NAS on a dime; Build review

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Sokonomi

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Hi all,

I'm new to the scene, and after some finnicking around with FreeNAS on a virtual machine I wanted to finally step into the wonderful world of NAS. After spending most of my life dealing with VMs and crappy windows boxes to do my dirty work, I figured it was time to step it up a notch. Unfortunately im just a working man with an expensive hobby, so my funmoney is limited, and that means I will have to skimp on a few of the fancier features. Someone here on the forum kindly suggested id put my build up for review and suggestions, so here I go!

What I have to work with;
2 x Western Digital Green - 3Tb
2 x Western Digital Green - 1Tb
1 x Western Digital Caviar - 200Gb (heh)
1 x Samsung - 1Tb
All of them still in 100% health according to S.M.A.R.T.

My budget is about 500 to 550 euros (that includes shipping!).

What do I want to do;
Im probably asking a lot, but im going to try anyway;
- Centralized storage for the entire family (mom&pop store, plus living on 2nd floor).
- Media handling that involves sabNZBd, Transmission, Sickrage, Couchpotato, and Plex.
- WAN accessible cloud storage (I want us to be able to access everything from our phones).

What I had in mind;
I thought it would be best to buy two more 3Tb drives to pool them together with the two WD greens ive already got, setting them up as RAIDz1 for that one disk parity redundancy. Only about 350gb of my data is actually important, so I was thinking of making a second pool using the two WD green 1Tb drives, possibly striped for extra speed, to keep a backup of my important dataset, along with the jail dataset that could make good use of a fast scratchdisk. So in summary; 4 x 3Tb in RAIDz1 + 2 x 1Tb in Striped.

How I intend to do it;
I want to purchase the following items;
Mobo : Asus Prime B250M-K
CPU : Intel Pentium G4400 Boxed
RAM : Corsair ValueSelect CMV8GX4M1A2400C16 1x8gb
HDD : 2x WD Red WD30EFRX, 3TB
Case : Fractal Design Node 304
PSU : Inter-Tech CPM 550W II
Cooler : Scythe Shuriken Rev. B

Some notes about these parts ;
All this, plus some cables and thermalpaste guffins rings up for about 525 euros shipping included. The motherboard supports 6x SATA-600 on its own, so that saves having to buy a controller (for now). CPU im not sure about, could do with a bump to the next step which has hyperthreading. RAM is just as cheap as I could find from a reliable brand. HDDs are a pair of WD Reds, which apparently as the hot new thing for NAS building these days (can they be pooled with my greens though?). Case choice is because its got convenient drive cages that are actively cooled. Cooler is again a cheap choice that seems good for this build because an upright tower might get in the way of all the HDD cables.

Like I said, what im attemping to do wont win any pageants, but do you folk think this is a viable build? If you have any tips or suggestions, please throw them my way and ill be happy to look at them. Happy judging! ;)

- Soko Signing off

[EDIT] WHAT REALLY ENDED UP HAPPENING ;

So after a few discussions ive finally settled on what I want to do. Heres the config I decided to go with;

CPU : Intel i3-6100 *
RAM : Kingston ValueRAM KVR21E15D8/16 *
MOBO : ASRock Rack C236 WSI
HDD :
Pool1 :
2 x WD Green 3Tb ** + 2x WD Red 3Tb (Raid1Z)
Pool2 : 2 x WD Green 1Tb ** (Mirrored)
SSD : Team Group L3 EVO 120GB (Boot pool)
PSU : Corsair CX450M
Case : Fractal Design Node 304
Cooler : Shuriken Rev. B
* Bought secondhand.
** Already in stock.

As you can see, things have changed around quite a bit.

CPU : This one is a good step up from the G4400 I originally slated, because it bumps up the clockspeed, adds more cache, and provides hyperthreading (though apparently freeBSD doesnt care?). It was 45 bucks, 9 months used, still in store warranty, so I figured it was a good deal.

RAM : I ended up with a secondhand strip of unbuffered ECC, since it was only barely more expensive than just simple DDR4 nonECC. Another FreeNAS user here on the forum has stated to use this RAM + board combo no problem. So it feels like a sure bet.

MOBO : Its an asrock rack. Not the most ideal one, I know, but atleast its not a discoball all-flash-no-bang +/-100 euro one. It looks like its got the goods where it matters; Supports ECC (there it is), has a whopping 8 SATA ports allowing for full 6xHDD cage saturation (id have to sacrifice one for the boot drive otherwise), ample USB3.0 ports, and its got a pair of Intel NICs so freeBSD will play nice. I'll just have to pretend the audio bit isnt there.

HDD : Bit of a hodgepodge, for now. I already have two WD Green 3Tb and two WD green 1Tb loafing about. I intend to flash tweak them so they spinup quicker and can somewhat keep up with the pair of WD red 3Tb I intend to buy. I hope to ride out this config until the 6Tb drives have come down in price enough to swap out all HDDs for a fresh 6x6Tb Raidz2 down the road. Also, I doubt ill ever consider running a NAS with more drives than this.

SSD : I had to throw in a little SSD because Flash drives are rather unreliable. This one was cheap and the reviews I could find were all right enough for what it has to do, so there you have it.

PSU : Originally I had a cheap Intertech one planned, but I decided I should atleast go with a decent brand if I go cheap. Corsair has been a reliable horse in my stable for a while now, so im betting on it again. 450W should be sufficient.

Case : Its compact and well designed, as im used to from Fractal. Holds six normal 3.5" drives. The Node 804 has been mentioned, but its too bulky for the space I have reserved for it. It holds all the stuff I want, and has a good front to back airflow across the drives, which sounds like gravy to me.

Cooler : In all honesty I just grabbed a cheap one with good reviews. Its flat so it won't get in the way of the HDD cables, big fan so its quiet. can't do worse than stock, and is probably way overkill for a stock speed 51W CPU. :D

I'll report back with a build log and some metrics on how she runs.
 
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m0nkey_

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The only thing letting this build down in the motherboard. It's a gaming motherboard, it has LED lighting. While it may be considered 'pimp', it's not entirely suitable, for one it also has a Realtek NIC and this is a huge no.

You may want to consider the Supermicro X11SAE-M-O. While yes it's more expensive than the Asus, it will give you a super stable, always on system. It can also accept ECC should you ever chose to use it down the road.
 

Sokonomi

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It's a gaming motherboard, it has LED lighting. While it may be considered 'pimp', it's not entirely suitable
Having a few LEDs in a closed case doesnt really bother anyone I think, and the 'Gaming' tag is just stapled on for sales purposes, I dont think the hardware is all that different.

for one it also has a Realtek NIC and this is a huge no.
Why is that a no? Ive used Realteks before and they havent let me down yet? FreeBSD doesnt like em?

yes it's more expensive than the Asus
That motherboard is FOUR times more expensive! o_O No. Thats not in the budget.
 

Chris Moore

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Sokonomi

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I appreciate the insight, but please stop recommending 200 dollar motherboards as an 'alternative' to a 50 dollar one.
This is a low budget build so I need low budget solutions. :oops:
 

IQless

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I do have to point out that 8GB of RAM is the bare minimum for FreeNAS. If you are going to be using a lot of jails (Plex, etc) you will need more.

If you are going the route of a low budget build, I must point out the necessity of good backups (offsite, cloud,"anything" outside of the FreeNAS box).

You can add a Intel NIC (can be had relatively cheap on ebay), that will give you a solution to the Realtek problem @m0nkey_ pointed out.

thought it would be best to buy two more 3Tb drives to pool them together with the two WD greens I've already got
Yes, it is possible, but do a proper burn-in on all the drives (including the greens you already have).
You might also want to check out this:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...s-and-reds-with-wdidle3-exe.18171/#post-98858

Also, RaidZ1 is not recommended for drives larger than 2TB (some say 1TB), just something to have in mind.
 

Sokonomi

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I do have to point out that 8GB of RAM is the bare minimum for FreeNAS. If you are going to be using a lot of jails (Plex, etc) you will need more.
Perhaps you've noticed already, but I opted for a single stick of 8Gb. This is so that I have an option to double it up in the future (or now, depending on how dire the need). What does FreeNAS do when it runs out of memory? Id be surprised to learn it has a pagefile. :p

If you are going the route of a low budget build, I must point out the necessity of good backups (offsite, cloud,"anything" outside of the FreeNAS box).
Ive discussed this with Chris in another topic. The way I had it planned, I would have quadruple redundancy on my important dataset, because that dataset would have to blow out on the main array (4disk RAIDz1), the secondary array (2disk Mirrored), and on an external that pulls a copy once a month to be stored off site (fire safety). The rest of the main array is just downloaded TVshows and movies that I could grab back in a weekend (600MBps. line), so no terrible loss there if that biffs it. I presume ive got eggs in enough baskets this way?

You can add a Intel NIC (can be had relatively cheap on ebay), that will give you a solution to the Realtek problem @m0nkey_ pointed out.
Realtek really is a boogeyman around these woods isn't it? :confused: Intel Dualport 1Gbits can be had on ebay for 14 bucks, so I suppose thats a cheap and easy fix?

Yes, it is possible, but do a proper burn-in on all the drives (including the greens you already have).
Ill have to look up the proper procedure for.. burning in my drives.. Thats a thing? I thought that was just for setting thermalpaste. :D
EDIT; I found the guide.

I am currently aware of the greens being awfully stupid drives, but I had to be one of those people who bought them just as they came out. Only found out how annoying their intelipark docking was until after the two week return policy. So now I kinda have to roll with it I suppose. Interesting to see that you can tweak the firmware with a tool though! The video explaining it is a bit sketchy though, I cant really make out whats going on. But ill definitely attempt it before stuffing them into my new NAS. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. :D

Also, RaidZ1 is not recommended for drives larger than 2TB (some say 1TB), just something to have in mind.
Everybody here seems to be 'hating' on RAIDZ1 so badly, is there an inherent problem to it apart from the seemingly super remote possibility of two drives biffing it in a short succession? If one drive eats it, I cant just replace it and have them chug to rebuild the array while I keep a big fat fan ontop of the cage for extra cooling support? Or is there something else that makes RAIDZ1 less appealing? I cant go full on 2v2 mirror, id lose too much space.
 
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Sokonomi

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I'm just trying to make the best of what I've got, and as it stands, going with a 4x3Tb RAIDz1 array and a secondary 2x1Tb Mirror array seems like the best option without suffering massive capacity loss. There is no room in the budget for more drives, especially not with that insanely expensive motherboard and necessity of more RAM curently looming over this project. I MIGHT be able to stretch the budget to 600 euros, but there have to be some compromises at some point.

In all honesty I could just keep my important data on the mirrored secondary array with an offsite copy, and run the 4x3Tb as a "run it till it wrecks" kind of mentality since none of that would be important if it were destroyed in the unlikely event of 2 drives eating it. The two greens weren't from the same batch, so they are unlikely to go out simultaneously. The only real risk is the two new reds biffing it together due to a faulty batch I think.
 
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IQless

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Like you say, you must make the best of what you got. We just want you to be aware of the potential problem with RaidZ1, but if like you say keep quadruple backups of whats important, then its still better than no redundancy.

Realtek really is a boogeyman around these woods isn't it? :confused: Intel Dualport 1Gbits can be had on ebay for 14 bucks, so I suppose thats a cheap and easy fix?
Almost any real Intel nic should suffice :)

Perhaps you've noticed already, but I opted for a single stick of 8Gb. This is so that I have an option to double it up in the future (or now, depending on how dire the need). What does FreeNAS do when it runs out of memory? Id be surprised to learn it has a pagefile. :p
FreeNAS will consume as much RAM as it can get its hands on. But 8GB is the minimum it needs to run ZFS. Adding another 8GB should give you the headroom to use jails like plex etc.
 

Sokonomi

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If I get a hold of some extra money in the near future, perhaps it would be a nice idea to retire the two 1Tb drives and plop in another pair of 3Tb drives instead. Would putting that in Raidz2 make it better? Just future planning for now though. :p

Adding another 8GB should give you the headroom to use jails like plex etc.
Having the bare minimum RAM seems to be the most crucial fault in my build, so ill twist my own leg a little for 16Gb. Would a Team Group Vulcan DDR4-3000 2x8GB kit suffice? It seems to have a nice speed and latency. And budget wise its not too terrible, I still have about 20 euros left in the budget (for either a slightly better motherboard, or an additional intel NIC).
 

IQless

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If I get a hold of some extra money in the near future, perhaps it would be a nice idea to retire the two 1Tb drives and plop in another pair of 3Tb drives instead. Would putting that in Raidz2 make it better? Just future planning for now though. :p
RaidZ2 will be a much better option :) But do remember that you will have to destroy the pool to recreate it into RaidZ2.

Having the bare minimum RAM seems to be the most crucial fault in my build, so ill twist my own leg a little for 16Gb. Would a Team Group Vulcan DDR4-3000 2x8GB kit suffice? Its got a nice speed and latency, apparently, and budgetwise its not too terrible, I still have about 20 euros left in the budget (for either a slightly better motherboard, or an additional intel NIC).
AFAIK FreeNAS won't get much out of the increased RAM speed (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
You might want to just look for some cheaper value ram, might be that you could save a few bucks.
 

CraigD

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Everybody here seems to be 'hating' on RAIDZ1 so badly, is there an inherent problem to it apart from the seemingly super remote possibility of two drives biffing it in a short succession? If one drive eats it, I can't just replace it and have them chug to rebuild the array while I keep a big fat fan ontop of the cage for extra cooling support? Or is there something else that makes RAIDZ1 less appealing? I can't go full on 2v2 mirror, id lose too much space.

Drives will fail, during a rebuild the other drives are stressed, this longer they are under stress the chances of a second failure increases greatly (it has happened to me)

Will you consider second hand parts? you buy/build a great system with your budget we can help with recommendations

You could buy one 3 TB drive for now and build a 6 wide RAIDz2 pool, then replace the smaller drives with 3TB drives when you can

Have Fun
 

Sokonomi

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@CraigD I wouldn't mind 2nd hand drives as long as they give me the SMART readout so I know im not buying a gimpy drive. As for the other parts, its always a gamble, people rarely sell parts because they are still good. Plus ofcourse the whole 'no warranty' thing.

I also think you misunderstood the drives I currently have. I only have two 3Tb ones, buying just one more as you suggest would bring that up to three, not six. Unless you meant putting the 1Tb ones in with my 3Tb ones somehow, but I don't think Raidz2 supports mixed sizes?

AFAIK FreeNAS won't get much out of the increased RAM speed (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
You might want to just look for some cheaper value ram, might be that you could save a few bucks.
Thats the weird bit. If I look for something slower, it gets more expensive. o_O That one was literally the cheapest 16GB kit on the list.

Ive checked what motherboards I could grab if I stretch my budget to 600 euros, and I came across this one; MSI B250M Gaming Pro. Apart from the gaudy color and name, look at the specs. Its got 6x SATA-600, and, yes, an intel NIC. Only downside I see is the RAM speed only goes up to 2400 for some reason.

Theres also the somewhat more mildly mannered Gigabyte GA-Q170M-D3H to look at. Its got all the bells and whistles, 6 regular SATA-600, and also another three SATAexpress ports (not sure if FreeNAS can use these). Also an Intel NIC, plenty of RAM capacity (though only up to 2133MHz)

Or what about the AsRock B360M-HDV? A nice modest looking thing, appears to be the meatier brother to the one I initially had planned. Its got 6xSATA6, Intel NIC, handles RAM up to 2666MHz. Asrock apparently has a nice track record among the NAS community, according to the hardware recommendation guide.

So what do you folk think of these? Take your pick? :p The asrock one would still be cheap enough to allow me to bump the CPU up to a G4600 for some hyperthreading.
 
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IQless

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Unless you meant putting the 1Tb ones in with my 3Tb ones somehow, but I don't think Raidz2 supports mixed sizes?
It does, but it will treat all the drives as the size of the smallest one, but it will auto-expand when you have replaced the 1TB drives for 3TB later on (if you so choose).

One other thing, what kind of boot device are you going to use?
 

Sokonomi

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It does, but it will treat all the drives as the size of the smallest one, but it will auto-expand when you have replaced the 1TB drives for 3TB later on (if you so choose).
This would result in a capacity just barely over 3.6Tb. Thats pretty awful. :')

One other thing, what kind of boot device are you going to use?
I was thinking of slapping an M.2 drive in there, but I cant seem to find a super cheap small one. Best I found was a 128Gb one for 40 bucks. A SATA SSD is not an option unless I get a motherboard with more than 6 SATA ports.
 

gpsguy

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By default, FreeNAS puts a 2GB swap file on each hard disk. It's mainly there to assist with disk swaps when the sizes are slightly different. But, if you don't size the RAM correctly, FreeNAS might use significant amounts of swap.

Id be surprised to learn it has a pagefile.
 

gpsguy

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If you need more SATA ports, consider getting an HBA (host bus adapter) that you can flash to IT mode. Costs for these on eBay are about $100 (or less) USD.

A SATA SSD is not an option unless I get a motherboard with more than 6 SATA ports.
 

Sokonomi

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By default, FreeNAS puts a 2GB swap file on each hard disk.
Heh, so thats why it ate through my VM's 1:10 scale mock drives so quickly. ;)

Ive read the hardware recommendation manual and it said I should run 1GB of RAM for each 1Tb of NAS storage as a rough rule of thumb, but more is always better, especially if theres a few jails involved.

If you need more SATA ports, consider getting an HBA
Considering this is a budget build and there are cheaper ways of getting a bootpool in, id say this one is not in the stars. :rolleyes:
 
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