Intel vs AMD (and form factor)

[Octopuss]

Hi.
I might start buiding a NAS as a replacement for Synology box I am in the process of getting rid of, and I am trying to figure out the hardware basics.
Primarily, Intel vs AMD.
A mini-ITX motherboard with integrated Celeron J4105 doesn't cost much, and the CPU is supposedly perfectly capable of driving a home NAS even with some extra apps running on it. It is soldered to the MB though, so no way to upgrade.
What of AMD then? A friend is building something different based on Athlon 200GE. That's only dual core, but supposedly faster than quad core Celeron. It's also a bit more expensive, but upgradable.

What do you think?

 

[Chris Moore]

There is a hardware guide in the resources section of the Forum. The problem with ITX systems is that they are too small.
What brand of CPU should not make the difference as much as the features it and the system board will offer you. For example, you don't need integrated audio on the system board and the system will not need a powerful GPU as FreeNAS only make a text console. Then, the system needs support for ECC memory, which is not available in every system, so you need to know to look for that.
If you have specific hardware in mind, we can look at the specs.

 

[Octopuss]

I only have two drives, so size isn't really a problem.
But wait, I thought FreeNAS had a GUI of sorts? It is controlled from command line? Ugh... I might not be in the right place then :(

 

[Chris Moore]

The GUI is presented in a web browser. The rendering of that is done by your computer, not by the NAS. The local console on the FreeNAS is just text and all the significant configuration of the system is done in the web GUI.
You might want to look at the documentation a little.

 

[Octopuss]

Well, I looked at the basics, but you confused me. I get it now.

Is the ECC thing a hard requirement?

 

[Chris Moore]

It's highly recommended for reliability reasons.

 

[Octopuss]

Ok, thanks.
Not needed for home purposes then. Synology doesn't have it either and it works just fine.

 

[Octopuss]

That being said, if anyone is aware of a mini-ITX motherboard with ECC support that doesn't cost a kidney, I'm all ears.

 

[Chris Moore]

Ok, thanks.
Not needed for home purposes then. Synology doesn't have it either and it works just fine.

Synology doesn't use ZFS. If you are not interested in ZFS, there are a lot of other options out there. Just don't go with Synology. they are total junk.

 

[Chris Moore]

Not needed for home purposes then.

PS. Don't put words in my mouth. ECC is always needed. I have it in all of my servers at home.

 

[Octopuss]

Synology doesn't use ZFS. If you are not interested in ZFS, there are a lot of other options out there. Just don't go with Synology. they are total junk.

I should had bought QNAP when I was upgrading the old Synology box. I didn't, and I wasted money on something that's been annoying the living hell out of me since. Oh well.
I'm thinking about building something myself this time, so I'm here.

PS. Don't put words in my mouth. ECC is always needed. I have it in all of my servers at home.

I didn't. That is my interpretation.
If Synology doesn't have it and people use it without problems, then it's most probably not needed at all. I've had two different boxes running 24/7 and neither crashed once, so I am assuming all this ECC thing is something blown out of proportions.


edit: Oh you mean ECC being "soft" requirement for ZFS? Right. I see.

 

[demon]

I didn't. That is my interpretation.

I think he's telling you your interpretation is mistaken.

If Synology doesn't have it and people use it without problems, then it's most probably not needed at all. I've had two different boxes running 24/7 and neither crashed once, so I am assuming all this ECC thing is something blown out of proportions.

Yeah, I don't think you understand. ZFS is very different from most other filesystems. If you have a stick of memory that starts to fail (it's not super common, but it absolutely can happen), you're potentially one scrub away from major, unrecoverable data loss. There's no fsck for ZFS. It trusts that your memory won't flip bits behind its back. (Technically, there's a special debug mode in ZFS that can turn on extra checks for it, but it would be a performance ruiner. It's not practical for production use.)

The thing is with ECC, single bit errors would be fixed, and multi-bit errors would just halt the system, saving your data. Without ECC, you won't know until your pool is a smoking ruin. We can't make you go with ECC, but there are very, very good reasons why everyone will tell you "you should use ECC" - it's because you should use ECC. Assuming you care about your data. Otherwise, why spend the money to build a FreeNAS box?

 

[Octopuss]

I get it now. Pretty complicated (not to understand, but to find the hardware).

 

[Octopuss]

I've just re-evaluated possible placement of the box and it seems like micro-ATX would be doable as well.
The question is, would I be able to build something for €250-300? Used parts obviously.

 

[demon]

Possibly you could get a SuperMicro X11SSL-F board and a Pentium G4560? That'd get you 2 cores and 4 threads, which a) supports ECC, and b) would be plenty of horsepower for a mostly storage-only workload. The board price is reasonable for a server board, and the CPU is inexpensive but fairly meaty. You'd just have to pick RAM off SuperMicro's verified list.

If you order off eBay, you might be able to get a SuperMicro X10SLL-F and a Pentium G3250 (2 core/2 thread) that might do the business. Then you'd be in DDR3 ECC RAM territory.

I don't know how AMD's support is for ECC though.

 

[Constantin]

Your best bet might be a used pre-built system. I recently saw a C2750D4I-based system on ebay for $430, for example (it was $380 but required $50 for shipping). Because I'm a fan of Z2 or Z3 arrays for my usage needs, I'd go for a case with at least 6 drive bays, if possible. Ditto ECC RAM also, as there is little point in getting a "perfect" file system and then proceed to fill it with potentially faulty data (via the RAM sticks).

 

[Octopuss]

Possibly you could get a SuperMicro X11SSL-F board and a Pentium G4560?

I googled some, and it seemed like only Xeons supported ECC memory.
The whole Intel's CPU lineup cannot possibly get any more confusing!

Is there any significant difference between C232 and C236 for me when I don't intend to go higher than four drives? (if ever, I'm happy with two in RAID1 right now)

 

[Chris Moore]

The whole Intel's CPU lineup cannot possibly get any more confusing!

Yes, they are fantastically bad at making it clear what you need to buy. It gives me a job though.

The question is, would I be able to build something for €250-300? Used parts obviously.

If you were in the US, I would say it could be done easily, but I can't say what the availability of parts is in the Czech republic. I know from other posts by other members, it is sometimes difficult to source the parts we suggest.
Here is a list of components that I have used before and I know work well.

I used a system board like this for more than two years to run my NAS:

Supermicro X9SCM-F LGA 1155/Socket H2 DDR3 Motherboard with Heatsink/Fan & I/O Shield - - US $49.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352558745024

You have to get components that are compatible, but you can do everything you need to do with this board.
However, I would attach the data drives to a SAS controller instead of connecting them to the system board.
SATA drives work perfectly on SAS controllers:

LSI 6Gbps SAS HBA LSI 9211-8i P20 IT Mode ZFS FreeNAS unRAID 375-3640-02 - - US $56.55
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163391043203
One of those and a set of cables:

2x-Mini-SAS-to-4-SATA-SFF-8087-Multi-Lane-Forward-Breakout-Internal-Cable - - US $12.89
https://www.ebay.com/itm/372255907421
will handle 8 drives no problem.

8GB-Memory-RAM-for-SuperMicro-X9-Series-X9SCM-F-X9SCL-F-O-X9SCD-F-X9SCM-X9SC - - US $79.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163130855012

Intel Xeon E3-1230 v2 Quad-Core Socket 1155 (LGA1155) CPU Processor SR0P4 3.3GHz - - US $73.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362523972715

That is $272.42 of parts and it gives you a server grade system board with a quad core Xeon CPU, 8GB of ECC memory and a SAS controller to run the data drives. Still need a heatsync for the CPU and a few other bits, but it is just an idea.

You would still need the case, power supply and hard drives also; and you might be able to get along without the SAS HBA, depending on the number of drives you want to use. See if you can find these parts, let us know if you need or want some additional guidance.

 

[demon]

I googled some, and it seemed like only Xeons supported ECC memory.

Nope. The Pentiums and i3s (NOT the i5s or i7s or i9s though!) do support ECC. Please reference Intel Ark for an authoritative yes/no on ECC support. For example:

https://ark.intel.com/products/97143/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G4560-3M-Cache-3-50-GHz-

clearly indicates it does support ECC. So long as you're using a server-class (E23x chipset) board that has ECC RAM support.

The whole Intel's CPU lineup cannot possibly get any more confusing!

You are not wrong.

Is there any significant difference between C232 and C236 for me when I don't intend to go higher than four drives? (if ever, I'm happy with two in RAID1 right now)

The C232 only provides two SATA 3 (6.0 Gbps) ports, while the rest are SATA 2 (3.0 Gbps). Mechanical hard drives only go fast enough to saturate SATA 3 when they're blasting data out of their cache, so practically speaking it's not really a major concern. C236 provides 6 SATA 3 ports, by contrast, but again, considering you'd be using mechanical drives, I highly doubt it'd make a notable difference performance wise.

 

[Chris Moore]

PS. There are less expensive processors that will work with the board I suggested.