Intel vs AMD (and form factor)

[Constantin]

Those Mini-ITX boards embedding those Xeon D and those 10Gbit controllers are pure dope! They are pricey though :-/

Don't want to sound contrarian, but the X10SDV-2C-7TP4F can be had from Newegg or Amazon for $500-$550, new. Compare that to the cost of the C2750D4i board used in the Mini XL which features a Avoton, no SAS, no dual on-board SATADOM, no 10GBe, no dual PCIe 3.0 x 8, etc. in those stores at $400-450. Plus, it's pretty sobering when RAM + Optane will set you back more than the actual motherboard.

Every person who is not familiar with fiber optics technology and may consider going optical in its network should read that last recommendation slowly, many times. Signed: some guy whose employer renovate existing optical LAN.

Having suffered through a somewhat similar situation on the copper side in a poor institution where I volunteer my services, I can only imagine. Lack of documentation is bad enough with older copper networks. With fiber, the complexities are definitely greater. Besides cost, that's why I recommended to use twinax for short distances.

 

[sremick]

I've just taken a quick look at Plex, and it appears that you need to install some special app inside the TV or something, and the TV we have is not even on any list, so I guess this is out of question anyway.

Even if you had a "smart TV" and had the option to use a built-in Plex app, I wouldn't. You're far, far better served by spending the tiny amount even for a used/refurb Roku and using that instead. You'll have a much better experience over time... and then if the Plex app outgrows the hardware, you just upgrade your Roku (vs. upgrading your TV).

 

[Constantin]

Agreed. The TV is an output device. I use a Mac mini for the same purpose as a Roku. The mini does all the OTA recording, transcoding, streaming, etc. and the TV is dedicated to drawing pictures and producing sound via the center speaker. If I upgrade the TV, the Mini just keeps doing what it's doing today and vice versa.

Bundling stuff carries the risk of making the whole bundle obsolete just because one component in the bundle cannot handle the latest fad / firmware / whatever. Plus, I have been unimpressed with the extent to which Vizio and other TV manufacturers have been caught collecting and monetizing their viewer data. That's not to say that the TV might not try to do it anyway, but presenting it just a RF signal and not giving it a connection to the internet makes it a lot harder for the TV to do naughty things.

 

[Arwen]

...
SFP+ is used widely in the industry to plug optical transceivers that translate some electronic signals into optical signals (and reversely) blasted in optical fibers. As @Constantin mentioned it, we're talking campus/factory/hospital grade infrastructure here. Then again, I don't know exactly what you're trying to achieve with your NAS but I'm ready to bet that you won't need optical technology.
...

...
I am pretty confused here, because I was suggested a network card that seemingly only has fiber ports, but then people said I - if I understood it correctly - could swap the ports with RJ-45 ones, and that's where I got hopelessly lost.
No, I do no want any fiber stuff here, my head is one huge baloon as it is :D

@Octopuss, originally there were no SFP+ plugins that supported 10GBase-T. It was a power thing, they simply drew too much power. Today, their are options, though they may come with limitations. Like power or heat disapation.

Here is one. While not as cheap as Optic or Twinax direct attach cables, it has it's advantages;
Mikrotik S+RJ10 6-speed RJ-45 module for up to 10 Gbps

Last, not all 10Gbps Ethernet cards have SFP+ slots. Some may have fixed ports, I'd avoid those for the moment. (Except if they are copper 10GBase-T ports, which is generally backward compatible with 1GBase-T.)

 

[Octopuss]

Even if you had a "smart TV" and had the option to use a built-in Plex app, I wouldn't. You're far, far better served by spending the tiny amount even for a used/refurb Roku and using that instead. You'll have a much better experience over time... and then if the Plex app outgrows the hardware, you just upgrade your Roku (vs. upgrading your TV).

Wait, are you saying I am supposed to get yet another device?
That's not gonna happen
I already have the TV, an amplifier, and a DA converter so I could connect the TV to the amp. It's already a mess of cables.

Either way, does Plex simply require specific application inside a TV or a supported standalone player?

Is there really no other alternative to play stuff from the NAS directly?

 

[sremick]

Wait, are you saying I am supposed to get yet another device?
That's not gonna happen
I already have the TV, an amplifier, and a DA converter so I could connect the TV to the amp. It's already a mess of cables.

Yes, it pulls the "smart" out of your TV into a separate device. Roku would just have a short HDMI to your amp, and power (if you went wifi... I use a wired network connection on mine).

It's a pretty clean setup, and Rokus are tiny. And it's better than needing to backfeed audio from the TV back into the amp because of running a clunky app on the TV itself.

(My setup has a Roku, blu-ray player, mini-PC running Steam and for web browsing, Raspberry Pi running a Plex client, Nintendo Wii, Nintendo Switch, another Raspberry Pi running game emulators, Bluetooth receiver, and I used to have a satellite receiver box but I canceled that this year).

Either way, does Plex simply require specific application inside a TV or a supported standalone player?

Yes. You either use the web interface on a computer, the Win10 app, a Roku, the Android app, the iOS app, or the god-awful slow and clunky (and quickly outdated) built-in app on your TV.

Is there really no other alternative to play stuff from the NAS directly?

The NAS is just a file server. You can play the files on any client that has media-playing capabilities and the ability to access shares using out of the protocols that FreeNAS can offer it up. For example, you could use a media player like VLC running on a PC that accesses Samba shares (or NFS shares perhaps if you're a Linux user). Some people have set up dlna servers to then play to dlna clients... ages ago (pre-FreeNAS) I did this off a Linux box to then play media on the built-in dlna client abilities in my Oppo blu-ray player. It was finicky though which is part of the reason I migrated to Plex (and FreeNAS). Plex simplified things greatly, provided a slick interface with metadata, an easy way to browse the collection and find stuff and auto-origanize it, the ability to play on all sorts of clients besides the blu-ray player, and the ability to stream off-site.

 

[LimeCrusher]

Either way, does Plex simply require specific application inside a TV or a supported standalone player?

@Constantin and @sremick are right here : making things modular is the way to go for the reasons they have cited. Don't be discouraged though. You can use a Raspberry Pi as a Plex client (or whatever else has they said). I heard it was great. My TV actually has a Plex app so I got to plug it to the local network but I could use something else as a Plex client and simply feed my TV an HDMI signal.
This is the strength of Plex: it's modular. You can have your files stored on a NAS that only does file sharing, the server on a machine with some computing power somewhere else in the house and the client wherever else (your tablet, your TV, a device plugged to your TV, a laptop, your phone, whatever).

Plus, I have been unimpressed with the extent to which Vizio and other TV manufacturers have been caught collecting and monetizing their viewer data. That's not to say that the TV might not try to do it anyway, but presenting it just a RF signal and not giving it a connection to the internet makes it a lot harder for the TV to do naughty things.

Good practice dictates indeed that those smart pieces of shit should not access the Internet whatsoever. Mine is unfortunately for some other reasons at the moment :-(

 

[sremick]

This is the strength of Plex: it's modular. You can have your files stored on a NAS that only does file sharing, the server on a machine with some computing power somewhere else in the house

Admittedly, this is a more-common setup and there are pros to doing it that way (more modular, can go with a lesser-powered NAS, can run PMS on a server OS that you're more-familiar with, etc). When I went with my build, I knew it'd be living in the living room and would almost exclusively be a NAS for Plex, so I envisioned an all-in-one "Plex box". So I over-engineered the NAS, focused on small size and quietness. This reduced duplicated components, kept things simpler, takes up less space, etc. So I just have this rather small, silent black cube (inspiration for my avatar image, actually) sitting in a corner under an end-table that most people don't even notice is there. It just needs power, network, and a USB cable to the UPS to signal FreeNAS to do a clean shutdown if the power is out for more than 5 mins.

If I outgrow the box and need to rebuild, it'll be part of also moving wiring into the basement (going to wire up the whole house and have a patch panel and switch down there) in which case size and loudness won't be constraints because the servers will go down there too. Maybe I'll even go rack-mounted.

 

[Octopuss]

Bah, that sucks.
I just hoped there was a simple way to install some sort of DLNA server just like on Synology (I mean in there it's just a plugin as well) and I'd just use the TV's interface.

So how does this work?
I connect another physical player, and what do I do with it? I presume these come with a remote control. That probably connects to a TV via HDMI cable, and the TV acts like a monitor for the player?
I only hope these players have both digital and analog outputs so I could at least ditch the DAC I have between the TV and the amp... The amp is just an amp, not a receiver of any kind, so it only has analogue inputs/outputs.

 

[sremick]

I just hoped there was a simple way to install some sort of DLNA server

There is, for the adjusted definition of "simple" appropriate for the assumed skill level for anyone willing to take on a DIY NAS solution like FreeNAS. ;)

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/how-to-install-minidlna-into-iocage-freenas-11-2.68978/

just like on Synology (I mean in there it's just a plugin as well) and I'd just use the TV's interface.

It does not surprise me that there's no FreeNAS plug-in. DLNA is rather clunky and archaic.

So how does this work? I connect another physical player, and what do I do with it?

Install the Plex "channel" and connect to your Plex server. Obviously you want to have your PMS functional first and tested via a web browser.

I presume these come with a remote control.

Yes. I suggest visiting the Roku page to get your questions answered.

That probably connects to a TV via HDMI cable, and the TV acts like a monitor for the player?

As god intended. "Smart" TVs are anything but, and a scourge on consumers and the AV world in-general.

I only hope these players have both digital and analog outputs so I could at least ditch the DAC I have between the TV and the amp...

Most do not. We've been in a digital age for quite some time now. Things are kept digital until the "last mile" from your AVR to your speakers. If you are concerned about cables and simplicity, constraining yourself to analog audio and managing separate connections and analog paths is going to seriously handicap your options and run counter to your overall goals. Sounds like you might want to look into a receiver/AVR upgrade as well.

 

[Octopuss]

It does not surprise me that there's no FreeNAS plug-in. DLNA is rather clunky and archaic.

But it just works. I mean, I might not be using a TV "properly", but I just open the interface (crappy, sure, but whatever...), click maybe five times, select a film, and watch it. That's it. It just works. I don't understand what could possibly be wrong about that. And that's what DLNA allows me to do. Maybe I am missing something? I honestly don't get it.

Roku isn't even being sold in my country as far as I can tell and it appears that I need to create yet another account in order to be able to use this So I would need some useless Plex account and even more useless Roku account. And the player cost around $100? Jeez, no way

I understand people create elaborate home cinema setups because they enjoy it, but I just want to sit on the couch once a week and play a film, that's it :D

 

[sremick]

Roku isn't even being sold in my country as far as I can tell

. So go with an nVidia Shield. Or an Apple TV. Or a cheap mini-PC that you can launch a web browser on and connect to your server that way. Or build a Raspberri Pi and install the Plex client on that. There are numerous solutions and options.

and it appears that I need to create yet another account in order to be able to use this

If the concept of creating an acount is a serious impediment and barrier for your project, I'm not sure I can offer you much more help.

And the player cost around $100? Jeez, no way

Perhaps the much-higher costs associated with building a reliable FreeNAS server won't be for you, then. But neither a Roku nor other Plex player options need to cost $100. I've bought several refurbs for $40 or less. A Raspberri Pi is like $35. An old computer you might have lying around would be free. Plex is free (you don't have to pay for a "PlexPass"... it just gives more features. Many people don't get one and are perfectly happy).

I understand people create elaborate home cinema setups because they enjoy it, but I just want to sit on the couch once a week and play a film, that's it :D

Perhaps you'd be better served by just loading discs into your DVD player and sticking to that. It does not seem "DIY" suits your style. Simplicity on the front end comes from effort on the back end. If you aren't willing to expend the effort (or pay someone to do all the work for you) then you won't find the nirvana you're seeking with a higher-tech media streaming solution along with a homebrew-DIY NAS hardware/software solution.

I already provided you alternate info on how to use DLNA if you're wedded to that and unwilling to do anything else. I also provided info about how even that isn't necessary and you can just use file shares and any computer with a media player. I'm not sure what more info can be provided for you. You seem fixated on problems and not finding (or accepting) solutions, and overly critical of actual solutions to your problems which aren't nearly as difficult, complicated, or expensive as you are making them out to be. I don't think I can be of any more service to you. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[LimeCrusher]

Bah, that sucks.
I just hoped there was a simple way to install some sort of DLNA server just like on Synology (I mean in there it's just a plugin as well) and I'd just use the TV's interface.

As @sremick said: any file sharing done by your NAS on your local network that your TV can see (SMB share presumably) will do the same job than DLNA, provided your TV is connected to your local network (which I assume, is).

I only hope these players have both digital and analog outputs so I could at least ditch the DAC I have between the TV and the amp... The amp is just an amp, not a receiver of any kind, so it only has analogue inputs/outputs.

I was surprised your amplifier does not have an optical audio input but this is Hi-Fi equipment after all. You said you have a DAC between the TV and the amp. I presume the DAC is connected to the amp with RCA cables but how is it connected to the TV? Optical cable I presume?
Look, if you have a Raspberry Pi connected to your network (to the NAS hosting your files and the Plex server) on one end, acting as a Plex client, and connected to your TV by HDMI, then video and sound go to your TV as digital signals. Get the audio signal out of the TV then as digital or analog and feed it to your amplifier.

To sum up, you have two options in my mind:

• create a file share from your NAS that your TV can access and use your TV interface,
• use a Plex server on your NAS (or any other computer on your network), get yourself a device that can act as a Plex client (as people said, whatever will do, Roku, Raspberry Pi, NVidia Shield, whatever computer that supports it) and plug that device into the HDMI input of your TV. Your audio setup should not be impacted at all.

Two things I want to highlight:

• Simplicity on the front end comes from effort on the back end. If you aren't willing to expend the effort (or pay someone to do all the work for you) then you won't find the nirvana you're seeking with a higher-tech media streaming solution along with a homebrew-DIY NAS hardware/software solution.

• There is a good reason (or many?) people around here use Plex so heavily.

 

[Octopuss]

I honestly have no idea what the damn TV is capable of. Maybe it only works with DLNA and is not able to see actual network folders.
I also had to choose the one with the crappiest and laggiest interface humankind ever designed. Yay.

Yup, the TV has optical output, so that connects to a simple little DAC, which plugs into the amp's RCAs.

I'll keep an eye out for used Roku Ultras on Ebay I guess. The previous generation seems to be reasonably priced despite looking absolutely identical (4660 vs 4661 models). There's 4640 with optical output, but I am not sure how different it otherwise is and if I want it.
One thing that surprised me about Roku is the lackluster remote control.

NV Shield looks like more than I need plus too expensive.
Raspberry Pi is something I need to put together, like LEGO? Looks confusing.

I'll google around a little to check other alternatives.
Option 1 doesn't seem plausible due to the complicated way of installing DLNA someone linked here.

 

[LimeCrusher]

Maybe it only works with DLNA and is not able to see actual network folders.

I would be very surprised by this. You browse folders somehow with the "crappy" interface so it should have some networking.

Yup, the TV has optical output, so that connects to a simple little DAC, which plugs into the amp's RCAs.

Fine. Don't change that, that's another problem.

Raspberry Pi is something I need to put together, like LEGO? Looks confusing.

A Raspberry Pi is an electronic board with an ARM SOC on board and all the necessary connectivity. It is a full computer in itself. You need a mini-USB power supply rated for 5A (or even less?), and a mini-SD card on which you install the software. For information, the Plex client is RasPlex.

Option 1 doesn't seem plausible due to the complicated way of installing DLNA someone linked here.

Then go for the second option but read my first point again. I'm not even sure you need DLNA in the first place.

 

[Octopuss]

I played with the TV for a bit and it indeed only supports DLNA. There's no other option anywhere. It's most certainly unable to do folder browsing of any kind.
Thankfully I don't really care, because it works with my current Synology box and it will be a while before I get all the parts and get the new system going.

Raspberry Pi is powerful enough to do transcoding?

 

[LimeCrusher]

I played with the TV for a bit and it indeed only supports DLNA. There's no other option anywhere. It's most certainly unable to do folder browsing of any kind.

I thought you browsed your files from the TV interface? Your Synology sets up a SMB share that you access from a Windows computer for instance isn't it? Can't you see that share from the TV? Try to disable DLNA maybe.

Raspberry Pi is powerful enough to do transcoding?

The Pi acts as a client. It does not do the heavy workload like transcoding. This is done by the server.

 

[Octopuss]

When I select network as a source, it detects the NAS, but when DLNA service (Media server plugin in Synology's case) is not running on the NAS, it doesn't open it at all.

What I don't understand is how can the menus be so laggy on a TV that has multicore CPU in it :D That's an entirely different story though.

 

[Linkman]

A Raspberry Pi is an electronic board with an ARM SOC on board and all the necessary connectivity. It is a full computer in itself. You need a mini-USB power supply rated for 5A (or even less?), and a mini-SD card on which you install the software. For information, the Plex client is RasPlex.

5V 2.5A minimum RPi 3 models

 

[Linkman]

I'm using something similar though not quite as tiny as the Lenovo Tiny, I wanted a DVD drive for ripping our physical media. It's an HP EliteDesk 800 G1, 8GB RAM, Core i5 (Haswell era), with a 32GB mSATA for boot/OS, and currently a 60GB SSD for media. It's a Dockerized Plex Media Server. Sips power, is very quiet, and enough CPU for Live TV and DVR. Less than $140 shipped from eBay (except it came with the 32GB mSATA and a 500GB HDD, I swapped the HDD for the SSD).