Need assistance with hardware choice and understanding before buying.

[jackdinn]

Hi all,
Noob here,
So i'v been searching for nearly a year now for a NAS with other things to tinker with like Adguard and syncthing etc, but without much luck. Im just so confused, just can't make up my mind and full of questions.
Iv decided i shall go for a second hand prebuilt server system
like this (poweredge T420)
or this (Poweredge T320)
The question i firstly have is what is this drive controller board? do you have to have one? Can i just plug in sata 3.5" HDD's onto the mobo? does the mobo even have sata connectors?
If a system already has SAS drives, can i add extra normal drives? can i get rid of these SAS drives and completely replace with standard 3.5 sata HDD's, if i wanted? Can i mix and match?
Also, what is this Raid Controller? I dont want any RAID as i intend to use truenas and ZFS so how do i deal with this controller? do i just remove it?
Thx all.

 

[Ericloewe]

The question i firstly have is what is this drive controller board?

What's all the noise about HBAs, and why can't I use a RAID controller?

1) An HBA is a Host Bus Adapter. This is a controller that allows SAS and SATA devices to be attached to, and communicate directly with, a server. RAID controllers typically aggregate several disks into a Virtual Disk abstraction of some sort...

www.truenas.com

Don't be afraid to be SAS-sy ... a primer on basic SAS and SATA

With the introduction of SAS 12Gbps, seems like "it's time" to do a braindump on SAS. Work in progress, as usual. History By the late '90's, SCSI and PATA were the dominant technologies to attach disks. Both were parallel bus multiple drop...

www.truenas.com

Can i just plug in sata 3.5" HDD's onto the mobo?

Yes, but...

does the mobo even have sata connectors?

...the specifics depend on the server and its specific configuration. That will require somewhat deep research into what you want to buy. Also have a look at the ServeTheHome Forums, where there's a lot of specific knowledge on popular server models.

If a system already has SAS drives, can i add extra normal drives?

can i get rid of these SAS drives and completely replace with standard 3.5 sata HDD's, if i wanted? Can i mix and match?

SAS is in no way abnormal, but yes, you can mix and match. All the SAS hardware recommended here works well with both SAS and SATA.

Also, what is this Raid Controller? I dont want any RAID as i intend to use truenas and ZFS so how do i deal with this controller? do i just remove it?

Mostly, yes, just remove it. The specifics will depend on the server - if it's a standard PCIe slot, you can just replace it with a plain HBA. If it's a proprietary mezzanine card, you might have options for cards that will work or may have to live with an empty, "wasted" slot.

 

[ChrisRJ]

In addition, there has been a ton of very similar threads recently. Spending a couple of days on the forum is time well invested.

 

[jackdinn]

Thx for the response.

So i look at your signature line and see you use a Supermicro X11SSM-F, i also see a lot of these similar type of boards recommended but i can not find a lot of them except in China or the US (mostly, there are a few on amazon UK)?

I was looking at this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284831496490 , question:- is this supposed to be in a 1U etc with case fans? Can i not just stick it in an ATX case, would i need to change the heatsink to an active one?

 

[Ericloewe]

So i look at your signature line and see you use a Supermicro X11SSM-F, i also see a lot of these similar type of boards recommended but i can not find a lot of them except in China or the US (mostly, there are a few on amazon UK)?

The situation is Europe is not as dire as it has been, though everything is harder over on your side of the channel.

I was looking at this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284831496490 , question:- is this supposed to be in a 1U etc with case fans? Can i not just stick it in an ATX case, would i need to change the heatsink to an active one?

Yes to all, just replace the heatsink with a standard LGA115x heatsink and you'd be good to go. X10s are getting a bit old, but they're still viable if the platform is enough for you - critically, PCIe 3.0 connectivity is only on the CPU and does not bifurcate very well, and RAM is limited to 32GB.
Word of caution: There's some very dodgy RAM being sold on eBay, especially as part of these cheap bundles. Make sure to ask which model of DIMMs is included and crosscheck against the QVL - for X10, there's also a guide for that: https://www.truenas.com/community/r...ns-for-supermicro-x10-lga1150-motherboards.6/

Definitely steer clear of the "Mustang Memory" junk.

 

[jackdinn]

SAS is in no way abnormal, but yes, you can mix and match

So just to clarify, If i brought a system with a handful of SAS drive all grouped together into a vdev (a pool? is it, i think) and one broke and needed to be replaced, would it be ok to replace it with the same size drive but a non SAS?

 

[Ericloewe]

Yes.

 

[jackdinn]

So, im pretty sure i just going to buy this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125648032510

But im still unsure about the drive controller and connectors. It says it has a Dell PERC H710 512mb RAID Controller Now as i said i don't want any raid stuff.

Mostly, yes, just remove it. The specifics will depend on the server - if it's a standard PCIe slot, you can just replace it with a plain HBA. If it's a proprietary mezzanine card, you might have options for cards that will work or may have to live with an empty, "wasted" slot.

I think I should be able to change this controller to HBA in the bios, im almost sure this applies to this system and controller?

Support Videos | Dell UK

www.dell.com

P.S. Is there any reason why this whole system would not work if i lay it on its side?

 

[jackdinn]

I nearly brought a dell poweredge system today (again) but this raid card is still bugging me. Something is telling me to hold off on buying anything because im not right about the H710 card.
Even though i was led there when searching for changing from raid to hba on a dell perc h710 i get the feeling that the video in post above is not correct, but im not sure why.

So are my options the following?:-

crossflash the Dell PERC H710 RAID Controller Card with IT mode https://www.truenas.com/community/r...bas-and-why-cant-i-use-a-raid-controller.139/ I believe i can do that if there are not to many hiccups. The instructions seem straight forward (ish), but i bet it does not go well at all for me.

What about this controller? I see people say just get a "proper" controller, i have no idea what that means really but at a guess.

Dell H310 IT Mode HBA 6Gbps SAS SATA Mini-SAS PCIe 2.0x8 TrueNAS unRAID ZFS | eBay

This HBA can be directly connected to up to 8 SATA or SAS drives usingthis cable for SATA drives orthis cable for SAS drives. This HBA can be connected to more than 8 drives using a Backplane orSAS Expander usingthese cables.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Ericloewe]

The H310 is not fundamentally different from the H710, in that both are RAID cards that can be - unofficially - crossflashed to IT Firmware. That specific listing claims to already have done so, which does add value since nobody is really looking to use them for HW RAID.

I think I should be able to change this controller to HBA in the bios, im almost sure this applies to this system and controller?

That is not a good option, even if it's available. Dell, for mysterious reasons, customized the HBA firmware on their RAID controllers (where it is available, I believe that's an H730 and newer thing) to be painfully slow.

connectors

The stuff you're looking at should all use SFF-8087, IIRC. If not, cables with SFF-8087 one one end and SFF-8643 on the other are widely available, though you might have trouble finding very specific cables that fit neatly in a given system (e.g. Dell Nehalem/Westmere rack workstations need a right angle off to the side for the backplane connectors, to clear the chassis lid, which is a pain in the ass).
Ideally, buy a controller with the same port configuration as the original one (LSI cards typically have the connectors either opposite the PCIe edge connector or opposite the back panel) and using the same connectors. Even a couple of bucks extra is worth it, because the specialty SAS cables can get rather expensive.

 

[jackdinn]

Im having trouble understanding, can you just tell me what to replace the Dell PERC H710 with please.

Is the one i linked to ok? They both have the 2 connectors pointing towards the backplane i think. I dont know anything about the cables or connectors on the cables. Im just trying to buy a decent truenas system :-(