Please help with a home NAS (PSU?)

[MSameer]

Hi all :)

This is my first post but I have been reading the forum for a while. I learned a lot thanks to the cumulative knowledge and great support from all the members :)

This is the current system I am planning to build. I will use it at home for just streaming. One or 2 persons max.
Case: Fractal design Node 804
Motherboard: Supermicro x9scl-f
CPU: Intel pentium G2020
CPU cooler: Standard intel cooler
RAM: 16GB (2x8GB) ECC Micron PC3L 1600 MHz MT18KSF1G72AZ-1G6E1ZF (I checked the compatibility)
HBA: Dell perc H310
Boot SSD: Kingston A400 120GB
HDD: 6x4 TB WD red (I have not decided finally yet on the capacity) But I will run zraid2
power supply: Seasonic focus plus 850 gold

Overtime I am planning to add another 16 GB of RAM, an additional SSD for boot mirroring and maybe upgrade to a xeon CPU.
In a few years I am also planning to expand the storage with 6 additional HDD. But that is not in the near future :)

What do you guys think? Will the above mentioned setup work?

I am debating a 750W PSU instead of the 850W.

EDIT: Fixed motherboard model.

 

[Chris Moore]

Supermicro x9xcl-f

Not an actual model. Maybe an x9scm-f ?

Seasonic focus plus 850 gold

With only six drives, you could manage with a smaller power supply. If you wanted, but I see where you want to add more drives later.

Proper Power Supply Sizing Guidance
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

In a few years I am also planning to expand the storage with 6 additional HDD.

I don't think you will fit them inside the same case though. Did you have a plan for that?

What do you guys think? Will the above mentioned setup work?

Sure, this will work. No problem, except for that model number on the system board.

 

[MSameer]

Thank you for the quick reply :)

I do not believe I mistyped the mobo. It's x9scl-f :o

I have read the power supply sizing guidelines and my calculations are ~950 watts

Code:

12 HDD: 35 * 12
2 SSDs: 35 * 2 (Cannot be but assume the worst)
4 RAM: 6 * 4
MOBO + CPU: 25 + 80
HBA: 10
Fans: 5 * 30 (I doubt but assume the worst)

Total is 779 * 1.25 = 973.75 but this is assuming worst case scenarios.
The guide assumes a xeon system with 11-12 HDDs to consume 750 watts

I took the middle ground and opted for 850. I am not entirely sure that I am asking for help.

I don't think you will fit them inside the same case though. Did you have a plan for that?

The case can take 10 3.5" + 2 SSD.
I am planning to try to cram 2 extra drives somehow using mount brackets. But this will happen in the far future. Let's see :)

 

[Chris Moore]

Total is 779 * 1.25 = 973.75 but this is assuming worst case scenarios.

Well, I won't argue with you. I don't see hard drives draw that much power. I have a server at work that actually has 60 drives in it and it only has redundant 2000 watt supplies.

The case can take 10 3.5" + 2 SSD.
I am planning to try to cram 2 extra drives somehow using mount brackets. But this will happen in the far future. Let's see :)

Would you consider something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperMicro...i-F-2x-6-Core-E5-2620-2Ghz-Sleds/192816211745
It needs a couple changes to be perfect, but it is a possibility.

 

[MSameer]

Well, I won't argue with you. I don't see hard drives draw that much power. I have a server at work that actually has 60 drives in it and it only has redundant 2000 watt supplies.

Please do. I did my calculations according to the guide. But I am not sure what to pick up.

If 60 drives need 2000 watts then I can get away with a 650 watts PSU?

Would you consider something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperMicro...i-F-2x-6-Core-E5-2620-2Ghz-Sleds/192816211745
It needs a couple changes to be perfect, but it is a possibility.

This is a nice piece of hardware. But it's an over kill for me really. I also fell in love with the Node 804 :D

 

[Evertb1]

This is a nice piece of hardware. But it's an over kill for me really. I also fell in love with the Node 804

It really is a nice case but you will have problems to put 12 disks in it. I have build an OMV NAS for a friend in this case with 8 drives in it (in the HDU racks) and one SSD (in the front bay) . The cable management was a hard job. Putting 2 drives on the bottom would make the cable management even a harder job to do well. But to get a healthy airflow the cablemanagement is very important. As it was, I needed to buy 2 extra fans to keep the harddisks within acceptable temperatures (they were getting above 50 degrees celcius). And the CPU temps were also pretty high. I really don't know about putting even 12 disks in that enclosure. Maintaining a decent airflow no mather how much fans you add will not be easy if not impossible. And adding that Dell HBA won't make things better. I know from experience that it can get pretty hot. I have one running in a Fractal Design Define R5 (with a lot of room and a pretty healthy airflow) and I still needed to give it a dedicated fan (see a photo of that here. I can't imagine what will happen with those temps if there is no good airflow.

 

[MSameer]

It really is a nice case but you will have problems to put 12 disks in it. I have build an OMV NAS for a friend in this case with 8 drives in it (in the HDU racks) and one SSD (in the front bay) . The cable management was a hard job. Putting 2 drives on the bottom would make the cable management even a harder job to do well. But to get a healthy airflow the cablemanagement is very important. As it was, I needed to buy 2 extra fans to keep the harddisks within acceptable temperatures (they were getting above 50 degrees celcius). And the CPU temps were also pretty high. I really don't know about putting even 12 disks in that enclosure. Maintaining a decent airflow no mather how much fans you add will not be easy if not impossible. And adding that Dell HBA won't make things better. I know from experience that it can get pretty hot. I have one running in a Fractal Design Define R5 (with a lot of room and a pretty healthy airflow) and I still needed to give it a dedicated fan (see a photo of that here. I can't imagine what will happen with those temps if there is no good airflow.

This does not make me happy :(

I can always say that I will find a way but I do not think I can beat the experts...

Do you think I should stick to only 6-8 drives? I can replace them one by one as they die with bigger drives. At the end of the day what matters is the total usable disk space.

The issue is I just like how this case looks like. I tried to find a similar cube that looks nice and can take a decent number of drives (Even an ATX case) but failed.

 

[otpi]

Do you think I should stick to only 6-8 drives? I can replace them one by one as they die with bigger drives. At the end of the day what matters is the total usable disk space.

I recently decided to go with an unconventional 4x8TB vs the cheaper, and more conventional(?) 6x4TB option. Reasoning that:

• Any future storage upgrade will favor 8 TB drives (as drives inevitably grow in size), and I'd like to keep the number of drives low.
• I only use 4 of the 6 available sata ports, leaving 1 for SSD boot drive (hw inhouse, on to do list), and one for a spare drive for whatever reason.
• I can double available capacity with another two drives (although I do need move data and create a new pool for this to work)

 

[Evertb1]

The issue is I just like how this case looks like. I tried to find a similar cube that looks nice and can take a decent number of drives (Even an ATX case) but failed.

A small (nice looking) enclosure is always a compromise. It limits you in the formfactor of your motherboard. It limits you in the number of harddisks and other hardware you can house, it gives you a hard time with building your systems, it makes adequate cooling harder etc. etc. The way to go is to just take a good look at your wants and needs and then compromize on the for you less important points. If you need more then 8 disks to fill your storage needs your enclosure should not be the limiting factor. Only you can decide if you can do with 6-8 drives. Personaly I have found my "sweet spot" with 6 drives in a Raid-Z2 configuration. But that's is according to my needs.

 

[MSameer]

.

• I can double available capacity with another two drives (although I do need move data and create a new pool for this to work)

You will have to get 4 extra drives then. 2 for copying your data and 2 more to recreate the pool. And be at the mercy of the new drives not failing. That is dangerous!

A small (nice looking) enclosure is always a compromise. It limits you in the formfactor of your motherboard. It limits you in the number of harddisks and other hardware you can house, it gives you a hard time with building your systems, it makes adequate cooling harder etc. etc. The way to go is to just take a good look at your wants and needs and then compromize on the for you less important points. If you need more then 8 disks to fill your storage needs your enclosure should not be the limiting factor. Only you can decide if you can do with 6-8 drives. Personaly I have found my "sweet spot" with 6 drives in a Raid-Z2 configuration. But that's is according to my needs.

I do understand you and I greatly appreciate you trying to help me.
I don't mind a bigger case, I searched for a large cube case but none of them would take even 10 3.5"
I will keep the nas in my living room so I still need it to look good.

6x4TB drives will give me about 12-14TB. I think this will be enough for maybe 3 years. I can replace the drives with bigger ones as they age to get more space (after they are all replaced). Or maybe go for another case in 3 years? Who knows what will happen

Which PSU did you choose for the case with 8 drives BTW?

 

[Evertb1]

Which PSU did you choose for the case with 8 drives BTW?

A Corsair RM750x. But a RM650x would have been sufficent as well I think. I am a fan of this series. It is fully Modulair, has a nice build quality (electrically and mechanical) and it has a zero RPM fan with low and medium loads. So it operates very silent. I have one in my HTPC in the living room (the RM550x version) and I never hear it. Seasonic is also a brand of PSU's I trust and I like the Focus plus Gold series. I have 5 systems running and all with Corsair or Seasonic PSU's.

 

[otpi]

You will have to get 4 extra drives then. 2 for copying your data and 2 more to recreate the pool. And be at the mercy of the new drives not failing. That is dangerous!

The dangers of transferring are "easily" mitigated. I would not use new drives before doing a proper burnin. The bulk of my bytes are recoverable from other sources, and not important (i.e. media). Important data have more backups. In terms of data integrity/backup I consider my freenas box a big step up from local copies on laptops/desktops/phones etc. A proper backup of my setup is my next "big" step, as such I don't mind the two spare drives.

ymmw: I'd rather have 8x8 TB, than 16x4 TB (for ~32TB 6wide-raidz2 + backup).

 

[MSameer]

The dangers of transferring are "easily" mitigated. I would not use new drives before doing a proper burnin. The bulk of my bytes are recoverable from other sources, and not important (i.e. media). Important data have more backups. In terms of data integrity/backup I consider my freenas box a big step up from local copies on laptops/desktops/phones etc. A proper backup of my setup is my next "big" step, as such I don't mind the two spare drives.

ymmw: I'd rather have 8x8 TB, than 16x4 TB (for ~32TB 6wide-raidz2 + backup).

You are lucky then
Maybe I should do something similar then. Use 6x4TB drives and then add 2 more later? I understand I will have to recreate the pool.
I am also hoping that by the time I fill my array larger drives will have become more affordable. In that case I might have been better with a smaller case

 

[otpi]

You can add vdevs later. IMO, if you start with 6x4TB raidz2 vdev you can just add another another 6-wide raidz2 later for more capacity. Does not have to be the same size disks. A 6 wide raidz2 already has a pretty good economy, 33 % for "parity" vs the wasteful 50% in my 4 disk setup. 8-wide z2 is also fine, only 25% "parity". I chose 4x8TB to keep number of drives low, and my prediction that 8 TB will be more viable in the future (i.e. by the time I need to upgrade). Also, it was a really good Black Friday deal...

 

[MSameer]

Yes, I am planning 6x4TB for now. Let the future worry about itself

I did my calculations and 4TB costs the least per GB.

 

[MSameer]

So, I ended up getting a seasonic focus+ 750 Watts PSU instead of the 850

I checked https://www.45drives.com/wiki/index.php?title=Start_up_Power_Draw and based on that I think my 12 drives should never exceed 750.
15 drives are using ~425 watts, I will be using 12 so I should be around 340 watts.

Anyway, memtest is already running now and seems promising. We will see.

And boy, that case is very tight!

 

[Evertb1]

So, I ended up getting a seasonic focus+ 750 Watts PSU instead of the 850

Good choice I think. Should be plenty for your current needs with room left for future extensions. Enjoy your build.

 

[MSameer]

I am in a bit of a situation here:
I am trying to install 11.2-RELEASE-U1 but I am getting /dev/ada0 short write on character device
I also tried with 11.1-U7 but I am having the same issue.

The SSD is working fine because I can manage to install debian on it. I am not sure how to debug this issue. Any tips please? :)

I apologize for the screenshot but I do not know how to copy and paste from the KVM viewer output.

 

[MSameer]

I am in a bit of a situation here:
I am trying to install 11.2-RELEASE-U1 but I am getting /dev/ada0 short write on character device
I also tried with 11.1-U7 but I am having the same issue. View attachment 28781
The SSD is working fine because I can manage to install debian on it. I am not sure how to debug this issue. Any tips please? :)

I apologize for the screenshot but I do not know how to copy and paste from the KVM viewer output.

OK. I left the installer in the background while I typed that post and turns out that the installation completed successfully!

I am not sure why the error though. I will not delete the post. Maybe someone will hit the same issue and the post might help him in the future.