Micro ATX Home NAS with Upgrade path. Suggestions Welcome.

[Senti_Mentel]

So first off a little back story...

I'm Senti_Mentel, and I want to build a Home NAS for my personal data storage. I've decided to do this mostly due to lack of HDD bays in most of my PC's as well as the ludicrous amount of video footage I produce in just a 6 month period. I have always built my own and many others bersonal PC's unless a custom built does not suit the use case scenario(which is quite rare) and over the years I have accumulated a lot of spare hardware. So after a recent move I decided to actually put some of this hardware to use and see just how useful all this stuff can be.

So my first project is a Home NAS and for the past few weeks i have been reading through these forums and researching FreeNAS in an effort to gain somewhat of an understanding before diving right in. I'm completely new to FreeNAS, ZFS file systems, and Raidz, but relatively fluent in windows, debian based linux distros, and enthusiast grade consumer hardware.

Now that that's out of the way let's get to the good stuff...

I suppose the best place to start would be my intended usage and top priorities, as well as my personal data back up routines. My top priority is mass storage and access to video files as I do quite a lot of video capture, creation, and editing and this is by far the largest portion of my data. After researching FreeNAS I've stumbled upon some of the other uses for it and would like to incorporate some media streaming ability and personal file access while away from my home network if possible although these are definitely lower on my list of priorities as i have more then enough hardware to make multiple machines.

This machine will not stay the same. The following section is simply a starting point and will be upgraded as I accumulate more use specific hardware and learn more about my needs for FreeNAS.

So as a starting point I'll list some of my possible hardware configurations from my collection of hardware. (I will attempt to link as mush as I can to amazon unless they do not offer relevant information regarding the component I'm referring too)

I'v read through the Hardware recommendations a couple times and will continue to do so over the next few weeks as i work on this project and listen to suggestions from you all so no need to suggest this I promise I am already doing so.

For Clarification-These are the components that I already have on hand. Depending on what options yield better results some other parts may become necessary but can be bought at a late date.

Case: Fractal Design Node 804 MATX cube case
Other case recommendations welcome but I am keeping several things in mind. Continue reading for more info on my case requirements.

Motherboards:
ASUS P8H77-I or (alternative link with slightly more information)

ASRock N68C-GS4 FX or (alternative link)

CPU:

Intel i5-3450@3.1Ghz Quad-core or (alternative link)

RAM: (no I don't have any ECC RAM on hand but again...this build will grow and evolve)

16GB (2x8GB) G. Skill Aegis DDR3-1333 or (Amazon link to exact product unavailable)

8GB (2x4GB) G. Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1333 or (newegg)

PSU:

Corsair cx600M (newegg)

HDD's:

Seagate Constellation ES.2 3tb Enterprise Class HDD or (Newegg)
I have 6 of these on hand but plan to use 4 and keep the other 2 as backups

SSD: possibly a cache drive if someone would like to explain the benefits of using one as I never have???

Mushkin - ECO2 120GB 2.5 Unfortunately I could not find the same item for sale anywhere, even ebay!!!

OS Flash Drives:

PNY 32GB Turbo USB 3.0 Flash Drive (P-FD32GTBOP-GE)
2 drives mirrored

GPU: ???
I read in a few different places that people where installing these in there Home NAS and i have several but not sure if or why i would want one in a NAS(explanation would be appreciated)

XFX Radeon R9 270X 2Gb R9-270X-CDFR Not exactly the same as mine as I have the BestBuy exclusive (R9-270x-CDFR 2Gb) model but otherwise identical as far as I know. (Link to actual card specs)

These have all been links to exact parts on hand excluding the GPU but if anyone requires specific model#, serial# or sku I can provide.

Anyway this is all just a start and will evolve as I learn FreeNAS and my needs but please feel free to add suggestions or speculate.

And before anyone says it...I know I know, ECC RAM

As far as configuration this is a topic i would absolutely love some input on as I am just learning ZFS and FreeNAS software. As well as any input on RAIDZ vs Mirroring as I would rather keep my storage capacity up if the impact to throughput would not be overwhelming. Also I keep all irreplacable files on offline drives so this is not my only redundancy.

Thanks in advance for any and all readers, suggestions, and comments.
I look forward to this process

Senti_Mentel

 

[Chris Moore]

for the past few weeks i have been reading through these forums and researching FreeNAS in an effort to gain somewhat of an understanding before diving right in.

That is a great way to start.

Case: Fractal Design Node 804 MATX cube case
Other case recommendations welcome but I am keeping several things in mind. Continue reading for more info on my case requirements.

I suggest a case that can accommodate a full ATX system board as it gives you more flexibility for the future.

Motherboards:
ASUS P8H77-I or (alternative link with slightly more information)
ASRock N68C-GS4 FX or (alternative link)

Neither of these are very good options, mainly because they limit your options on PCIe expansion for adding disk controllers, and other devices such a SLOG or L2ARC drives.
You don't need to go new, but something like this would be a better choice:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-X9SRL-F-E5-2609-LGA-2011/222984132591

The vendor is even selling it with a 2.4GHz quad core Xeon processor installed. For a plain NAS, it would do almost anything you need. If you need more processing power for some feature like Plex transcoding, then you could upgrade it with a 6 core processor like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon...ket-LGA2011-HEXA-Core-SERVER-CPU/332661343418

It will work fine and last a long time. I use one like this and it does all I need for running a couple Linux VMs and running a couple Jails, Plex being one of them, and I can do two or three transcoded streams at once easily.

Another nice thing about that board is that the memory is cheap. This is the kind I use:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-16...red-1-35V-RDIMM-M393B2G70DB0-YK0/302110582298

I have 64GB currently and there are 8 slots to add memory, so room to grow if needed. With 8 16GB sticks, it would top out at 128GB, but you can use higher capacity modules and take the system to 256GB of RAM or more.

HDD's:

Seagate Constellation ES.2 3tb Enterprise Class HDD or (Newegg)
I have 6 of these on hand but plan to use 4 and keep the other 2 as backups

I would go ahead and use all 6 in a RAIDz2 configuration. It is a good idea to have a couple spare drives, but 6 drives in RAIDz2 is a, "sweet spot," because of how the blocks fall in place on disk. It is easy to buy more drives.

OS Flash Drives:

PNY 32GB Turbo USB 3.0 Flash Drive (P-FD32GTBOP-GE)
2 drives mirrored

No point spending extra for USB 3.0... Unless you already have these, it would be better to use a small capacity / old SSD you have laying around not being used for anything else. A single SSD usually has better reliability than a mirrored pair of USB sticks. Personally, I use a pair of old laptop hard drives. Not old in the aspect of having been used hard for years and re-purposed. They were never used, 40GB drives from back around 2011 and I have been running a mirrored pair of them in my NAS as boot drives for almost 5 years now with zero errors of any kind.

GPU: ???
I read in a few different places that people where installing these in there Home NAS and i have several but not sure if or why i would want one in a NAS(explanation would be appreciated)

FreeNAS only uses a display for a text console and there is no point having a GPU. The system board I pointed you to has all the GPU FreeNAS needs integrated in the board, so it is one less slot you need to use. But even the Plex installation that runs on FreeNAS can't use a GPU to accelerate the transcode. The CPU is what matters.

 

[Chris Moore]

PS. I have a button in my signature called "Useful Links" and, as the name implies, there are many useful links in there. Things you may not have seen yet.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

Your suggestions are very much appreciated, and your definitely correct in stating that this hardware is sub-optimal. First let me explain my rational and then I'll address you specific points.
All of the above parts are already on hand and both platforms would require very little to get a home NAS up and running. The intel platform requires absolutely nothing, as all parts are on hand. This option would look something like this: i5-3450 in the p8h77-i mini-itx mobo with 16 gb of 1333mhz ram, booting from mirrored internal flash drive(my PNY 3.0 drives are also on hand but honestly the price different for new ones in not significant, actually cheaper depending on vender) with 4x3tb enterprise class HDD's in either RAIDZ-1(I think) or mirrored vdevs, the limitation of 4 due to the p8h77-i only having 6 sata headers 1 of which I was considering using as a caching drive with my 120gb mushkin ssd, 1 to an optical drive, so I could also rip information directly from any dvd/cd media I have, and the last 4 taken by the afore mentioned HDD's.

The AMD platform would require a processor and has 2 less SATA headers limiting me to the 4 HDD's but would be otherwise identical. The one benefit to this option is that it uses Qualcomm Atheros AR8171 as oposed to the p8h77-i using a realtek lan chipset.

Now like I stated previously this system will evolve which is why I appreciate your cost friendly suggestions on hardware. Although for now I build, decommission, and part-swap pc components on such a regular basis that I'm mostly just considering this as a system to get a freeNAS in my hands and usable ASAP as well as borderline free.

My choice in case of the node 804 is mostly just because its one of the only cases i have ATM without a running system in it with enough 3.5 in drive bays to hold all my HDD's. Plus it will fit both M-itx and M-atx systems so either on hand platform will work in it.

But again this system will evolve. So a full ATX system in not out of the question, so I will keep your suggestions in mind.

Now for the questions I have regarding your suggestions:

1. My understanding of the FreeNAS OS is that it discovers new hardware on boot so any hardware change does not require a fresh install....Is this correct?
2. I had also read that using flash media is almost the perfect solution to a boot drive so as to save all SATA connections for usable storage drives in the array. Is it really worth using a SATA port for the OS as opposed to flash media?
3. As far as a GPU in a NAS is concerned i questioned this myself but after reading and watching several people do this I just figured "What the He**, It's not like im using that card for anything else". lol. But I am curious why I have seen so many people do this? Can the NAS not be connected directly to a monitor or TV for use with PLEX or another streaming jail(this part I am very new too as I've never built a media streaming pc and as such I'm quite unfamiliar with these streaming services.

In any case I appreciate your feedback and after getting things up and running and dipping my toe into the proverbial FreeNAS and ZFS "pool"(lol, see what I did there) I will definitely take your hardware recommendations into account. So thank you

 

[Chris Moore]

4x3tb enterprise class HDD's in either RAIDZ-1

It is not a good idea to use drives larger than 1TB with RAIDz1, because of the time it takes to resilver if a drive fails and must be replaced. It exposes you to the same level of risk to use mirrors. If you want safe storage, you want RAIDz2 (2 parity drives) and where I work we often also use a hot spare to ensure that the system can recover if there is a fault when nobody is looking.

i only having 6 sata headers

1 to an optical drive, so I could also rip information directly from any dvd/cd media I have

I am not sure how you plan to do that. It isn't supported as far as I know. Did you read about someone doing that?

1 of which I was considering using as a caching drive with my 120gb mushkin ssd

Depending on your intended use, there is no reason to have a cache drive especially when you are limited to 1GB Ethernet.
Also, if you want more drives, you can add a SAS controller. I have 36 drives in my main NAS.

The one benefit to this option is that it uses Qualcomm Atheros AR8171

I wouldn't say that is an advantage. I searched for it and support for the chip was added, but it isn't widely used in FreeNAS. General guidance is to stick to Intel for reliability.

for now I build, decommission, and part-swap pc components on such a regular basis that I'm mostly just considering this as a system to get a freeNAS in my hands and usable ASAP as well as borderline free.

It is tough to beat free, but when you are building a storage system, you should consider (in advance) that the storage will be persistent for years. My storage array (the drives) have moved to new system boards and new chassis and I have replaced aging drives with newer drives. FreeNAS does not lock you in on hardware so you can be flexible and move the system, but certain design criteria should be considered up-front or you will need to fully build a new system and migrate the data to it via the network.

1. My understanding of the FreeNAS OS is that it discovers new hardware on boot so any hardware change does not require a fresh install....Is this correct?

Absolutely. I have used that feature several times to replace my system board with a newer / better board. It will also go out and find your drives if you move them to a different controller.

2. I had also read that using flash media is almost the perfect solution to a boot drive so as to save all SATA connections for usable storage drives in the array. Is it really worth using a SATA port for the OS as opposed to flash media?

That really depends on your plans. I use my on-board SATA ports for nothing except booting the OS. I have 10 ports and only use 2. I have 48 storage bays in the chassis and all of them are connected to the SAS controller, even though they are SATA drives. I stopped using USB sticks for boot media when I had two of them fail on me inside of a single year. Twice was enough for me. I went to using SATA drives for boot drives and have not looked back but many people are using a single SSD as a boot drive because of their very high reliability. I would go with an Intel drive if I were going to do that. It doesn't need to be fast or high capacity, so something like an Intel SSD 320 Series (SATA II) would be fine. Even one that is already 5 years old would probably last longer than a brand new USB stick.

3. As far as a GPU in a NAS is concerned i questioned this myself but after reading and watching several people do this I just figured "What the He**, It's not like im using that card for anything else". lol. But I am curious why I have seen so many people do this?

Many of the boards that are being used for NAS builds are re-purposed gaming boards and don't have any video capability at all without a video card of some kind. I did that in both of my first two NAS builds. I actually used an old PCI (not PCIe) video card that I had laying around that was over 10 years old when I built the system. It is just to see the text console during setup or if you need to do some troubleshooting. All the configuration (after setting the IP address) is done through the web GUI and FreeNAS has no use for a GPU that is robust (gaming for example) the one I used had like 8MB or 16MB of memory. It is just making text.

Can the NAS not be connected directly to a monitor or TV for use with PLEX or another streaming jail(this part I am very new too as I've never built a media streaming pc and as such I'm quite unfamiliar with these streaming services.

There is no way that I am aware of to use the GPU (video card) on the FreeNAS hardware for anything other than the text console. I stream my Plex jail to my smart TV by way of the network.

In any case I appreciate your feedback

Any time. Happy to help.

after getting things up and running and dipping my toe into the proverbial FreeNAS and ZFS "pool"(lol, see what I did there)

LOL. Yes, I see what you did there. Do work on the reading in my links. There is a build down there where FreeNAS is running as a VM inside ESXi and the ESXi is housing other VMs also. If you wanted to pass a GPU into another VM, it might be possible to connect that GPU to a monitor to play videos on an "AIO" build. Many things are possible if you take the time to do the configuration, but it does add to the complexity. I run my ESXi system on separate hardware from the storage platform.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

Well i definitely see the advantages of using a SAS controller, as well as ECC memory, and a SSD boot drive. To be perfectly honest I also agree with the general consensus of "If your going to do something, do it right" But a 48 bay NAS seems a little overkill to me considering it will be my first NAS and a simple home file NAS.

This first setup is simply to get things off the ground and obtain some real world experience and knowledge through a little trial and error. I will continue reading as well and planning my upgrades, but for now I'm still not convinced that a temporary base system would be an unbelievably bad or risky idea. My data is already backed up in offline drives, so the risk of loosing a pool for me is not that frightening. I'm mostly concerned with usable drive space, and as mirroring only leaves me with 50% of my possible storage I'd prefer to use a raid setup. I am curious what the difference would be in transfer rates though between a mirrored array and a raidz-1 considering my hardware limitations in either case for now.

Even if i build this first system and then migrate all the drives to a completely different setup I have not yet seen a reason why i would have to keep the drives live and transfer to new live drives. At least not with where i believe the system will evolve to. Simple hardware transfer and hardware detection upon boot were some of the biggest reasons for deciding to try FreeNAS.

As for your optical drive question...No, honestly I just assumed but now ill be looking into it further. Either way it wasn't a priority, just had a spare SATA port.
The qualcomm chip was simply a step up from a known bad realtek. not much of an advantage but still an advantage.

In the long run I will go with server components and set things up slightly differently although for now I believe ill try my hand with something a little smaller. I do have one question though regarding upgrades. I know that a raidz array cannot be switched from 1 to 2 or 3 without transferring data, wiping, and then transferring to the new array and its new raidz level after adding more drives, but after finding a level that works for my needs ill still only be able to add more drives in sequential increments and creating a separate vdev. As in starting an array with raidz 2 across 6 drives then my next upgrade would be another 6 drives and another pool and raidz 2 array, correct? Original and New addition would be separate volumes? if this is the case then i see what you mean about proper planning, and will attempt to start with raidz2 across 6 drives.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

P.S. As far as the GPU is concerned, i have no intention of pursuing that if it makes no difference. I just had it laying around.

And again, thank you for your input and suggestions. I'm still new to this.

 

[Chris Moore]

But a 48 bay NAS seems a little overkill to me

I didn't start with that. I built my first system with a used desktop computer. A Dell Precision T3400 to be exact, and it only had 8GB of non-ECC memory.

I have not yet seen a reason why i would have to keep the drives live and transfer to new live drives.

You can't change from RAIDz1 to RAIDz2 once the vdev is established. So, there are cases where you would need to make a whole new pool to change the characteristics of the array.

As in starting an array with raidz 2 across 6 drives then my next upgrade would be another 6 drives and another pool and raidz 2 array, correct?

It doesn't sound like you have it right. You can add another vdev of an additional 6 drives to the current pool to go from 6 drives to 12 drives. That is part of the reason I am using as many drives as I am now.

Original and New addition would be separate volumes?

No. One pool (volume) multiple vdevs.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

Ahh okay, well that deffinitly cleared up a few things. I see your point on staying with the raidz level you plan to keep as well and will start with 6 drives.

As far as other hardware is there any other reason I shouldn't start with what I have? And just for clarification I do plan to upgrade to a server board, processor, and ECC ram after a short while.

 

[Inxsible]

As far as other hardware is there any other reason I shouldn't start with what I have? And just for clarification I do plan to upgrade to a server board, processor, and excited ram after a short while.

Since you are only "trying it out" I would say it's always best to try new things without investing too much into it. You might not find FreeNAS fulfilling all your needs after all.

After the trial period, if you do want to keep it around, then yes, put in all the money you can afford into it.

In short, use the existing hardware you have and see where it takes you.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

In short, use the existing hardware you have and see where it takes you.

Fantastic, this was my original idea and is if nice to have more clarity as this being a feasible way of thinking.

Any other tips or pointers about configuration or specific points of reading??

 

[Inxsible]

Any other tips or pointers about configuration or specific points of reading??

I believe, your initial research and @Chris Moore's posts above have cleared most things up. If not, ask away.

 

[pro lamer]

No. One pool (volume) multiple vdevs.

I thought there are two possibilities: 1) adding a vdev to an existing pool thus making the pool larger and 2) creating a new pool and having two polls in total, each made of a single vdev?

 

[Chris Moore]

2) creating a new pool and having two polls in total, each made of a single vdev?

Why would you want to have two pools? It would require you to make a separate share on the network for the second pool. If you add a vdev to the existing pool, it expands the capacity of the existing pool, which expands the capacity of the existing network share with no interruption or change to services. Adding a second pool would require users to have two different network paths to their storage.

 

[Chris Moore]

PS. You can run multiple pools in a FreeNAS. I have three in mine. One for the main data share, one for the backup of the main and one for iSCSI. These are each configured differently. You can have multiple pools, but only do it if you want them for different purposes. You don't want to segment your storage unless there is a reason to do so as it can make the data more difficult to find.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

It can also be useful to have multiple pools if you want to share them with different groups. But my understand is that yes, both options are possible.

 

[Chris Moore]

It can also be useful to have multiple pools if you want to share them with different groups. But my understand is that yes, both options are possible.

You can create different shares by creating Datasets within a single pool. Unless there is a mechanical reason to do so, there is no need to have separate pools.
In my main NAS, I have a 12 drive (2 vdevs of 6 drives each) pool that is RAIDz2. Each vdev in the main pool has the same drive redundancy factor, but vdev-0 is 4TB drives where vdev-1 is 2TB drives. That is my primary storage pool.

I have a backup pool that everything on the main pool is copied to on a schedule, which uses larger capacity drives in a single 4 drive vdev at RAIDz1. The backup pool is mechanically different because it is RAIDz1 and the drive size is different from anything in the main pool.

Then I have the iSCSI pool that is 16 drives in 8 mirror vdevs. Again, this is mechanically different for performance reasons.

In any of the pools I could have multiple Datasets defined and each Dataset can be shared with it's own properties.

You can even create a share by simply pointing at a particular directory within a Dataset.

 

[Senti_Mentel]

Well thank you for the clarification

 

[Senti_Mentel]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any suggestions on a good brand/model/supplier for 2-4 tb HDD's with a decent price per gigabyte? I know NAS hard drives are recommended, and of course enterprise class drives, but any info on specific deals/recommended brands/models and such? Just looking at the future and maybe getting back up drives as these are my last 6 ES.2 constellations and they weren't cheap when I bought them.

 

[Chris Moore]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any suggestions on a good brand/model/supplier for 2-4 tb HDD's with a decent price per gigabyte? I know NAS hard drives are recommended, and of course enterprise class drives, but any info on specific deals/recommended brands/models and such? Just looking at the future and maybe getting back up drives as these are my last 6 ES.2 constellations and they weren't cheap when I bought them.

One of the forum members, @farmerpling2 , updates this sheet pretty regularly. You might want to take a look:

Disk Price/Performance Analysis Buying Information
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...e-performance-analysis-buying-information.62/

Personally, I bought these drives (a 20 pack) last year and use 6 in my main system, 12 in my backup system and have 2 on the shelf as cold spares. I like them.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178338