BUILD Proposed low-energy NAS

[Glorious1]

I store movie files and use them in XBMC/Kodi. As a storage solution, I first got this DatOptic enclosure and directly attached it to the Mac mini running XBMC. It's great in many ways and I LOVE the drive bays, but it really hasn't behaved as I would like. The drives spinning up and down wreak havoc trying to watch movies. When I use the little program "Keep Drive Spinning", then they're going 24/7, unless I eject the drives remotely, which is a pain, and shut the enclosure down. And it's difficult to manage and use for other storage needs.

So now I'm thinking of going the NAS route instead, and building my own. This is my first build of any kind, so I would appreciate any comments or suggestions on the plan. Things I'm looking for:
-- Capacity for 6-8 drives
-- Don't care about speed that much, as long as it can serve video
-- Energy efficiency
-- Use as a Time Machine backup for a few mac computers
-- Suitable hardware for FreeNAS
-- mini-ITX form factor should be big enough, but if someone knows of a bigger case that has 6-8 trayless, hot-swap bays like the DatOptic, I would consider that.

Case: Lian Li PC-Q25 It has a backplane for 5 drives, space for a few more, and reportedly is good at keeping cool. Actually, I thought about repurposing my DatOptic case instead of selling that unit, but there is no motherboard mounting system and building that in is a bit more than I want to get into. $95

Motherboard/CPU: ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard is a popular one for NAS systems. It has a low-power quad-core Intel Atom processor (there is also a version with the 8-core Atom, but for purely servering that probably isn't necessary), tons of SATA ports, Intel LAN controller which apparently is needed, IPMI for remotely setting it up, and other good features. Downside is only 2 USB2 ports, but I can live with that. $280

RAM: This is where I'm unsure. I understand FreeNAS likes a lot of RAM, but I don't really care about maximizing speed so much. So 8 GB may be enough. I won't ask about ECC! Right now I'm thinking of Crucial, 2x 4 GB ECC, 1.35 volt for about $114.

Power supply: Silverstone ST45SF-G 450 W SFX12: This is an efficient (80 plus Gold certified), small-form factor supply. The latter is important for this case as I have read. 450 watts should be plenty and be around the 50% load where efficiency and quiet are maximized. I just don't know about what cables come with it, and how many SATA drives I can plug into. The case has a backplane with 3 molex connectors for powering 5 of the drives, the others would need their own SATA power connectors. $91

Total cost would be about $580, not counting drives. I would appreciate any suggestions or observations.

 

[BigDave]

For 6 to 8 drives, case is small, has only two fans. IMHO it will be too hot!
For 6 to 8 drives, motherboard has only 6 SATA ports on the chipset (C2550) controller.
The other remaining 6 SATA ports are on the Marvell controller and there
has been issues. Stick with only 6 drives (on the chipset ports) and you're golden:)
More RAM is better! >$60 more

 

[Glorious1]

Thanks for the reply BigDave. That sounds like good advice. More RAM, and stick with 6 drives or go to a bigger case.
I'd be willing to go to a bigger case if I could figure out 2 things:
1. How can I build/where can I buy a case that has ~8 of these nice trayless hot-swap bays like the DatOptic (see below)? Each tray even has two little fans.
2. Are there motherboards that have more than 6 SATA ports on the main Intel controller that would be more reliable, or would that require adding a PCIe card?

 

[BigDave]

Hot swap is not something you need with FreeNas, the only time you would change a drive out
is when you have one go bad! This will be unlikely if you buy quality drives and keep the drive's
temps below 40c at all times. I have a Fractal Design R4 case with four fans in it, it will hold 6!
See this post for a look at my server. The side panels have sound dampening material, for
as many fans as I have, it is not that noisey. I could slow the speeds and get the decibles down,
but I'm much more concerned about heat related drive failure.
With the 4 or 6 TB drives available now, I don't see why you would need more than 6 of them
Keep in mind if you go with bigger case, your chosen PS would not work
due to shorter cables of that model.

 

[Fraoch]

I'm using this:

http://www.startech.com/HDD/Mobile-Racks/4-Drive-Tray-Less-SATA-Hot-Swap-Enclosure~HSB430SATBK

It's (only) 4-bay hotswap and uses 3 X 5.25" external slots. It's ventilated and has two fans. You'd probably have to get a larger enclosure to get 3 X 5.25" slots. To get 8 hotswap slots you'd need 6 X 5.25" slots, that's very hard to find although I remember seeing a large case or two where the entire front was 5.25" slots.

A much better solution might be this:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=452&area=en

8 hot-swappable bays in a mini-ITX enclosure, though you would have to get a hard-to-find SFX power supply.

I'm not so sure I should have gone with hotswap, but it does give drives more ventilation and it just looks more server-y.;) The requirement for 3 X 5.25" slots does limit the case choices for me and the case I went with is way too big and noisy.

 

[Ericloewe]

The best option for lots of drives is the X10SL7-F (or equivalent Haswell-EP boards, for larger systems). It is microATX instead of miniITX, though.

There's also an ASRock board that takes a Haswell processor, four DIMMs, has an LSI SAS 2308 controller and is extendedITX (not true miniITX, though).

 

[Glorious1]

Thanks for all your kind replies.

As for the need for hot-swap, trayless bays, I can't say much, other than I really like them. Actually, and this is why I'm looking at so many drives, my hope is that I can operate FreeNAS on half the drives, and use the other half as simple backup. I don't know if that's even feasible in FreeNAS. But anyway it could makes sense to have at least some of the drives be swappable to store backups elsewhere. A third, minor reason is less wires running around since those backplanes don't seem to require a power line to each drive.

I did find a handful of full-size ATX cases that Newegg says have 6 external 5.25 bays, though the photos don't confirm that in all cases, and a lot of them are pretty ghastly looking:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0007583 600006304 600030553&IsNodeId=1&name=6
Anyway, can I assume that I could fasten two of those 4in3 trayless bays like Fraoch pointed to into such a case?

As for the motherboard, the full size case would open the opportunity of using a larger motherboard like the one Ericloewe suggested, X10SL7-F. Please help me out of my ignorance here - the specs it has 6 SATA ports and 8 SAS2 ports. Looking at the picture of the board, the group of 8 also look like SATA ports. Is some kind of adapter or conversion needed to use SATA drives on the SAS2 ports?

BigDave, the tip about cables on the SFX power supply I had selected being to short for big cases is excellent info that I would never have anticipated - thanks!

 

[Ericloewe]

Thanks for all your kind replies.

As for the need for hot-swap, trayless bays, I can't say much, other than I really like them. Actually, and this is why I'm looking at so many drives, my hope is that I can operate FreeNAS on half the drives, and use the other half as simple backup. I don't know if that's even feasible in FreeNAS. But anyway it could makes sense to have at least some of the drives be swappable to store backups elsewhere. A third, minor reason is less wires running around since those backplanes don't seem to require a power line to each drive.

I did find a handful of full-size ATX cases that Newegg says have 6 external 5.25 bays, though the photos don't confirm that in all cases, and a lot of them are pretty ghastly looking:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007583 600006304 600030553&IsNodeId=1&name=6
Anyway, can I assume that I could fasten two of those 4in3 trayless bays like Fraoch pointed to into such a case?

As for the motherboard, the full size case would open the opportunity of using a larger motherboard like the one Ericloewe suggested, X10SL7-F. Please help me out of my ignorance here - the specs it has 6 SATA ports and 8 SAS2 ports. Looking at the picture of the board, the group of 8 also look like SATA ports. Is some kind of adapter or conversion needed to use SATA drives on the SAS2 ports?

BigDave, the tip about cables on the SFX power supply I had selected being to short for big cases is excellent info that I would never have anticipated - thanks!

The SAS ports will work perfectly with SATA drives, but you get all the advantages of SAS if you use SAS hardware (expanders, for one). The controller just needs to be flashed to P16 IT mode.

 

[ian351c]

As for the Startech 4-in-3 hot swap cages, I had a pair of these. Those tiny fans don't move much air, and they die pretty quickly when on 24x7. At least in my experience... I ended up replacing them with these Icy Dock cages that have larger fans. Just my $0.02.

One thing to watch out for in those tower cases is how the 5.25 drive bays are constructed. Sometimes they have "screwless" setups or small rails in every bay that make it impossible to mount the 4-in-3 cages without major surgery to the case. I have an ancient CoolerMaster 12-bay case that I used to use for stuff like this, though it looks like they're no longer in the "serious server" business.

 

[Glorious1]

The SAS ports will work perfectly with SATA drives, but you get all the advantages of SAS if you use SAS hardware (expanders, for one). The controller just needs to be flashed to P16 IT mode.

Guess I still have a lot to learn about this stuff If I go with that X10SL7-F, which has an LGA 1150 socket, could you recommend a low-power compatible CPU that preferably wouldn't need its own fan? Do those CPUs come with heat sinks and/or fans or whatever they need in normal situations?

One thing to watch out for in those tower cases is how the 5.25 drive bays are constructed. Sometimes they have "screwless" setups or small rails in every bay that make it impossible to mount the 4-in-3 cages without major surgery to the case.

Right, you're confirming another thing I was worried about. Well, I'll have to see if I can find an online retailer that will answer those kinds of questions.

 

[Ericloewe]

Guess I still have a lot to learn about this stuff If I go with that X10SL7-F, which has an LGA 1150 socket, could you recommend a low-power compatible CPU that preferably wouldn't need its own fan? Do those CPUs come with heat sinks and/or fans or whatever they need in normal situations?


Right, you're confirming another thing I was worried about. Well, I'll have to see if I can find an online retailer that will answer those kinds of questions.

Any LGA1150 i3 or Xeon is enough for basic file sharing. None of them are appropriate for fanless cooling, but no processor is these days. You'll need *some* fans, always.
Retail packages include heatsink+fan for the CPU.

 

[Fraoch]

As for the Startech 4-in-3 hot swap cages, I had a pair of these. Those tiny fans don't move much air, and they die pretty quickly when on 24x7. At least in my experience... I ended up replacing them with these Icy Dock cages that have larger fans. Just my $0.02.

Very nice hotswap bay, and actually costs less than the StarTech one! I'll keep it in mind should my StarTech bite the dust. Those fans are tiny indeed. I have two Noctua fans to replace them, but unfortunately the supplied fans are not 3-pin or 4-pin, they'd have to be installed with some soldering. A single 80 mm fan would be much better, though it looks to be a non-standard depth.

Another advantage with the Icy Dock device is that 2 X 4-pin Molex powers all 4 drives. On the StartTech, each drive requires its own Molex (not SATA) power line. 4 X Molex connectors are hard to find in power supplies these days, even high-end ones.

Icy Dock also have a line of hotswap bays that use 3 X SATA power connectors and replaceable fans, the 4-drive MB154 with 80 mm fan and the 5-drive MB155 with a 92 mm fan and fan speed setting by jumper.

@Glorious1 , that Silverstone DS380 case looks like exactly what you're looking for. 8 hotswap slots built-in, mini-ITX, uses an SFX power supply which I now see is the one you were considering anyway.

 

[Ericloewe]

Very nice hotswap bay, and actually costs less than the StarTech one! I'll keep it in mind should my StarTech bite the dust. Those fans are tiny indeed. I have two Noctua fans to replace them, but unfortunately the supplied fans are not 3-pin or 4-pin, they'd have to be installed with some soldering. A single 80 mm fan would be much better, though it looks to be a non-standard depth.

Another advantage with the Icy Dock device is that 2 X 4-pin Molex powers all 4 drives. On the StartTech, each drive requires its own Molex (not SATA) power line. 4 X Molex connectors are hard to find in power supplies these days, even high-end ones.

@Glorious1 , that Silverstone DS380 case looks like exactly what you're looking for. 8 hotswap slots built-in, mini-ITX, uses an SFX power supply which I now see is the one you were considering anyway.

There are several Icy Dock models. Mine have 2/3 pin fans.

 

[Glorious1]

@Glorious1 , that Silverstone DS380 case looks like exactly what you're looking for. 8 hotswap slots built-in, mini-ITX, uses an SFX power supply which I now see is the one you were considering anyway.

Yes, that is a case I had strongly considered, but, if I understand correctly, the problem with the mini-ITX form factor when you want 8 drives is that there is no suitable motherboard that has more than 6 reliable SATA ports. The board I originally was planning for has additional ports, but on a Marvell controller which I'm told, and have read, doesn't always work for people.

... I ended up replacing them with these Icy Dock cages that have larger fans.

I see they also have these trayless versions - they also only require two power lines per 4 drives but they are 15-pin power connectors

 

[Glorious1]

Hey wait a minute, what about this mini-ITX board:
ASRock E3C224D4I-14S Extended mini ITX Server Motherboard LGA 1150 Intel C224 DDR3 1600/1333

In addition to 4 x SATA3 (from a mini-SAS connector) and 2 x SATA2 by Intel C224, it has an LSI2308 chip like the Supermicro board, with two mini SAS connectors. It comes with two cables to run 8 SATA drives from the mini-SAS ports.
It has Intel LAN, IPMI, lots of USB ports and headers, supports ECC, etc.

What's not to love about this board? So maybe a mini-ITX board isn't out of the question?

Wait a tick - now I see it is EXTENDED mini-ITX, so a unique size, won't fit in the mini-ITX cases I guess? What would it fit? :(

 

[Fraoch]

I see they also have these trayless versions - they also only require two power lines per 4 drives but they are 15-pin power connectors

The average power supply these days will have more 15-pin SATA power connectors than 4-pin Molex. Plus they're easier to work with.

However that particular unit does not get good reviews. This one does:

http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=155

It's not trayless but the drives are held more securely. Plus it uses a 92 mm fan rather than 80 mm, a little bit more cooling with a little bit less noise. I'm just trying to figure out if it can accommodate a 2.5" SSD without an adapter (one reviewer says it does, but I don't see how).

Wait a tick - now I see it is EXTENDED mini-ITX, so a unique size, won't fit in the mini-ITX cases I guess? What would it fit?

Yes that's the main problem with this non-standard "extended" mini-ITX. It would not fit in mini-ITX cases. I'm guessing it would fit in micro-ATX or larger cases.

 

[sremick]

Wait a tick - now I see it is EXTENDED mini-ITX, so a unique size, won't fit in the mini-ITX cases I guess? What would it fit? :(

Damned if I know. I looked at the board and then searched all over for a decent case. Couldn't find any, so I gave up.

 

[Fraoch]

I believe it overhangs the mini-ITX footprint on one side, so it would not fit a mini-ITX case unless the case had a bit more room for the motherboard (few do). However, micro-ATX is quite a bit bigger than mini-ITX, there should be enough room in all micro-ATX cases and anything larger.

You won't find any "extended mini-ITX" cases, this is not a standard size. I believe this is the only motherboard like this.

 

[Tywin]

Damned if I know. I looked at the board and then searched all over for a decent case. Couldn't find any, so I gave up.

It's pretty much custom-made for an ASRock Rack in-house 1U design:

http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=1U12L2SW-14S

To get a feel for the size: the four DIMMs start at the "top" end of the backplane, so it is ~ 4 DIMMs longer in that direction than a typical mITX board.

 

[Glorious1]

Thanks, yes, I was just finding that thread about the rack unit for that board. It's about 4.3 cm (1.7 in) taller than a mini-ITX. I found where some people measured the Lian Li PC-Q25 and found there was about 5 cm extra room, so thought it would fit. PC-Q25 dimensions:
(W) 199mm
(H) 280mm
(D) 366mm

Lian Li just announced an updated version of that case, named the PC-Q26, surprisingly enough. It is 39.5 cm tall. I'm not qualified to judge, but I would guess this will be a popular case for compact servers of the 6-10 drive size. It has 10 3.5" bays, 2 of them hot swap, plus 1 2.5" slot. There was some Facebook chatter about that board fitting in that case but no confirmation. I've emailed Lian Li to ask them. PC-Q26 dimensions:
(W)200mm
(H)395mm
(D)410mm

Although these are both billed as mini-ITX cases, obviously the new one is a lot bigger, especially in height. If I understand correctly, that is the dimension that the ASRock E3C224D4I-14S Extended mini ITX "extends" in.