Intel vs AMD (and form factor)

Constantin

Vampire Pig
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,829

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
Ahh, ok. Thanks. That's handy.
 

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
I've just had another thought.
Do I actually want a board with only gigabit ports (two in X11SSM-F's case)? Sure, I presume FreeNAS allows creating a bond, but that's still not too much of a difference. I need to eventually upgrade to higher port count switch, and why not go with something that has new multi-gigabit ports?

I guess I'd be looking at a completely different price tag then... But I really want to build something that will last me a LONG time this time.
 

demon

Contributor
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
117
I've just had another thought.
Do I actually want a board with only gigabit ports (two in X11SSM-F's case)? Sure, I presume FreeNAS allows creating a bond, but that's still not too much of a difference. I need to eventually upgrade to higher port count switch, and why not go with something that has new multi-gigabit ports?

I guess I'd be looking at a completely different price tag then... But I really want to build something that will last me a LONG time this time.

Boards with integrated 10GbE NICs are available... but there’s no guarantee they’ll be ones that will work well with FreeNAS, and also, you can readily get a PCIe-based 10GbE adapter when you have that need. The MicroATX boards still have 3-4 PCIe slots each, unlike MiniITX boards, which physically only have room for one PCIe slot. Also, you did say clearly early on you wanted to keep costs low. SuperMicro boards with built in 10GbE ports cost about US$140-180 more.
 

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
Oh, if 10Gb cards are that easy to come by 2nd hand then the problem is solved.
 

Constantin

Vampire Pig
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,829
Chelsio 520 series seems to be the private-label part that iXsystems used way back when I bought mine. When in doubt, buy the private-label part and help support FreeNAS.

FWIW, I'm considering the X10SDV-2C-7TP4F from Supermicro. 2x10Gbit SFP+ support on board, relatively low power consumption, high potential clock speed for SMB happiness, IPMI on board, LSI 16-channel SAS controller, 2xSATADOM ports, one m.2 port at PCIe 3.0x4 and one SATA m.2 port at PCIe 2.0x1. Seems like a pretty ideal SoHo rig.

However, I'm waffling due to the expense and the marginal improvement over the C2750d4i in my use case is likely not worth it.
 
Last edited:

demon

Contributor
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
117

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461

Constantin

Vampire Pig
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,829

demon

Contributor
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
117
I also found Intel X550-T1, which looks pretty neat.

I don't know that Intel 10GbE NICs are as well supported on FreeNAS as the Chelsios are. If you really want to go for 10GbE, you'll want to carefully research what's known to work; from what little I do know on the matter, the Chelsios are known to be well supported, so they'd be your best bet. It's what I'd go with, anyway, if I were going to throw money at 10GbE gear.
 

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
If I've identified it correctly, mine is the 520-SO-CR sub-variety. Features 2 SFP+ ports. You add either twinax, optical, or copper transceivers.
Wait, what? What are those? You can swap the ports on the card or something?
 

Jessep

Patron
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
379

Constantin

Vampire Pig
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,829
SFP+ is great because the 10GBe optical transceivers out there (used OEM or new generic) are really inexpensive and connecting long distances via fiber is relatively simple; just keep track of what type fiber and transceivers you’re using. Plus, the stuff is interference and lightning proof, which is a consideration for campus-wide networks (potentially lose the link but not the attached equipment).

For short distances, Twinax cables usually make the most sense. They’re inexpensive and relatively simple.

The copper option is becoming more popular as more routers and computers begin to feature 10GBe RJ45 ports and the cost and heat / power requirements are decreasing.

Per the spec, copper 10GBe cannot handle distances over 100m whereas fiber can get into the kilometers. A more recent copper flavor called nbase-t also allows copper to operate at 2.5/5/10Gbit/s, falling back to slower speeds if interference / cable limitations, etc require it. Nbase-t even potentially allows gigabit+ operation on CAT5e cables, which is a benefit for sites with legacy wiring plants.

Thus, I expect Nbase-t to continue to grow in importance as next generation WiFi APs become popular (they will be able to use the bandwidth). But I use a combination of fiber and twinax via SFP+ in my own home.
 

kdragon75

Wizard
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
2,457
If you have a stick of memory that starts to fail (it's not super common, but it absolutely can happen), you're potentially one scrub away from major, unrecoverable data loss.
This is untrue. Stop spreading fud.
 

sremick

Patron
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
323
Just wanted to chime in here with my build. Check my sig.

It's not modern hardware, but it gives you an idea of what's possible with mini-ITX, lots of drives and in a tiny form factor in a box that would be acceptable for "hidden in plain sight".
 

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_form-factor_pluggable_transceiver

Yes you can in effect change the port type. Copper based ones use a lot of power and can exceed the specs however.

Optical to Optical are the most reliable and compatible.

Just go to www.fs.com and get cheap transceivers and cables as needed.
Sorry, I feel like an idiot now.
Those "ports" use some power by themselves?
Also on the site you linked, I can't find anything with RJ45 but one product that cost $200. That certainly isn't something I'd buy.
 

LimeCrusher

Explorer
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
87
I am still not entirely sure what transcoding is to be honest. I understand what it supposedly does, but I have no idea if either my NAS or the TV is doing it and when.
I ditched this idea anyway though. It's a shame, but if it wouldn't work too well with FreeNAS, what can I do. And since it's apparently the best software out there, I am not interested in scouting for alternatives.
Transcoding is the action of changing the video/audio/resolution format/codec of a video file when the original format (stored on your NAS for instance) cannot be played natively by the device you're streaming to. This operation is a little CPU intensive. As a rule of thumb, consider about 2000 of Passmark score to transcode a 1080p file.
Media servers (such as Plex) are popular among NAS users and since you never specified how you wanted to use your NAS (which should be really clearly stated), I assumed you may want to host a media server as well.

Yes, the shipping is a bunny, and on top of that it seems like there are no used boards available either. All of the Supermicro boards I found on Ebay were brand new, which sucks (and I kind of settled on X11SSM-F, which is not exactly super old too, but I just don't feel like old sockets).
edit: Noone seems to be selling any of this used over here. It's not like Ebay is full of it either. I guess people are holding onto the server hardware for a LONG time before they let it go.
The Supermicro X11SSM-F is a great board, very popular among FreeNAS users (I am seriously considering it myself). But it is a recent board. Few chances you'll find it second hand for cheap. Look at X9 or X10 boards from Supermicro. They have been popular and many people still use them today. Check @Ericloewe hardware guide (@Chris Moore signature -> Useful Links) if you haven't already. Also, you probably need to do some more reading about FreeNAS, the hardware and storage strategies, check the forum resources section and check again @Chris Moore signature, he has done a great job gathering everything.
Also, check this shop, they're in Bavaria, not too fare from Czech Republic after all! They have lot's of great hardware and their prices are pretty decent.

FWIW, I'm considering the X10SDV-2C-7TP4F from Supermicro. 2x10Gbit SFP+ support on board, relatively low power consumption, high potential clock speed for SMB happiness, IPMI on board, LSI 16-channel SAS controller, 2xSATADOM ports, one m.2 port at PCIe 3.0x4 and one SATA m.2 port at PCIe 2.0x1. Seems like a pretty ideal SoHo rig.
Those Mini-ITX boards embedding those Xeon D and those 10Gbit controllers are pure dope! They are pricey though :-/

Just wanted to chime in here with my build. Check my sig.
I love it. So compact and yet so productive. Those AsRock boards are hard to find at reasonable prices here in Europe though :-( They're more expensive than µATX boards with similar (or more) features and I can't find any second-hand on Ebay at reasonable prices.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I feel like an idiot now.
Those "ports" use some power by themselves?
Also on the site you linked, I can't find anything with RJ45 but one product that cost $200. That certainly isn't something I'd buy.
SFP+ is used widely in the industry to plug optical transceivers that translate some electronic signals into optical signals (and reversely) blasted in optical fibers. As @Constantin mentioned it, we're talking campus/factory/hospital grade infrastructure here. Then again, I don't know exactly what you're trying to achieve with your NAS but I'm ready to bet that you won't need optical technology.

SFP+ is great because the 10GBe optical transceivers out there (used OEM or new generic) are really inexpensive and connecting long distances via fiber is relatively simple; just keep track of what type fiber and transceivers you’re using.
Every person who is not familiar with fiber optics technology and may consider going optical in its network should read that last recommendation slowly, many times. Signed: some guy whose employer renovate existing optical LAN.
 

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
Transcoding is the action of changing the video/audio/resolution format/codec of a video file when the original format (stored on your NAS for instance) cannot be played natively by the device you're streaming to. This operation is a little CPU intensive. As a rule of thumb, consider about 2000 of Passmark score to transcode a 1080p file.
Media servers (such as Plex) are popular among NAS users and since you never specified how you wanted to use your NAS (which should be really clearly stated), I assumed you may want to host a media server as well.
I definitely DO use the NAS for this purpose. On Synology, I just enabled DLNA server or something, and then simply play films on the tv with the builtin crappy interface. Seems to work just fine. It's all either 4k remuxed stuff that's in the original HEVC, or 1080p encodes in x264. Both seem to play just fine and seeing as the lower end Celeron in the Synology box is probably not even close to 50% usage, there probably is no transcoding going on in my case.

The Supermicro X11SSM-F is a great board, very popular among FreeNAS users (I am seriously considering it myself). But it is a recent board. Few chances you'll find it second hand for cheap. Look at X9 or X10 boards from Supermicro. They have been popular and many people still use them today. Check @Ericloewe hardware guide (@Chris Moore signature -> Useful Links) if you haven't already. Also, you probably need to do some more reading about FreeNAS, the hardware and storage strategies, check the forum resources section and check again @Chris Moore signature, he has done a great job gathering everything.
Also, check this shop, they're in Bavaria, not too fare from Czech Republic after all! They have lot's of great hardware and their prices are pretty decent.
I just assume the newer CPUs use less power, which is something I prefer.
The older boards I am not sure about because I can't tell what I'd be losing with the older chipsets compared to say C236.
More importantly though, it seems like with X10 boards I wouldn't be able to use v6 Xeons, and that would suck in future.

SFP+ is used widely in the industry to plug optical transceivers that translate some electronic signals into optical signals (and reversely) blasted in optical fibers. As @Constantin mentioned it, we're talking campus/factory/hospital grade infrastructure here. Then again, I don't know exactly what you're trying to achieve with your NAS but I'm ready to bet that you won't need optical technology.
I am pretty confused here, because I was suggested a network card that seemingly only has fiber ports, but then people said I - if I understood it correctly - could swap the ports with RJ-45 ones, and that's where I got hopelessly lost.
No, I do no want any fiber stuff here, my head is one huge baloon as it is :D
 

LimeCrusher

Explorer
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
87
I definitely DO use the NAS for this purpose. On Synology, I just enabled DLNA server or something, and then simply play films on the tv with the builtin crappy interface. Seems to work just fine. It's all either 4k remuxed stuff that's in the original HEVC, or 1080p encodes in x264. Both seem to play just fine and seeing as the lower end Celeron in the Synology box is probably not even close to 50% usage, there probably is no transcoding going on in my case.
Ok, this is an important point as transcoding is CPU hungry and you may want to account for that in your build.
In a nutshell, using the Plex vocabulary, either your TV is capable of reading a given file, then you're doing Direct Play, or it can, up to a repackaging, then you're doing Direct Stream (light CPU requirement), or it cannot at all and you need to transcode. It's probably the same using Synology technology.
One important thing: Synology might be using the Quick Sync Video (QSV) feature of the Intel iGPU to do video transcoding by leveraging the power of the iGPU. This feature is not available in the Plex server of FreeNAS as of know even if it seems that people are working on it: Feature #33399 and FreeNAS 11.2 announcement.
 

Octopuss

Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
461
I've just taken a quick look at Plex, and it appears that you need to install some special app inside the TV or something, and the TV we have is not even on any list, so I guess this is out of question anyway.
The media server on Synology is a simple DLNA service or something, and I thought there would be something similar in FreeNAS.

I'm getting a little offtopic here, but I figured I might as well use the thread for all my general questions.
 
Top