Repurposing a HPE DL80 Gen9 as FreeNAS server

[andrewmoore]

Hi all,

I'm looking at repurposing a HPE DL80 Gen9 server for storage use. The specs are as follows:

Xeon E5-2603v3
32GB ECC DDR4
8x WD Red 3TB
HPE Ethernet 1Gb 4-port 331i Adapter
HPE Smart Array P440 Controller

Now, my main concern is the RAID controller. I've checked and there is an option to enable HBA mode but I'm still concerned about compatibility. I've read that some controllers don't do "true passthrough" so FreeNAS can't access SMART data.

Could anyone shine some light on this, is the P440 go or no go?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

HPE Smart Array P440 Controller

I really like HP hardware but don't have any experience with the P440. From the docs, it does "HBA or RAID mode". That's a good sign. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a discussion about troubles with that model. HP's controllers often use LSI chips but I couldn't find out of this cards uses an LSI chip. If you already have the hardware, I'd roll the dice and give FreeNAS a shot. You'll know pretty quickly if it will work. Even if that card doesn't work, you can get a quality substitute for under $200.

If you do get it working, please let us know. HP Gen9 is still really new and there aren't a lot of data points out there for it and FreeNAS yet.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[jgreco]

Could anyone shine some light on this, is the P440 go or no go?

A quick Google suggests that it is a full RAID controller with cache.

LSI's with cache are NOT suitable for FreeNAS as an HBA (even if the drives appear to be seen), so the appearance of the word "cache" or "battery" or "supercap" is a deal-breaker. And if the P440 isn't an LSI, then it's basically uncharted and would be dependent on the existence of some hypothetical driver that may, but probably does not, exist.

If the P440 is an actual PCIe card, it should be possible to replace it with an HBA and an SFF8087 to SFF8643 cable, if the backplane is an expander, or two cables if not. Not having seen the hardware, it is not something I guarantee. :)

 

[andrewmoore]

I really like HP hardware but don't have any experience with the P440. From the docs, it does "HBA or RAID mode". That's a good sign. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a discussion about troubles with that model. HP's controllers often use LSI chips but I couldn't find out of this cards uses an LSI chip. If you already have the hardware, I'd roll the dice and give FreeNAS a shot. You'll know pretty quickly if it will work. Even if that card doesn't work, you can get a quality substitute for under $200.

If you do get it working, please let us know. HP Gen9 is still really new and there aren't a lot of data points out there for it and FreeNAS yet.

Cheers,
Matt

Thanks, I'll give HBA mode a whirl and report back.

A quick Google suggests that it is a full RAID controller with cache.

LSI's with cache are NOT suitable for FreeNAS as an HBA (even if the drives appear to be seen), so the appearance of the word "cache" or "battery" or "supercap" is a deal-breaker. And if the P440 isn't an LSI, then it's basically uncharted and would be dependent on the existence of some hypothetical driver that may, but probably does not, exist.

If the P440 is an actual PCIe card, it should be possible to replace it with an HBA and an SFF8087 to SFF8643 cable, if the backplane is an expander, or two cables if not. Not having seen the hardware, it is not something I guarantee. :)

It is a full RAID controller, and that's how I've been using it up until now. However it does have a HBA mode option in the SSA so it 'may' work. Often HBA mode isn't true passthrough (pseudo individual RAID0) which is why I'm posing the question.

 

[jgreco]

Thanks, I'll give HBA mode a whirl and report back.


It is a full RAID controller, and that's how I've been using it up until now. However it does have a HBA mode option in the SSA so it 'may' work. Often HBA mode isn't true passthrough (pseudo individual RAID0) which is why I'm posing the question.

No. I'm *TELLING* you that the LSI silicon does NOT do this and there is no chance it 'may' work.

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

If our Resident Grinch says it won't work, take his word for it, Andrew. Not worth your time. Grab a ZFS-approved HBA for cheap then eBay the expensive card. You'll come out ahead on time and money.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[jgreco]

And just to expand upon that (kinda busy here today)... the RAID controllers are all based on MFI firmware, which is what they developed to do serious RAID management. This means you have to speak to the card via MFI, and MFI is known to be a bit flaky with FreeBSD, plus it cuts out all the direct access to the drives.

Devices such as the M1015, H310, 9211-8i, etc., can be downgraded from their basic-RAID functionality. They have an onboard CPU and by default they speak MFI, because the onboard CPU is used to manage the system as a low end RAID controller, without caching or anything fancy. However, you can replace the firmware on these with "IT" mode firmware, which wipes out the RAID capabilities and causes the thing to just pass communications back and forth to the drives directly.

We know there's no such capability for the higher end cards. There is no alternative firmware. There's no reason it couldn't be written, but it hasn't, and even if it had, it would have a different set of bugs and problems than the MPS firmware for the 2008-based cards, so you still wouldn't want to use it.

Basically it comes down to the fact that we know there are many millions of hours runtime on the P20 firmware for FreeNAS with the 2008 cards, and that it works correctly for all the common use cases. Anything else, it might "work" and it might seem to "be stable", but who knows, do you really want to be the test case?

 

[jgreco]

No. I'm *TELLING* you that the LSI silicon does NOT do this and there is no chance it 'may' work.

Geez... try not to sound so snippy in the future.

 

[andrewmoore]

Thanks all.

Another quick question. The motherboard has a B140i controller which can be put into SATA AHCI mode (not fake-RAID).

I think I already know the answer... but will this work? I'm just trying to avoid buying a H240 as they are fairly expensive. The cards in the recommended hardware list are cheaper but I have a feeling they will make the HP fans go mad as they aren't approved.

 

[tvsjr]

As long as it presents the drives directly to the operating system as standard SATA drives, it should work just fine. That said, any of the usual LSI cards shouldn't cause the HP fans to go mad... the whole purpose of a bus like PCIe is to allow many different types of devices from many different manufacturers to work in a system. I don't think I've ever heard of an instance where installing a card has caused the fans to go nuts, unless the card has a problem.

 

[jgreco]

Thanks all.

Another quick question. The motherboard has a B140i controller which can be put into SATA AHCI mode (not fake-RAID).

I think I already know the answer... but will this work? I'm just trying to avoid buying a H240 as they are fairly expensive. The cards in the recommended hardware list are cheaper but I have a feeling they will make the HP fans go mad as they aren't approved.

Apologies for the slow reply. Based on

https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04655546

it mentions that a proprietary HP driver is required for the card, so my no-direct-experience opinion is that it is highly unlikely to work, but it wouldn't hurt to try.