general comments that are more useful than the primer just linked.

 

[T H R E E]

We've never seen this end well. If it works, it works maybe-okay right up until you have some stressy event like a scrub or resilver at which point there is much unhappiness and wailing as to how everything's gone sideways and (in a bad case) your pool is broken.

The state of LSI RAID drivers and the tendency for ZFS to issue crushing amounts of I/O aren't really issues under my control, just as your available hardware platform isn't under your control. Even if you figure out a magic incantation to get SMART status, this isn't going to work well for you.

If you're simply unfamiliar with SAS, it would probably be worth going through

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...-sas-sy-a-primer-on-basic-sas-and-sata.26145/

and we might be able to figure out the most efficient path forward for an HBA replacement. Since I don't have your type of machine here in the shop, it's a bit difficult to make general comments that are more useful than the primer just linked.

I will read that once I get home it looks helpful. You're right I'm not very familiar with SAS which is why taking out the expensive raid card and expensive backplane then jerryrigging an HBA is a bit daunting to me but I trust its most likely possible and less daunting then I expect. I feel as though the backplane is my main worry that I don't even know what to put in to replace it. Hopefully that thread you linked will spread some more knowledge though I fear its going to be a cabling nightmare. Are there any must knows you can give me about hooking up an HBA that wont be in that thread. Thanks again for the help I really appreciate it and I just want to say you seem cool and I like the zingers you throw out. "The state of LSI RAID drivers and the tendency for ZFS to issue crushing amounts of I/O aren't really issues under my control, just as your available hardware platform isn't under your control." is a 10/10

 

[HoneyBadger]

I've taken a quick look at the TD350, and I don't see anything that precludes the use of a regular HBA. You'll need some additional hardware possibly, but ultimately if the backplane hits the expander and then delivers 2x SAS-HD ports to the 720i, it's just a matter of making sure the server itself will accept a SAS3008 card and hooking up the cables. I didn't read anything specific to the backplane that makes it Lenovo-specific.

But I could be wrong. It would be the first time I saw a vendor do dumb things with their backplane firmware.

Do you have any further technical resources or internal photographs/wiring diagrams for the SAS topology of this server?

 

[T H R E E]

I've taken a quick look at the TD350, and I don't see anything that precludes the use of a regular HBA. You'll need some additional hardware possibly, but ultimately if the backplane hits the expander and then delivers 2x SAS-HD ports to the 720i, it's just a matter of making sure the server itself will accept a SAS3008 card and hooking up the cables. I didn't read anything specific to the backplane that makes it Lenovo-specific.

But I could be wrong. It would be the first time I saw a vendor do dumb things with their backplane firmware.

Do you have any further technical resources or internal photographs/wiring diagrams for the SAS topology of this server?

I dont know too much about SAS cabling but I believe I know what SAS-HD cables are. I believe there are two of these that plug into the 720i but I am not sure where the expander is in the system and I sadly dont have any diagrams but on Monday I will be able to supply photographs. The 720i connects directly to the backplane and the SAS-HD cables come from somewhere else in the case so is there no expander or maybe its built into the card? I'm not sure. To be honest with you I didnt pay attention to where the SAS-HD cables were coming from when I was switching the cache's of the raid cards the other day(forgot to mention we have two of them). You mentioned additional hardware what other hardware might we need?

 

[HoneyBadger]

I would suspect that the backplane itself has the expander logic in it, or perhaps there's a separate PCIe-powered expander that hopefully isn't locked into using a Lenovo card. If it is, that might be something that would need to be replaced with a more generic one.

Finding the two cables that go into the 720i and plugging them into a SAS3008 might be enough.

 

[Redcoat]

Does this help understanding? (from doc at https://lenovopress.com/lp0053-thinkserver-td350-e5-2600-v4:

• AnyRAID 720i is a RoC-based 12Gb SAS/SATA controller that offers advanced RAID configurations, protection, and software. It supports RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60 with optional 1 GB cache (without flash), or 1 GB, 2 GB or 4 GB cache each with CacheVault (flash), CacheCade, and FastPath support. Maximum 8 drives.
• AnyRAID 720ix is similar to the 720i but also includes a SAS Expander to support up to 16 drives in the TD350. It is a 12 GB SAS/SATA controller with support for RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60. Cache is required, either 1 GB cache (without flash), or 1 GB, 2GB or 4GB cache each with CacheVault (flash), CacheCade, and FastPath support.

Also, the product guide for the adapter family is at https://lenovopress.com/lp0551-thinkserver-raid-720i-anyraid-720i-720ix-adapters

 

[HoneyBadger]

So it looks like Lenovo has some of their "AnyRaid" cards in a proprietary form factor that fits directly on the backplane. It also seems to imply that the backplane doesn't have an expander in it; so I'd expect to see a number of the SAS ports directly from the drive cages. If that's the type you have, you'd need to see if the backplane can operate without the AnyRaid card, and then install a separate SAS3 expander in a slot, get a longer set of cables to run from cages to expander, and then expander to HBA.

 

[T H R E E]

So it looks like Lenovo has some of their "AnyRaid" cards in a proprietary form factor that fits directly on the backplane. It also seems to imply that the backplane doesn't have an expander in it; so I'd expect to see a number of the SAS ports directly from the drive cages. If that's the type you have, you'd need to see if the backplane can operate without the AnyRaid card, and then install a separate SAS3 expander in a slot, get a longer set of cables to run from cages to expander, and then expander to HBA.

I believe I read that the backplane doesn't have the expanded but the anyraid card has one built in. No that I am back let me show some pictures.

The backplane has two of one of these plugged in per section which I can only assume is a power connector

The 720i has two of these connectors plugged into it which are I assumed were the SAS-HD cables you were referring to, I couldn't trace these cables as it appears they connect on the bottom of the motherboard, but it does seem like the attach directly to the mobo.

He is an image of the backplane and the 720i AnyRAID card

That connector defiantly looks proprietary to me and I do not see any SAS ports directly on the backplane. Would it be possible to attach an expander to this backplane? If not is there an obvious possible solution for installing an HBA.

 

[Redcoat]

I believe I read that the backplane doesn't have the expanded but the anyraid card has one built in.

You earlier identified the anyraid card as the "i" version - which, according to the spec details does not have the expander built in. It's the "iX" version that does.

 

[T H R E E]

You earlier identified the anyraid card as the "i" version - which, according to the spec details does not have the expander built in. It's the "iX" version that does.

Then I must've misread it must not have an expander. I am certain it is the i version without the X.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks for the photos. Unfortunately it looks like your backplane only sends SAS upstream via those PCIe-looking slots that are proprietary to Lenovo; and reading the second document about the adapter family, it looks as if the SFF-8643 connectors (or "SAS-HD" as I've been calling them) coming off the AnyRaid card going into your motherboard are actually carrying PCIe signaling and not SAS signals - it's a way to extend eight PCIe lanes from your motherboard to the AnyRaid card on the back of the chassis.

Ultimately though, for officially supported solutions you're stuck with the backplane options that Lenovo gives you, and all the ones I've seen only have the slots for AnyRaid cards. The 8-drive ones might have SFF-8643 plugs directly on the back of them, but I can't find pictures. There must be some backplanes that do this, as the AnyRaid 720i is available in a regular PCIe form factor and in that format it carries 2x SFF-8643 - so it follows that whatever backplane it connects to must have a matching set on the other end. If it's possible to find 2x 8-drive SFF-8643 backplanes and install those ... there's your solution. But it involves mothballing your current backplanes and AnyRaid card.

If a jerry-rigged solution via removing the backplane entirely is an option, you'd have to find a way to get a number of SAS-to-SATA forward breakout cables routed, as well as supply power to each drive. A PCIe-based expander or multiple HBAs would be required, and then you'd have quite the bit of spaghetti cabling at the front (which some hook-and-loop tape might help mitigate but will never remove)

I know that official LSI SAS3108 cards do seem to be able to behave in a wholly JBOD mode with the mrsas driver according to @Ericloewe 's comment in the thread you linked previously ... but it's also entirely possible that Lenovo has eliminated this functionality in their custom cards, and trying to flash LSI firmware to a custom-form-factor card is likely to result in a paperweight unless there's a documented/known procedure for it (similar to how it took some time to get the "mini" form factor Dell cards to take an LSI IT binary.)

 

[T H R E E]

Thanks for the photos. Unfortunately it looks like your backplane only sends SAS upstream via those PCIe-looking slots that are proprietary to Lenovo; and reading the second document about the adapter family, it looks as if the SFF-8643 connectors (or "SAS-HD" as I've been calling them) coming off the AnyRaid card going into your motherboard are actually carrying PCIe signaling and not SAS signals - it's a way to extend eight PCIe lanes from your motherboard to the AnyRaid card on the back of the chassis.

Ultimately though, for officially supported solutions you're stuck with the backplane options that Lenovo gives you, and all the ones I've seen only have the slots for AnyRaid cards. The 8-drive ones might have SFF-8643 plugs directly on the back of them, but I can't find pictures. There must be some backplanes that do this, as the AnyRaid 720i is available in a regular PCIe form factor and in that format it carries 2x SFF-8643 - so it follows that whatever backplane it connects to must have a matching set on the other end. If it's possible to find 2x 8-drive SFF-8643 backplanes and install those ... there's your solution. But it involves mothballing your current backplanes and AnyRaid card.

If a jerry-rigged solution via removing the backplane entirely is an option, you'd have to find a way to get a number of SAS-to-SATA forward breakout cables routed, as well as supply power to each drive. A PCIe-based expander or multiple HBAs would be required, and then you'd have quite the bit of spaghetti cabling at the front (which some hook-and-loop tape might help mitigate but will never remove)

I know that official LSI SAS3108 cards do seem to be able to behave in a wholly JBOD mode with the mrsas driver according to @Ericloewe 's comment in the thread you linked previously ... but it's also entirely possible that Lenovo has eliminated this functionality in their custom cards, and trying to flash LSI firmware to a custom-form-factor card is likely to result in a paperweight unless there's a documented/known procedure for it (similar to how it took some time to get the "mini" form factor Dell cards to take an LSI IT binary.)

Thank you for the research you've done on this. I had guessed that this might be the case once I took those pictures and looked at it myself again. You make a very good point though about the 720i being made in the PCIe form factor there must be some backplane out there that accommodates it. You mention the 8-drive backplanes, would you be able to link to the backplane you are talking about. I am going to look into seeing if I can't find that backplane for the PCIe form factor card. Let me note too that each of the sections of our backplane supports 8 drives. I'd like to ask a question though. I'm pretty inexperienced with server grade storage solutions so I'm not very well versed in backplanes all together. Is it possible that there would be some kind of generic backplane that would be able to be installed (even if not neatly) into this chassis, because that would be simpler in my mind the hunting down this backplane made for this chassis and I assume those power cables on the backplane aren't proprietary, correct? so maybe a generic backplane could use the same power adapters and it would just be a matter of getting the SAS signalling to the backplane. If that were possible it would pretty much be the same solution as getting the Lenovo backplane that accepts the SFF-8643 cables. Like I said I wouldn't know if those kind of backplanes are manufactured or not.

 

[HoneyBadger]

The rabbit hole deepens. The TD350 seems to share a lot of parts with the RD450 in the drive cage department.

I found a photo of the sister part 00HV325 (5x3.5") from a third party site, see below:

and it does have 2x SFF-8087 ports on the back end. It might be an older generation possibly. But it does hint to the existence of backplanes that provide regular SAS ports. But I couldn't find the 8x2.5" model 00HV327, and the upgrade kit for the RD450 that seems to include it (4XF0G45894) shows it having the same unholy PCIe-looking slot on the back:

Not only that, but the photo I found of the lesser AnyRaid cards shows it having only one "slot" of connectivity, which would preclude it from being used with more than one backplane, so you can't simply buy an extra card and use multiple cards:

Is it possible that there would be some kind of generic backplane that would be able to be installed (even if not neatly) into this chassis, because that would be simpler in my mind the hunting down this backplane made for this chassis and I assume those power cables on the backplane aren't proprietary, correct? so maybe a generic backplane could use the same power adapters and it would just be a matter of getting the SAS signalling to the backplane. If that were possible it would pretty much be the same solution as getting the Lenovo backplane that accepts the SFF-8643 cables. Like I said I wouldn't know if those kind of backplanes are manufactured or not.

Doubtful, unfortunately. Servers are high-margin products for vendors, so you aren't likely to see a common backplane outside of rebranded solutions (eg: a vendor that is using a SuperMicro or Dell chassis through their OEM program) - the power cabling I wouldn't count on being universal especially based on historical problems with consumer or enterprise-grade systems using non-ATX pinouts for power supply. In addition, if you get it wrong, you end up letting the Magical Blue Smoke escape from the hardware, and then it definitely won't work. ;)

Unless you can find an 8x2.5" backplane that gives you SFF-8087 or SFF-8643 connectors off the upstream side, the only way this will work in this specific server is via the aforementioned breakout-cable-spaghetti-alfredo and multiple HBAs and/or expander cards.

Side note - Looking at your initial logs it also seems that all of your drives negotiated at 150MB/s.

 

[T H R E E]

You earlier identified the anyraid card as the "i" version - which, according to the spec details does not have the expander built in. It's the "iX" version that does.

I can't believe myself, right there in the initial logs i posted it says we have the 720ix I'm sorry for the confusion. To be honest I believe the other one we have is the 720i but the one that I'm concerned about its the ix.

The rabbit hole deepens. The TD350 seems to share a lot of parts with the RD450 in the drive cage department.

I found a photo of the sister part 00HV325 (5x3.5") from a third party site, see below:



and it does have 2x SFF-8087 ports on the back end. It might be an older generation possibly. But it does hint to the existence of backplanes that provide regular SAS ports. But I couldn't find the 8x2.5" model 00HV327, and the upgrade kit for the RD450 that seems to include it (4XF0G45894) shows it having the same unholy PCIe-looking slot on the back:



Not only that, but the photo I found of the lesser AnyRaid cards shows it having only one "slot" of connectivity, which would preclude it from being used with more than one backplane, so you can't simply buy an extra card and use multiple cards:





Doubtful, unfortunately. Servers are high-margin products for vendors, so you aren't likely to see a common backplane outside of rebranded solutions (eg: a vendor that is using a SuperMicro or Dell chassis through their OEM program) - the power cabling I wouldn't count on being universal especially based on historical problems with consumer or enterprise-grade systems using non-ATX pinouts for power supply. In addition, if you get it wrong, you end up letting the Magical Blue Smoke escape from the hardware, and then it definitely won't work. ;)

Unless you can find an 8x2.5" backplane that gives you SFF-8087 or SFF-8643 connectors off the upstream side, the only way this will work in this specific server is via the aforementioned breakout-cable-spaghetti-alfredo and multiple HBAs and/or expander cards.

Side note - Looking at your initial logs it also seems that all of your drives negotiated at 150MB/s.

Your rabbit hole looks as if it could be promising but at this rate I'm looking at a lot of hardware to purchase and two Lenovo proprietary RAID cards sitting on a shelf with no purpose. I'm starting to wonder if a different OS would be a better solution, damn that unholy PCIe-looking slot. Perhaps I should look into unraid as it most likely be a cheaper solution.

 

[HoneyBadger]

While I'm not deeply versed with unRAID specifically, any "software defined storage" like this will want to have direct access to the drives, which typically implies an HBA, so you might not be any further ahead there. (Although a Linux-based OS might have a better-tested LSI MegaRaid driver.)

Let's rewind (quite) a bit and ask a couple key questions:

What is the use case for the hardware (general file services, high-performance DB, VM hosting?)
Your use case will dictate some design decisions here.

What drove the decision of this hardware?
Note that "we already own it, and need to work with what we have" or "budgetary reasons" are both perfectly valid answers.

What drove the decision to use FreeNAS?
User-friendliness of the GUI/UI? Community support strength? ZFS specifically?

 

[T H R E E]

While I'm not deeply versed with unRAID specifically, any "software defined storage" like this will want to have direct access to the drives, which typically implies an HBA, so you might not be any further ahead there. (Although a Linux-based OS might have a better-tested LSI MegaRaid driver.)

Let's rewind (quite) a bit and ask a couple key questions:

What is the use case for the hardware (general file services, high-performance DB, VM hosting?)
Your use case will dictate some design decisions here.

What drove the decision of this hardware?
Note that "we already own it, and need to work with what we have" or "budgetary reasons" are both perfectly valid answers.

What drove the decision to use FreeNAS?
User-friendliness of the GUI/UI? Community support strength? ZFS specifically?

The main use case as I understand it, is for this machine to be a backup server for our other servers and their VMs (those would be a couple windows hyper-v servers, one of which has our file server on it, and a proxmox server) and to host one VM which would be our image deployment server (it being hosted on FreeNAS wasnt set in stone but it was the plan). To kinda bundle the last two questions into one let me provide some background information. This Lenovo TD350 machine use to be our Proxmox server and we had a generic office tower ThinkServer running FreeNAS to back up the Proxmox VMs. We were hoping to switch the OS's these machines ran to take advantage of the numerous amount of drive bays in the TD350 to create a general use backup server that would be capable of backing up more than just Proxmox. FreeNAS was chosen mainly because it was already in use as our backup solution and I believe ZFS was desired in place of RAID by my boss though I imagine what we want done could be done just as well with RAID. Finally a part of it was the UI. FreeNAS' UI seems makes maintaining things easier and being able to monitor everything about the drives and pools/RAIDs is important.