no apt after update to release

[shcshc]

how can i use apt to install software with shell?
I get now: zsh: permission denied: apt

 

[LarsR]

Scale is an appliance which depends on certain package versions to run as intended. During the Beta many users ran apt-commands to update packages and in doing so breaking their installation. The Devs then decided to block the use of apt allt ogether. You are not supposed to install packages on the base OS because truenas is not a Distro. It's an appliance running on debian. That doesn't mean that you can just install any additional packages you want. If a package you need is missing you are free to make a suggestion on jira. If it gest enough upvotes it might get included in future releases. Otherwise see if the package you're missing is available as container/app.

 

[shcshc]

ok, thank you

 

[JayG30]

This is quite unfortunate. It would be nice to be able to install at least some basic CLI tools to help me better monitor and debug things. Like nmon, iotop, etc. If I want to see what process is writing and reading from disk or using my network what tools do I have built into TrueNAS? The "reports" don't provide real insight. I'm not sure what programs are installed by default if any to handle those needs. It's all honestly a little annoying. So much for freedom to do as I see fit I guess? After being in the game for 20+ years I'd prefer to make my own choices and break stuff if I see fit. As much as I like TrueNAS and particularly Scale, I might need to reconsider now.

 

[Jailer]

This is quite unfortunate. It would be nice to be able to install at least some basic CLI tools to help me better monitor and debug things. Like nmon, iotop, etc. If I want to see what process is writing and reading from disk or using my network what tools do I have built into TrueNAS? The "reports" don't provide real insight. I'm not sure what programs are installed by default if any to handle those needs. It's all honestly a little annoying. So much for freedom to do as I see fit I guess? After being in the game for 20+ years I'd prefer to make my own choices and break stuff if I see fit. As much as I like TrueNAS and particularly Scale, I might need to reconsider now.

Are you seriously complaining about a free product? A pretty amazing one at that. And did I mention it was FREE?

 

[JayG30]

Are you seriously complaining about a free product? A pretty amazing one at that. And did I mention it was FREE?

are you serious? You realize there are tons of "free" software out there and people "complain" about them all the time...

No, I'm not "complaining". I'm providing my feedback in the community forum about an aspect and direction of the project.

Thanks for your constructive commentary and concern. Have a nice day.

PS: I downloaded the binaries and/or .deb files (installed via dpkg). What they are doing is pointless.

 

[MikeLowry]

are you serious? You realize there are tons of "free" software out there and people "complain" about them all the time...

No, I'm not "complaining". I'm providing my feedback in the community forum about an aspect and direction of the project.

Thanks for your constructive commentary and concern. Have a nice day.

PS: I downloaded the binaries and/or .deb files (installed via dpkg). What they are doing is pointless.

Hi Jay,

I agree.

During the beta and RC phases I spent many hours customizing the installation for use on prod when it is finally released. Today I upgraded to the release version and find no apt -

Also installed via dpkg

Cheers
M

 

[elvisimprsntr]

It's a high availability, enterprise class NAS appliance distribution.

If you want a the ability to install additional packages, you are welcome to install any Linux or FreeBSD distributions, and manually configure the distribution as a NAS.

Debian -- Debian derivatives

Guide to FreeBSD Desktop Distributions | FreeBSD Foundation

Updated: May 20, 2021 A collection of FreeBSD desktop distributions that have taken the FreeBSD operating system in a new direction while still relying on the incredibly powerful and stable base operating system of FreeBSD. From integrated desktop environments, portable USB-based systems, to...

freebsdfoundation.org

 

[Jailer]

I'm providing my feedback in the community forum about an aspect and direction of the project.

It will fall on deaf ears posting about it in the forum. If you want to see changes in the software then submit a feature request on Jira as @LarsR suggested.

 

[LarsR]

Try to understand it form a developer side: Let apt enabled and the flood of normal users, not knowing that apt will break dependencies for the middleware you specifically wrote for the intended usecase breaks, will get higher and you and especially this community forum have to deal with increasing complains with "mimimi my system broke because i thought its linux" or disable apt so your custom middleware is save and it is used how it's supposed to be used.
Feature request for missing packages are always welcomed in jira

 

[FrostyCat]

The whole APT suite is there, it's just missing the execute flag, sneaky sneaky.
Just do chmod +x /usr/bin/apt*


Of course, if things break, it's your own fault.

 

[NAK]

If you want you can reenable apt, add some dep sources and install everything. But expect failures. I installed iotop and idle3timer and some other tools. Did a snapshot of my boot pool beforehand. And I do not expect any of those tools to be installed alter an update.

 

[danb35]

It would be nice to be able to install at least some basic CLI tools to help me better monitor and debug things.

Probably the best thing to do would be to file a ticket to add these to the system. I'm surprised apt was available even in the pre-BETA releases; surely you know Free/TrueNAS have never had pkg available in the base OS.

 

[derWalter]

I want to have back the possibility to use apt,
as a professional, if I am risking to wreck my system,
it is my responsibility and in a catastrophic failure scenario
I need all the tools available to rescue and fix problems.

thats like mercedes locking the hood in new models,
saying you as the owner and operator of the vehicle
has nothing to do there :D

give me back my freedom -
we are all mature people around here, arent we???

the easy access to hacking is what makes the linux platform so great!
do I need to "root hack" my "pseudo root" account in SCALE now?

 

[danb35]

File a ticket for it if you want, but (given the history of Free/TrueNAS) I'm 99 44/100% sure their answer is going to be "no." I'm surprised it was even in the beta.

we are all mature people around here, arent we???

iX have never given users access to the package manager in the base system. Why would you expect that to change now?

 

[LarsR]

@derWalter , your comparison sucks, car manufacturers don't lock the hood, but they sure as hell lock you out of diagnosing the cars electronics and engine. You may be able to change oil, or airfilters, but if anything goes south on the software side do you have the diagnostics tools to read out error codes or update the cars OS firmare? Most likely no because manufacturers don't distribute the diagnostic tools and software to do so.
What do you think would happen if they let anyone tinker around with stuff like fuel injection times, compression rates? Or if anyone would try to install software that's not supposed and supported to run on your car's OS? They would be buried under mountains of Complaints. "I was just playing around and now my car wont start, what bullshit is this?". We saw enough of similar post regarding scale when people used apt during the beta complaining that they broke stuff because they didn't know what they were doing. Preventing the use of apt was the only logical and smart move to do to prevent a flood of complaints and jira tickets because people thought Scale works just like any other linux distro and did thinks that they were not supposed to do. There are enough posts on reddit and in this forum that describe how to get apt back. So if you want it back, just go for it.

 

[derWalter]

File a ticket for it if you want, but (given the history of Free/TrueNAS) I'm 99 44/100% sure their answer is going to be "no." I'm surprised it was even in the beta.

iX have never given users access to the package manager in the base system. Why would you expect that to change now?

pls read my post, the reason is there

@derWalter , your comparison sucks, car manufacturers don't lock the hood, but they sure as hell lock you out of diagnosing the cars electronics and engine. You may be able to change oil, or airfilters, but if anything goes south on the software side do you have the diagnostics tools to read out error codes or update the cars OS firmare? Most likely no because manufacturers don't distribute the diagnostic tools and software to do so.
What do you think would happen if they let anyone tinker around with stuff like fuel injection times, compression rates? Or if anyone would try to install software that's not supposed and supported to run on your car's OS? They would be buried under mountains of Complaints. "I was just playing around and now my car wont start, what bullshit is this?". We saw enough of similar post regarding scale when people used apt during the beta complaining that they broke stuff because they didn't know what they were doing. Preventing the use of apt was the only logical and smart move to do to prevent a flood of complaints and jira tickets because people thought Scale works just like any other linux distro and did thinks that they were not supposed to do. There are enough posts on reddit and in this forum that describe how to get apt back. So if you want it back, just go for it.

mercedes does indeed lock their hood on the new models. check your facts before ranting pls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg0kibsndMQ

I maintain my car myself, so I need to check and regulate injection timings, you cant change the compression ratio without modifying the hardware, you can only change charge pressure

If I break stuff, its my responsibility to take. A simple warning, eventually even with a prompt to answer with yes, every time apt is called, would be the better way. maybe even going so far, that a sign appears that you have modified your system, so every person trying to support you, instantly can see that its altered and not standard.

but as its not an open source, community driven project any longer, no one cares for the freedom which was the spark which unleashed linux in the first place...

 

[danb35]

pls read my post, the reason is there

No, it isn't. The reason you want it is there, but not the reason you figure iX is going to make U-turn after over 10 years. TrueNAS, and FreeNAS before that, and FreeNAS before that (no, not an error; two completely different products have carried the FreeNAS name), and m0n0wall before that, have always been an appliance, and by design you aren't supposed to be tinkering under the hood--that's nearly 20 years' of history among those products. So what makes you think they're going to change now? Just because they're now using a Linux base rather than BSD?

Again, if you want it to change, file a ticket. But don't be surprised when the answer is "no."

 

[FabrizioR8]

uh yea... how about including "ntpdate" so when the clock's off significantly, we can fix it and not have the NTP service puke about the time being too far off?

 

[danb35]

Rather than reviving a dead thread that has almost nothing to do with your question, how about following the one piece of advice in the thread that's relevant to your question and filing a ticket?