new build: X10SDV-4C-7TP4F vs X11SDV-4C-TP8F

[Mariska]

Hi guys,

I've been reading a lot of posts/sites to find the best CPU/ motherboard for my use case. I arrived at two possibilities and I'd like to ask your opinion which would be more suitable. sorry in advance for any stupid questions, I'm new to DIY when it comes to servers...

My use case: a file server (no VM's, transcoding etc.) for photos, videos and large datasets. I'd like to have ~100TB of raw storage with 8 HDD for now. I also want to add the drives from my husbands server later on (7 drives). I want to be able to add ZIL and L2ARC. I want 128 GB of memory, to allow me some room to grow. Worst case 10 users might ask for data. I'm going to use SMB shares. In the future, I'd like to use SPF+, but for now my network is RJ45.

My boards of choice: I arrived at two Xeon D CPU's on a supermicro board: X10SDV-4C-7TP4F andX11SDV-4C-TP8F. I like the number of sata on the x10 and it is cheaper. The X11 has a more powerful CPU and is more easily available.

My questions:

• are both systems capable of operating at maximum speed (as determined by the NIC) in the described 'worst case' scenario? or would the x10 be noticeably slower? --> yes, both systems are strong enough
• in the X11 I'll need a HBA, is there any reason why this is a problem? --> no. The x8 PCIe is enough for a HBA. Preferably a 9200 of 9300.
• will I be able to connect the x10 (with only SPF+) to my home network? and what would I need to do that? --> Yes, I will need a transiever and I should read up on 10Gbps networks (will do!!!)
• is there any reason why I shouldn't go with one of these boards? --> for now, no reasons mentioned.
• if at some point I'd like to upgrade to 40-100 gbit: would these boards be able to this with the right NIC added? -->The X11 might, the X10 would misses the required x16 PCIe

thanks a lot for any help/ ideas etc!!!

 

[Etorix]

As far as I know, 100 GbE would require a x16 slot, so the X11. Otherwise, the X10 should be enough to serve files over 10 GbE.
If your current network is fully Base-T, you only need a transceiver.

SFP+ to 10Gbase-T Adapter Module Buyers Guide

Our buyer's guide for SFP+ to 10Gbase-T adapters. We purchased nine popular models and tested their performance, power consumption, and Nbase-T support

www.servethehome.com

 

[ChrisRJ]

For 10+ Gbps the challenge for saturation is usually not so much the board but the combination of access patterns and configuration of the underlying storage. Even without details the 8 HDDs will not easily saturate 10 Ggbps. For 40 Gbps or more you would either need an all-flash system or a ridiculous number of spinning disks.

 

[Mariska]

As far as I know, 100 GbE would require a x16 slot, so the X11.

SFP+ to 10Gbase-T Adapter Module Buyers Guide

Our buyer's guide for SFP+ to 10Gbase-T adapters. We purchased nine popular models and tested their performance, power consumption, and Nbase-T support

www.servethehome.com

thank you!!! and do I understand correctly that, for a HBA, let's say an extremely over the top broadcom HBA 9400-16i tri-mode, a PCIe 3.0 x8 would suffice?

 

[Mariska]

Even without details the 8 HDDs will not easily saturate 10 Ggbps.

thank you! For the 8 HHD's I understand. are we still in the 'safe zone' with the extra 7 HDD's, ZIL and L2ARC? And would you say it would be wise to try to be future proof? Because I do expect our storage needs to continue to grow...

 

[ChrisRJ]

thank you! For the 8 HHD's I understand. are we still in the 'safe zone' with the extra 7 HDD's, ZIL and L2ARC? And would you say it would be wise to try to be future proof? Because I do expect our storage needs to continue to grow...

We need a lot more detail. What are the access patterns (simple video streaming, VMs, video editing, office files, etc.)?

I would recommend you read at least the following links from my "recommend readings" in the signature:

• ZIL and SLOG
• 10 Gbps primer

They deliver a good background, before we dive deeper into specifics.

 

[Mariska]

I would recommend you read at least the following links from my "recommend readings" in the signature:

• ZIL and SLOG
• 10 Gbps primer

thank you! I started with the 10 Gbps part, both your recommended reading and some other articles. it's a bit daunting to be honest.

So do I understand correctly that I always need a transiever with SPF+?

And the primer mentions vendor lock in. Would this mean that by choosing this board I'm limited in choosing a transiever and in choosing the other components for my network later on? Or am I free in choosing a transiever? And in replacing this one freely when I upgrade the rest of my network?

My network at this point has 1 Gb components (and cat6A cables). Which reciever would I need to just be able to plug in my current cables? Should I use the backward compatibility with SPF?

 

[ChrisRJ]

Quite honestly, going to 10 Gbps and beyond is an advanced topic. I would recommend to not rush things but spend a couple of weeks or months to read up on the many things that become relevant above simple Gigabit Ethernet. I suggest to start with what exactly(!) you want to do with the NAS. Think about sequential vs. random access, read vs. write, etc. For me personally I would say that this should be a text document of no less than half a page, but at least a full page is better. Search for storage requirement documents on the Internet as a starting point. And spend a lot of time on the forum, of course ;-)

Alternatively, get some professional help if you want to proceed quickly.

 

[Etorix]

There's a lot to read, but it will help you setting up—including not overspending.
A SLOG is not useful if there are no sync writes (NFS, databases, VMs); for serving files over SMB there's no need for it.
L2ARC is useful if the same files are regularly accessed, BUT it is advised to increase RAM first, at least to 64-128 MB, and only then consider a L2ARC—not too large.

You need a transceiver to link a SFP+ port to a BaseT network. SFP+ to SFP+ is with optical cables and modules, or with Direct Attach Cables, no transceiver (or those built in the DAC).
One or two transceivers is fine. If you need more, it's time to change your infrastructure to SFP+. Miktotik have some inexpensive SFP+ switches:

MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN Review 4-Port Must-Have 10GbE Switch

Our MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN review will go into why we think that this 4-port SFP+ 10GbE switch is a must-have tool for STH readers.

www.servethehome.com

MikroTik CRS309-1G-8S+IN Review Inexpensive 8x 10GbE Switch

In our MikroTik CRS309-1G-8S+IN review, we show what this low-cost, low-power, and silent 8x 10GbE SFP+ switch offers and when it can be used

www.servethehome.com

I also have on my desk a QNAP QMW-M408-2C switch with 8*1 GbE, 2*SFP+ and 2 SFP+/10 GBaseT combo ports; there are other models with other mixes.
With such products it is actually easy and relatively inexpensive to migrate the relevant parts of a home network to SFP+.

x8 PCIe is enough for a HBA. The 9200 and 9300 series are still preferred over the 9400 because the drivers are fully mature and tested, which may not yet be the case for the tri-mode.

 

[Mariska]

Thank you all for your useful answers. I think I've got most of my questions answered (for future reference, I edited my message with a summary) I've been reading and thinking a bit more and I have two additional questions:

• it seems the X11 overheats, so I might have to add an active cooler. Or would this be dependent on the chassis? I was hoping to make my the initial build with a chassis we already have (a fractal design r5). Would this chassis work? And would active heating indeed be necessary?
• what would the impact of the patches for meltdown and sceptre be on these older CPU's? I read somewhere the impact might be bigger for the broadwell (so the x10). Does anyone have any experience with the speed of reading and writing after the patches? Did they decrease relevantly?

 

[Etorix]

X10 and X11 all need some active cooling. The "passive heatsinks" assume that the board is installed in a tight server case with strong airflow (and noisy server-type fans). If this is not the case (consumer case) and/or you want the NAS to be quiet, you need to care for CPU cooling.
For the X10, the easiest way is to slap a quiet 60 mm fan on the passive heatsink (+ 2 strips of adhesive tape to secure, or if the motherboard is mounted vertically).

Near silent powerhouse: Making a quieter MicroLab platform

We take an Intel Xeon D based MicroLab platform and make it even quieter for home and office use

www.servethehome.com

I have no figures, but I wouldn't care about the impact of security patches.

 

[Mariska]

Thank you!! I've got two more questions...

- the Supermicro tested memory list seems to contain faster memory than indicated in the specs. Do I read that correctly/ is it indeed OK to use faster memory?

- in a jan 2018 post jgreco wrote about a 70% hit by/impact of Meltdown/Spectre. Is this still a realistic number?

 

[Etorix]

Faster memory can always operate at lower speed. The reverse generally doesn't work well.
As far as I can tell, no one ever complained about actual loss of performance from Spectre/Meltdown mitigation.

 

[beralt]

Before you decide for the X10SDV-4C-7TP4F, check out this thread:

Problem with LSI HBA after upgrade from FreeNAS 11.3U2 to TrueNAS 12.0

Hello everyone, since an update from FreeNAS 11.3.U2 (via 11.3.U5) to TrueNAS 12.0 I have problems with my LSI HBA. Error messages are as follows. mps0: Unfreezing devq for target ID 11 mps0: Unfreezing devq for target ID 9 mps0: Unfreezing devq for target ID 8 mps0: Unfreezing devq for...

www.truenas.com

I am not the only user that has exactly this problem, and so far no solution but to stay on FreeNAS 11.3.

I still hope that it might work with TrueNAS scale, but have not yet tested it.