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Proper Power Supply Sizing Guidance

Constantin

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It can be surprising just how much power you can pass through the right kind of conductor - see the allegro ACS71240 which allows measurements of up to 50 amperes of current to flow through just 2 SOIC legs - at something close to room temperature. Presumably those leads are silver but I’d design the board around them very carefully.

It must be quite a challenge designing power supplies for the general market since some folk want to power high current CPUs as well as GPUs, some want to power a bunch of drives, etc. Somehow all those busses must be fed and some PSUs are remarkable engineering feats re: efficiency, modularity, heat management, etc..

I suppose Supermicros line of rack server PSUs might be designed to be more “storage-oriented” than general-purpose PSUs made for the rest of the market? They sure like them beefy.
 

jgreco

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I suppose Supermicros line of rack server PSUs might be designed to be more “storage-oriented” than general-purpose PSUs made for the rest of the market? They sure like them beefy.

And redundant. One of the things is that you can lean on the redundancy to get you over the hump, but you need to understand that this also means you shouldn't do a cold start if one of your redundant power circuits is dead, because you will (wait for it, wait for it, everyone knows what's coming) overstress your remaining PSU.

Well of course that depends on a bunch of stuff, and it can be built not to be a problem, which is the real goal.
 

Stilez

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I've seen about 1,000 threads like this one where people decide that they can power a dozen hard drives off a 360 watt supply. DO NOT DO THIS.

I've seen another 1,000 threads where people decide to buy the cheapest power supply that they can find. DO NOT DO THIS.

Your NAS lives or dies by its power supply. In building your NAS, you will be putting together a server platform that costs at a minimum many hundreds of dollars, and then putting hundreds or even thousands of dollars of hard drives into it. If your power supply blows, it could potentially ruin some or all of your expensive gear. Do you really want to trust a $16 power supply ?


Meta-Issues To Consider

You've probably come to FreeNAS for its awesome data protection and storage resiliency features. You've hopefully learned that you want server-grade gear, and that you want ECC memory, and that you want redundancy in your storage system. But another question you should ask yourself, how long do you want your storage system to last? Most users are looking to create a storage platform that won't be obsolete next year, and in fact usually want it to last as long as it can.

Your power supply ends up being one of the most complicated bits of electrical engineering in your system. You want to pick a power supply that has high quality components, because a failure of a component could mean anything from power loss to voltage sag to high voltage being fed through to your low voltage computer parts. These are very bad things!

Further, because we want the power supply to work as well in five (or even ten) years as it does today, we have to consider that as components age, their ability to perform slowly degrades. This degradation is made worse if a component is stressed out to near (or past) its specification. In the world of electronics, we typically cope with this using a principle known as derating. This simply means that, for example, if you needed a supply that can deliver 300 watts, you get a 400 watt supply. A typical high quality modern power supply delivers a fairly consistent level of efficiency when loaded between 20%-80% of its rated capacity, so you're not "saving lots of power" by getting a 300 watt supply for a 300 watt load. The rule of thumb in the shop here is that a power supply should never be pushed beyond 80% of its rated capacity.


The Importance of Clean Power

It is important to have a clean source of power, such as that supplied by a UPS. Under normal circumstances, your utility probably provides a fairly clean power, but under certain circumstances, such as a tree branch falling on the feeder, you may experience a brownout, followed by an autorecloser shutting off and then restoring the power to the line (often several times). Each time power returns, you get a significant amount of cruft on the line, from the inrush brownout caused by motors starting (and possibly stalling), etc. Now, you might have "figured" that you can start 12 drives and a Xeon on a 500W PSU, but that's on a normal utility supply. When that power is fluctuating rapidly in an adverse situation, can the PSU still prevail? You definitely want to avoid answering that question. Get a quality UPS as an integral part of your power supply solution.


Calculating How Much Power You Need

The big thing that most people miss when figuring power consumption is drive spinup current. Most drives take up to about 2.1 amps of additional current on the 12 volt rail to start the platters spinning - that's 25 watts per drive. This is in addition to the eight watts that the drive electronics may be consuming. Do note that some drives use less power, and some use more.



I do not particularly like to undercalculate power requirements, because that may lead to voltage sag, which then leads to equipment failure. Some current drives require a lower amount of spinup current (~1.7A) but I encourage you to contemplate that drives might be replaced or upgraded. Running things right on the edge is a bad idea. If you are building a system with more than four drives, I encourage you to look at the specifications for your drives, but still suggest that you want to reserve about 35 watts for each drive.

When spinning up a large fleet of drives (12+), the use of a chassis with a redundant power supply gives you a large extra safety margin. I will note, however, that such an enclosure should still be sized so that it can operate on a single supply.

So there are three things that should ideally be calculated to size your power supply:

1) Total potential watts
2) Total potential 12V amps
3) Average idle watts

The total potential watts is the sum total of all your drives (~35 watts each), ~25 watts for a mainboard, look at the TDP of your CPU for a poor estimation of the peak watts there (~80?), ~6 watts per stick of memory, ~10 watts per LSI 8 port HBA, and ~15-30 watts per fan. Honestly it can be a fair amount of work to come up with a good number, take some time and look at data sheets.

The total potential 12V amps is important because you want to make sure the supply can provide it, and you want to be aware of any other issues, such as if the supply has dual rails.

But also important is the average idle watts. Unlike the calculations above, instead you take the measured or estimated idle watts. For a hard drive, that's often about 6 watts. A modern CPU, might only be 10 watts. Components like the mainboard, memory, and HBA tend to be nearly fixed in their consumption. Fans are a pain in the rear. Just try to see what you can figure out.

Now, look at your total potential watts. It is probably a big number. Multiply that by 1.25, and that's your target size for a power supply.

Multiply that number by 0.20. If the result is less than your average idle watts, you have a power supply size that's going to be in the efficiency sweet spot for a high quality PSU.

Force fitting that into an available PSU is of course a little fun. You are encouraged to go down a shade or up a tier as needed in order to get the right PSU size.


Awww, Do I Have To?

No, you don't. But you really should. However, there are ways to control the amount of load thrown at a PSU. For a NAS, since the thing that normally dominates the calculation is the spinup current for the drives, there are two things:

1) Use a disk with a lower spinup current. I don't like this method, because invariably someone will replace a drive with a higher current unit.

2) Carefully design your systems to use staggered spinup. This is fraught with peril but if you are sufficiently disciplined, can work. On the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this sticky in that case.

The third option:

3) Random chance suggests that drives are not actually LIKELY to all experience a surge inrush at the exact same moment of time. You can tempt fate.

It isn't clear that there's much value to be had in relying on any of these strategies, unless you are driving so many disks that you can't get a sufficiently large PSU.


Power Supply Efficiency/Cost

There's a school of thought that wants to minimize the size of a PSU and instead rely on the manufacturer's competence and build quality. You CAN do this. I think it a fool's errand, but, yes, you can.

The last time I debated this with a supporter of this strategy, I ran some numbers. It turns out that if you run a 60W load on a SeaSonic G-360, efficiency is 86%, and watts consumed at the wall are 70W. If you run the same 60W load on a SeaSonic G-550, efficiency is 83%, and watts consumed at the wall are 72W. That's a two watt difference to move up to a power supply that supplies 50% more power. At a price of 14c/kWh, the additional electrical cost is about $12... over the next five years.

I am totally willing to pay $2 per year more in electricity for a larger supply that is more suitably sized and less likely to ruin my $1000+ NAS boxes. Trying to microsize your PSU is a game for chumps.


Forum Favorite PSU

We don't have much call for non-rackmount gear here in the shop, and I normally don't care to suggest things we don't have a lot of experience with. However, the SeaSonic G-series (360, 450, 550, 650, 750) is a highly respected PSU line that is well-loved by PC builders all around, with high quality components, tight voltage regulation, and a five year warranty. It is also the #1 choice here on the forums.

The G360 is not modular. The others are.

2017-11: Apparently Seasonic has discontinued the G in favor of the FOCUS (thanks @Ericloewe / @gamedude9742 ) but as I haven't seen many competent opinions regarding the quality of the newer PSU, this is presented as a FYI rather than a recommendation.


TL; DR - Precalculated Guesses for the Lazy Geek

Okay, so you don't want to mess with all that crap. You just want to know what to buy! The following makes an assumption of a fan for every four drives and a reasonable amount of memory, and an HBA for more than 4 drives. These are ballpark numbers. Guesses based on back-of-a-napkin math. You should do your own homework. And yes of course you're not likely to hit those peak numbers except perhaps during bootup, but they're still a sane thing to shoot for.

1) For an Avoton C2550/C2750 (18-35W board, 12W memory):
  • 1-2 Drives: 132W peak, 46W idle -> SeaSonic G-360
  • 3-4 Drives: 202W peak, 71W idle -> SeaSonic G-360
  • 5-6 Drives: 297W peak, 118W idle -> SeaSonic G-450
  • 7-8 Drives: 367W peak, 134W idle -> SeaSonic G-450
  • 9-10 Drives: 437W peak, 150W idle -> SeaSonic G-550
  • 11-12 Drives: 507W peak, 166W idle -> SeaSonic G-650 or X-650
2) For an E3-1230v3 (32-98W board+CPU, 12W memory):
  • 1-2 Drives: 195W peak, 75W idle -> SeaSonic G-360
  • 3-4 Drives: 265W peak, 91W idle -> SeaSonic G-360
  • 5-6 Drives: 360W peak, 132W idle -> SeaSonic G-450
  • 7-8 Drives: 430W peak, 148W idle -> SeaSonic G-550
  • 9-10 Drives: 510W peak, 174W idle -> SeaSonic G-650 or X-650
  • 11-12 Drives: 585W peak, 195W idle -> SeaSonic G-750 or X-750
3) For an E5-1620v3 (speculative: 70-210W board+CPU, 24W memory):
  • 1-2 Drives: 319W peak, 125W idle -> SeaSonic G-450
  • 3-4 Drives: 389W peak, 141W idle -> SeaSonic G-550
  • 5-6 Drives: 484W peak, 182W idle -> SeaSonic G-650 or X-650
  • 7-8 Drives: 554W peak, 198W idle -> SeaSonic G-750 or X-750
  • 9-10 Drives: 639W peak, 229W idle -> SeaSonic X-850
  • 11-12 Drives: 709W peak, 245W idle -> SeaSonic X-850 or X-1050
I'd like to recommend some edits and info: two PSU ranges, some resources and thoughts, and a crucial link

EVGA Supernova series, the ones made by SuperFlower, have consistently had amazingly good reviews for line stability (ripple etc) and build quality for many years. I'd swear by them, more than Seasonic, these days. 10 year guarantee as well. For budget use, Corsair make some decent cheap models.

jonnyguru.com is a key resource for PSUs, one of the best PSU testers I know of. TechPowerUp isn't bad either, but the takeaway is, some reviewers like JG will dismantle the PSU, check the soldering, identify the chips, and load/heat handling, look at transients, and generally test *carefully*. When you think you have a PSU candidate, check it out on that kind of site. Worth a link.

You mention voltage and rails, this could be worth expanding on, along with how much power it needs to handle, on 12 and 5v.

Most PSUs are configured for desktop use, where a high power use will relate to CPU/GPU, not HDDs. HDDs have high transient power draws. That also has implications for single vs. multiple rail design, and for number, length, and wire gauge in the connectors. Running a significant number of disks, this is a real issue to consider. You might find this thread a useful resource, where I was looking at a PSU for my NAS and a number of forum users contributed knowledge about spinup power draw, manufacturer spec sheets, parallel PSU use, and PSU designs: https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/dual-psu-or-bigger-psu.60962
 
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Constantin

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You want to edit that post @Stilez, since the link you posted takes the user to some sort of get-rich-quick scam site.

I believe you meant to take them to jonnyguru.com. That site is interesting but the last power supply review was done in 2019?
 
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Stilez

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DanP.

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Hi,

I am about to build my first FreeNAS / TrueNAS and I am looking for some PSU advice.
I've got these components already:
  • Supermicro X9SCM-F
  • Intel Xeon E3 1230v2
  • 32 GB ECC 1600 RAM
  • 6 x 6TB WD Red Plus
Case, PSU, Boot SSD (2x) and SAS controller (1x or 2x) still to buy.
I am planning to use only 6 drives (1vdev) for now, but maybe get another 6 drives next year.

Thanks to the excellent guide I did some calculations for the PSU. The calculations also include 2 Boot SSDs, Fans, HBA SAS controller. This is what I came up with:
NAS-PSU-calc.png


Is 750W enough? Or should I calculate more generous?
Unfortunately the Seasonic Focus PX 750 (80 Plus Platinum) are hard to get in Germany right now.
Seasonic Prime GX 850 (80 Plus Gold) would be an available alternative.

Thanks
 

ChrisRJ

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When I was using parallel SCSI drives in the late 1990s, they usually had a jumper to prevent automatic spin-up. So the SCSI host adapter would trigger the spin-up one by one. That way I ran five drives on a 250 W power supply without issues. I would hope that servers/SAS back planes have something similar in place today. Otherwise, how do you a handle cases where 36 or more drives (60 is the biggest number I have seen) are in a 4U enclosure?
 

Constantin

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.... very large, and sometimes dual redundant PSUs, each offering 2kW+ capacities. For a 60 drive rig, the instantaneous demand from the drives alone could easily top 2kW. Stagger the pool and peak demand may drop in half. Depends on the drives (He vs Air, 3.5” vs 2.5”, etc).

As you and @jgreco have pointed out, one cannot rely by default on staggered spin ups.... even if every sensible setup has them set that way to go easy on the PSU as well as the circuit breaker.
 
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jgreco

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When I was using parallel SCSI drives in the late 1990s, they usually had a jumper to prevent automatic spin-up. So the SCSI host adapter would trigger the spin-up one by one. That way I ran five drives on a 250 W power supply without issues. I would hope that servers/SAS back planes have something similar in place today.

USUALLY doesn't work that way these days.

In pursuit of the ability to create "green" computing, drives have been gifted with the ability to spin themselves down, or to be commanded to spin down, until traffic arrives.

The problem is that an HBA is allowed to spam commands to lots of drives simultaneously, such as when ZFS is trying to access a wide RAIDZ3. Because it knows the LBA's that it needs to access, it will issue those read commands in parallel to all the involved drives, and if you have a 12-disk vdev, this single read can cause 12 drives to spin up simultaneously.

Otherwise, how do you a handle cases where 36 or more drives (60 is the biggest number I have seen) are in a 4U enclosure?

In general, even if you manage to issue spinup commands to a bunch of drives in parallel, you tend to be saved by the fact that the drives do not hit the EXACT same time for their peak spinup load. But as @Constantin mentions, primarily large systems rely on this through the use of beefy PSU's, and then making them redundant.
 

DanP.

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Messages
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Hi,

I am about to build my first FreeNAS / TrueNAS and I am looking for some PSU advice.
I've got these components already:
  • Supermicro X9SCM-F
  • Intel Xeon E3 1230v2
  • 32 GB ECC 1600 RAM
  • 6 x 6TB WD Red Plus
Case, PSU, Boot SSD (2x) and SAS controller (1x or 2x) still to buy.
I am planning to use only 6 drives (1vdev) for now, but maybe get another 6 drives next year.

Thanks to the excellent guide I did some calculations for the PSU. The calculations also include 2 Boot SSDs, Fans, HBA SAS controller. This is what I came up with:
View attachment 45492

Is 750W enough? Or should I calculate more generous?
Unfortunately the Seasonic Focus PX 750 (80 Plus Platinum) are hard to get in Germany right now.
Seasonic Prime GX 850 (80 Plus Gold) would be an available alternative.

Thanks

Hi again,

I will order my PSU today.
Do you think 750W is a good calculation for a Supermicro X9SCM-F, Intel Xeon E3 1230v2, 32 GB ECC 1600 RAM and 12 x 6TB WD Red Plus?
Or would you go with 850W for possible future upgrades?

Cheers
 

jgreco

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750 is what the first post suggests for such a setup. If you are planning to expand later, then you probably want to give some thought as to what sort of expansion that might be.
 

rvassar

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USUALLY doesn't work that way these days.
(snip)
In general, even if you manage to issue spinup commands to a bunch of drives in parallel, you tend to be saved by the fact that the drives do not hit the EXACT same time for their peak spinup load. But as @Constantin mentions, primarily large systems rely on this through the use of beefy PSU's, and then making them redundant.

Keep in mind, the larger systems have more complicated backplanes and power delivery. The current line of Intel and AMD kits I'm familiar with will provide a single rail of +12v at absurd amperage to hot-swap card edge finger connectors as much as 3 or 4 cm wide. They also provide some trivial amount of -12v, and other common voltages as well, but those are mostly for the always-live electronics, IPMI, etc... You can make a good argument that a large portion of the PSU circuitry is actually onboard the motherboard. The disk backplanes connect to dedicated ports on the motherboard, and pass both power and i2c. Even the simple non-expander backplanes have CPLD's reporting back to the motherboard over i2c all kinds of data. Everything from power draw, temperature, slot occupancy, etc... That CPLD can enforce it's own spin-up cadence based on available power.
 

Constantin

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You could also use a power meter and see on the outside just what your margin is during startup, access, and idle. If there is a huge margin, then you may be safe sticking with the smaller psu. For example, my PSU is rated at 600Watts yet its plug load never cracks 150W.

however, and this is important, just because a PSU is rated for a lot of watts in aggregate, it does not tell you if the PSU is adequate at the specific voltage bus level. The PSU delivers 12V, 5V, 3.3V etc. and if any of those busses are brought to their knees, your CPU will likely falter also.

This is my main beef with PSU OEMs, they generally do not specify how many watts by outlet and voltage are permissible. That’s the kind of information that nerds like I like to peruse to verify in advance that a PSU will be able to handle its intended loads.... especially in the context of HDDs not having the same power profiles / needs as graphics cards and CPUs, which is the much larger market the PSU OEMs are generally trying to please. That said, planning is not helped by disk OEMs not publishing peak 5VDC and 12VDC power needs either. I just presume that all the power draw during startup is on the 12VDC bus.

Lastly, please consider that your power meter may not capture peak loads adequately due to smoothing filters. Instantaneous loads really matter and even something as banal as a hot swap may upset the teakettle.
 

Niels80

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I need a little advice on the power consumption of case fans. In the advice of jgreco he uses an average of 15 to 30 watts per fan. If I'm checken the specs of the fractal desing silent 120mm, they only consume 1 watt. Also the Nuctua NF-A14 is on it's max 1,56 according to the specs.

Are these fans so much more efficiënt then the ones about about 5 years ago?
 

Ericloewe

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No, mostly just less powerful. Also, keep in mind that you need to worry about the transient when they're turned on.
 

Constantin

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The good news is that transients due to fans typically only happen once - when the system starts. From then on, the fan should run continuously unless you have a bad script / IPMI setting. Your appetite for risk should hence dictate whether or not to count fan transients.

in order to come up with a general calculator, jgreco likely went with the biggest fan loads we could encounter. Fans that deal with very high static pressures such as the stuff found in rack mount arrays likely also consume a lot more power than the Noctua gear that home users typically deal with.

but transients are also the reason that most home arrays have way more capacity than they “need” based on plug power reads under nominal operating conditions. Hence also the potential benefit of platinum and higher PSU ratings. My NAS currently consumes less than 1/4 it’s PSU rating so the higher part-load efficiency of a platinum PSU has a measurable impact. Conversely, systems that operate at higher PSU loads would show less of a benefit since their mid-load efficiencies are usually not that much lower than those of a platinum or titanium PSU.
 

jgreco

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I need a little advice on the power consumption of case fans. In the advice of jgreco he uses an average of 15 to 30 watts per fan. If I'm checken the specs of the fractal desing silent 120mm, they only consume 1 watt. Also the Nuctua NF-A14 is on it's max 1,56 according to the specs.

Are these fans so much more efficiënt then the ones about about 5 years ago?

Stick a spudger through the fan while it's running and see what the results are like. Fans, especially consumer-grade PC fans like those Noctuas, are cheaply built and the "enthusiast"/"gamer" ones are meant to be sold to people who upgrade their systems every year or two, so long lifetime is low on the feature checklist, while quiet and blinky LED lights are quite high. Because they are cheaply built, they tend to have mortality issues between 3-5 years.

NAS units, on the other hand, typically have a 5-10 year service life. This is *yawn* for the industrial fans typically used in a server chassis, they're just getting broken in at 5 years, should last 10 without much trouble, and may last 15, 20, 30 years...

The issue is that, especially if you have a smaller PSU and a lot of fans, a sudden draw of a lot of watts due to fan stall can cause a brownout on the 12V, so you want to make sure your PSU can soak that up. This is not an exact science, so the advice I've given in the PPSUSG is somewhat on the paranoid side, but definitely if you size the way I suggest, "I would bet a small sum that a fan fail will not cause a PSU fail or voltage sag". Unfortunately, once stalled, fans tend to stay stalled, so you have to assume that a dead fan is eating those watts even when powering on a system, where most of the watts advised by the PPSUSG go.

You are ABSOLUTELY encouraged to do your own measurements on these things! I can only give general guidelines, but engineers doing proper engineering for critical gear would be doing stuff like the spudger test with a 'scope to derive these numbers. Just be aware that the manufacturer-provided numbers for consumer grade fans do not include things like stall current.
 

Niels80

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That makes sense. I will have to see if there are better options for my "Consumer case" as I don't have a server chassis. For now I planning a low powered NAS based on a EPYC 300 platform with 32GB of RAM, mirrored SSD boot drives and to start with 6 4 TB drives. If needed I can upgrade to a total of 10 drives.

My total watts I calculated is 375 watt (with 10 drives). I calculated it with 15 watts fot the case fans. So the minimum is 468 watts PSU. I'm thinking of a Seasonic Focus GX-550 or the Fractal design Ion+ 560P. I bigger PSU seems overkill to me, even with a stalled fan?
 

jgreco

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How did you come up with 375? The numbers I ran years ago for an Avoton C2550, still among the lowest wattage systems available, would work out to 437 watts with 10 drives, and after derating considerations, that puts you solidly in the 550W (maybe 500W) PSU category.

We occasionally do the exercise of "but but but it's oversized aren't I wasting dozens of watts because some random idiot blogger on the Internet said so." You don't know me from any random idiot blogger, but I show my homework and reasoning, and as an added benefit, I do servers professionally.

It usually comes out that a larger PSU is probably only eating an extra few watts, as in this recent discussion, and the insurance against brownouts that could damage your system is probably worth it.

Obviously, you are free to do as you wish, having been offered an informed opinion and the data backing it up.
 

Niels80

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How did you come up with 375? The numbers I ran years ago for an Avoton C2550, still among the lowest wattage systems available, would work out to 437 watts with 10 drives, and after derating considerations, that puts you solidly in the 550W (maybe 500W) PSU category.

We occasionally do the exercise of "but but but it's oversized aren't I wasting dozens of watts because some random idiot blogger on the Internet said so." You don't know me from any random idiot blogger, but I show my homework and reasoning, and as an added benefit, I do servers professionally.

It usually comes out that a larger PSU is probably only eating an extra few watts, as in this recent discussion, and the insurance against brownouts that could damage your system is probably worth it.

Obviously, you are free to do as you wish, having been offered an informed opinion and the data backing it up.

Thanks jgreco. You're replies are very much appreciated. I'm trying the make the best discussion for the PSU not to save a few bugs by buying a smaller unit. I spent a lot of time to find the right specs, and still I'm not sure I have the values I need.

This is my calculation:

Supermicro mainboard M11SDV-4CT-LN4F - 25 watt
processor AMD EPYC 3301 TDP - 35 watt
2 memory moduels 16GB ECC - 12 watt
HBA controller - 10 watt
10 x seagate ironwolf 4TB - 216 watt
Startup current of the drives 1,8 A (1,8 * 12 is 21,6 per driver)
5 cases fans - 75 watt
2 Transcend TS32GSSD370S 32 GB SSd - 2 watt
datasheet only mentioned max write speed of 180mA. Operating on 5V is less then a watt.

Total 375 watt
 
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