In need of advices for my first FreeNAS Setup

[Zuldar]

Hello everyone,

I've finally come around to build my own box.
Here are my goals :

• PLEX Media Center (up to 1080p streaming and storing)
• Backup solution

At the moment, I have around 7TB of media that will find their way on the server.
In addition, 100GB of critical data (which is already backed up offsite).

Here is what I put together so far :

CPU: Intel Core i3-4170 3.7GHz Dual-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Supermicro X10SL7-F Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: 4x Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: 2x Western Digital Red 6TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Case Fan: Fractal Design HF12-BK 83.4 CFM 120mm Fan

+ USB Flash Drive for boot device (USB 2.0 or USB 3.0)

And now my questions :

1. I've used different resources to pick the parts. Are there any inconsistencies and/or known compatibility issues between the parts? Keeping in mind my objectives (media server+backup), am I missing anything? Am I overkill on anything?
2. About the storage, as I said, around 7TB of data is already waiting to be transferred. After reading, it seems like mirror vdevs will be better and easier than RAIDZ2 if I plan to add more storage in the future (which will be the case). I went with 2x 6TB which is obviously not enough for my actual needs but I can't decide what to do here. There are 8 trays in the case, is it better to start with 4TB drives in pairs, build up to 8x4, then upgrade, or go straight to larger disks (keeping in mind this will be a long term project) ? Is there a go-to way of figuring this out except what I plan on doing in the future?
3. I feel like I overkilled it with RAM and PSU. For RAM I based my calculations on the recommendations + the ballpark of 1GB per TB of storage. As for the PSU, I used this topic that gave me a ~550W estimation and this tool in which the result were around 230W. The part picker says 180W, now I know that's very low but should I stick with 650W or should I go midway with something like 450W (taking into account that I will probably fill the box up with more HDDs as time passes) ?
4. At first, I wanted to use an SSD as the boot device but I read USB Flash Drives can suffice. Do they really?
   • If the answer is yes, then is there any benefit in picking USB 3.0 over USB 2.0?
   • If the answer is no, I set my sights on the Samsung 850 pro. Should I include two to mirror the boot device also? (The question applies for USB Flash Drives as well)
5. What should I expect in terms of noise and heat? Will three fans be enough?

Thank you for taking the time to read everything and thanks in advance for your answers !

 

[Spearfoot]

And now my questions :

1. I've used different resources to pick the parts. Are there any inconsistencies and/or known compatibility issues between the parts? Keeping in mind my objectives (media server+backup), am I missing anything? Am I overkill on anything?
2. About the storage, as I said, around 7TB of data is already waiting to be transferred. After reading, it seems like mirror vdevs will be better and easier than RAIDZ2 if I plan to add more storage in the future (which will be the case). I went with 2x 6TB which is obviously not enough for my actual needs but I can't decide what to do here. There are 8 trays in the case, is it better to start with 4TB drives in pairs, build up to 8x4, then upgrade, or go straight to larger disks (keeping in mind this will be a long term project) ? Is there a go-to way of figuring this out except what I plan on doing in the future?
3. I feel like I overkilled it with RAM and PSU. For RAM I based my calculations on the recommendations + the ballpark of 1GB per TB of storage. As for the PSU, I used this topic that gave me a ~550W estimation and this tool in which the result were around 230W. The part picker says 180W, now I know that's very low but should I stick with 650W or should I go midway with something like 450W (taking into account that I will probably fill the box up with more HDDs as time passes) ?
4. At first, I wanted to use an SSD as the boot device but I read USB Flash Drives can suffice. Do they really?
   • If the answer is yes, then is there any benefit in picking USB 3.0 over USB 2.0?
   • If the answer is no, I set my sights on this SSD. Should I include two to mirror the boot device also? (The question applies for USB Flash Drives as well)
5. What should I expect in terms of noise and heat? Will three fans be enough?

Thank you for taking the time to read everything and thanks in advance for your answers !

Hello, @Zuldar, and welcome to the forums!

Regarding your questions:

1. I don't see any problems or incompatibilities with your proposed system. I own the X10SL7-F system and it serves me well. However, note that it's limited to 32GB of RAM, unlike the newer systems available. This may not be of concern to you, as 32GB is plenty of memory for most home users.
   
2. Ideally, you would install 8 drives to begin with, in a RAIDZ2 array, disk size to be determined by you after taking a good hard look at your expected capacity needs, and then probably doubling that value! I've included links to a couple of RAID calculators to help you with this. RAIDZ2 would yield the best space efficiency (75%) in that you would only be using 2 drives for parity; mirrors only deliver 50% space efficiency. Also, keep in mind that FreeNAS uses ZFS, a copy-on-write file system which needs free capacity to maintain reasonable performance. Realistically, you don't want to exceed much more than 60% of your space capacity. So, to store 7TB of data you need at least 12TB of available capacity. If you can't start out with a full complement of 8 drives and instead want to add mirrored vdevs to your pool as time goes by, then I suggest buying large drives to begin with (i.e., 6TB or 8TB). There's really no point in starting with smaller drives.
3. I don't see any over-kill w/ respect to RAM or PSU. FreeNAS loves RAM; the more the better, especially if you plan on filling the system with 8 large HDDs; but you could feasibly start with 16GB now, and add the second 16GB later, as you add additional drives. If you plan on running 8 drives eventually, you should purchase the 650W PSU, IMHO. I use a 750W PSU in my main FreeNAS server, which has 7 HDDs and 3 SSDs.
4. I booted from USB flash drives for over a year before switching to SSDs. The choice is yours; but if you choose USB, choose USB 2.0 drives, as many users report problems of over-heating and failing with USB 3.0 devices. I used the Sandisk Cruzer Fit 16 and 32GB USB 2.0 flash drives with no problems. You may also install two of them and tell FreeNAS to use its mirrored installation feature. If you chose to boot from an SSD, be aware that you don't need much space for FreeNAS, so 32GB drives are fine, and less expensive, too. You can use the mirrored installation feature with a pair of SSDs, too. In either case, if you make regular backups of your configuration file you can easily recover from a failed boot device.
   
5. It's hard to say how loud your system will be, but the Fractal Design cases are known for being relatively quiet. Whatever case you buy, you will want to insure that you have good air-flow over the HDDs. I use a Fractal Design Define R4 case and installed both fans in the front of the case to insure good HDD cooling.

Here are two RAID calculators to help you in your analysis:

https://jsfiddle.net/Biduleohm/hfqdpbLm/10/embedded/result/
https://www.servethehome.com/raid-calculator/

Good luck!

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

Are there any inconsistencies and/or known compatibility issues between the parts?

At first glance, it looks fine.

went with 2x 6TB which is obviously not enough for my actual needs

Don't start a project knowing you're short on space. If you have 7TB of data ready to go, you should have at least that plus another two years worth of space.

Start with a minimum of four 6TB drives. RAIDZ2 and a striped mirror will give you the same amount of useable space - 12 TB. The striped mirror will give you better performance and allows for easier expansion. The RAIDZ2 volume is harder to expand, has worse performance but is more fault tolerant.

If it were me, I'd go striped mirror.

overkilled it with RAM and PSU

I overkill PSU and skimp on RAM.

RAM can easily be added later and doesn't require you to throw anything away. Start with 16GB and it's easy to double it to 32GB if you find you need additional performance.

Power supplies, however, are a complete replacement upgrade and the difference in price between 400W and 650W is relatively tiny. New power supplies are also almost as efficient at 50% as they are 90% load. Buy the highest quality, most efficient power supply and it will last a lifetime through several builds.

wanted to use an SSD as the boot device but I read USB Flash Drives can suffice

Drive bays and SATA ports are relatively expensive. We use USB flash drives to save our bays and ports for actual data. Flash drives, however, are not as reliable as, well, anything else.

So, if you use SSD (or even a dirt-cheap, old 2.5-inch SATA laptop drive you pick up for $10), you can probably get by with just one - no need to mirror. On the other hand, if you're using USB for your boot device, make sure you have it mirrored. (In all cases, you'll want to keep a copy of the FreeNAS config in case your boot device dies.)

There is no reason to choose USB 3.0 over USB 2.0. Rumor is that USB 2.0 has been more reliable but I'm using USB 3.0 because that is what I happened to have. The SSD

The 850 Pro is a waste of money. Get a super-cheap SSD if you go that route. You don't need more than 32GB of space. That'll hold many FreeNAS boot images.

What should I expect in terms of noise and heat? Will three fans be enough?

Always more than you like but probably not bad. Three fans should be plenty.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Quebecman]

Hi and welcome,

That looks like very good choices for hardware, and don't worry about compatibility as your choices are quite sound and mainstream. However, is this a work scenario or home setup? How many users? What's your expected hardware longevity?

Not sure how much longer the LGA1150 socket will last, although there still is so much new hardware being manufactured that it might for sure last another 5 years. To consider if you need to replace the CPU or the DDR3 somewhere down the line, either to upgrade or to replace a failed component.

For hard drives configuration, someone else might chime in and I still have some learning to do, but say you go for 3x 6TB in RaidZ1; you get about 11TB and some space for the future. Lose one drive and you're still good to go in theory; lose another... not so much. Go for 4x 6GB in mirror and you have space for the future (about 12TB). Loose one drive, no problem; loose two drives and you should still be all right, in theory. I don't think 4TB drives serve you well since you are planning for more already. There are more scenarios of course, so make sure you read the documentation. Failures are rare but must be considered.

32GB RAM will make you long lived in the upgrade path. If money is no issue, you can stay with that. Otherwise you could go for 2x8GB and upgrade later to add another 2, and take one or two extra hard drives instead for now.

A 650W PSU is more for a gaming rig, which is not what you have here. So you can downsize with ease. You can still keep the 650 because it won't be strained. But you don't have a high end CPU nor a quad core or eight core CPU, and no GPU card which can be real power hungry beasts, so you can chill with that. Make calculations for 8 drives already and go for that.

120mm fans are usually fairly quiet. Start with three and see how that goes. The PSU and CPU fans are usually what's noisiest. Go with what you have and see if you like it. Then you can decide to change the CPU fan, but nowadays they are quiet enough and so are PSU fans.

For the OS, USB or SSD is up to you. But if you go for USB, take quality known brands, and keep to USB 3 as that is now the standard.

Above all, make sure you also have a backup plan like an external drive, preferably two that you would rotate, and keep one off site. Even if your data is not critical, it's less of a pain to restore from that. It also lessens the necessity for a mirrored drive configuration.

 

[Zuldar]

Hey,

Thank you all for your answers ! That was fast !
I have no fixed budget but as you might expect I want to go as low as possible. I won't possibly be able to afford 8x6 from the start. So I changed the parts a bit after what you guys said.
I'll go with 4x6TB + 2x32GB SSD. All of you said that 16GB of RAM is enough at the beginning, will it hold with this storage configuration? It's quite below the rule of thumb.

About the data, I'll keep a copy of everything on my PC / External hard drives at first. I've never had any hard drive failures in the past but I'm always worried, so even if I do have a backup I'd rather stick to mirrored drives.

Here is the new part list : https://pcpartpicker.com/list/d3Y2zM

Thank you again for your help guys !

 

[GBillR]

Hey,
I'll go with 4x6TB + 2x32GB SSD. All of you said that 16GB of RAM is enough at the beginning, will it hold with this storage configuration? It's quite below the rule of thumb.

What storage configuration do you plan to use? Keep in mind that RaidZ1 is not recommended with drives that large. I would definitely go with mirrors if you intend to go with 4x6TB.

Also, for the same price you could probably move to an X11 Supermicro board with a Skylake i3. That gives you a more sustainable upgrade path down the road, with the ability to use 64Gb of ram.

 

[Quebecman]

Could be worth going to LGA1151 socket to keep some margin to go higher than 32GB RAM, which is the current selected motherboard's limit. But if 12TB mirrored is good for years to come...

 

[Zuldar]

Ultimately, mirrored drives would make me feel safer. If I start with 4x6 and later upgrade to 6x6 it will be enough for some more years. With the rate I've had, I'll probably fill up 1 or 2TB per year so I'm okay.

Switching to X11 would mean change the RAM also, wouldn't it? I've read the forums and the Hardware Guide PDF, that's why I went with X10, since I saw it was the popular / solid choice due to the SAS2 controller. Do you think sticking with X10 would be a major setback?

 

[Quebecman]

You won't be able to go beyond 32GB with the current motherboard. There are perhaps some that can go up to 64GB in LGA1150, I have not looked, but it's an older architecture on it's way out. It's still quite popular though. No word on how long it will last yet, but there is still plenty of hardware today, so who knows... If you can find a 1151 mobo with the SAS2... go for that, for about the same money. And yes, DDR4 then, which is also about the same price at base clock speeds.

If you add another 12TB to the 24 you want now, for sure you will need to go higher than 32GB RAM.

 

[Zuldar]

Okay I will consider that when I start checking for prices. If I were to install FreeNAS on top of a Linux system, would I need to get 64GB SSDs or would 2x32 be enough?

 

[Quebecman]

In order to dual boot your server with Linux and FreeNAS? You mean to share the same drive?

 

[Zuldar]

Yes to share the same drive.

 

[GBillR]

Okay I will consider that when I start checking for prices. If I were to install FreeNAS on top of a Linux system, would I need to get 64GB SSDs or would 2x32 be enough?

There is a Supermicro X11 board with onboard SAS. Personally, I would probably go the route of buying an add-on SAS controller (I can take it with me on future upgrades if I want), but that's me. Also, since you only plan to use 6 drives total, there are several X11 boards with 8 SATA ports. I have one, and I only expect to use a 6 drive pool with this build. I could always add the SAS board later if I change my mind. Eight SATA ports gets me 2 extra: 1 for the boot SSD, and 1 for use if I ever need to replace one of my mirrored drives... I can do so without first removing one of the drives in a 2-disk mirror vdev... much less chance of unrecoverable failure if I am rebuilding a mirror with both pre-existing disks (even if one is starting to fail it will likely still have good data on it).

Read here: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/so-you’ve-decided-to-buy-a-supermicro-x11-board.39549/

And here: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/supermicro-x10-and-x11-motherboard-faq.5/

Also... FreeNAS is it's own OS, forked from FreeBSD. It doesn't install on top of anything... unless you intend to install it in a VM, which I wouldn't recommend for your use case... nor with this hardware. And if no one has said it already: skip the aftermarket CPU cooler. It's not needed. The stock cooler works just fine for this build.

 

[Quebecman]

I haven't tried this, so I can't say how well that can work for installation. Linux installers can usually automatically detect a Windows system setup, but I don't know about it recognizing a FreeBSD-UFS partition. So many Linux distros out there, it's hard to comment. Your aim is to run a Linux server as well?

I've connected a USB drive formatted to FreeBSD-UFS to my Linux Mint and it failed to recognize it. I did not push the issue so it did not mount. I don't think Linux distros recognize ZFS out of the box either.

The other way around I think is also true: which is that I don't think the FreeNAS installer is meant to recognize any current installation on the drive you will install to, in order to do a side by side installation. So you would have to pre-partition that drive.

Size requirement is on the up and up depending on what distro you'll be installing, and what other items like LibreOffice et al. ArchLinux seems scalable to fit any requirements, from bare bones command line to full fledged desktop environment of your choice (KDE, Gnome, etc.). Arch is not for the fainthearted. Any distro with the XCFE desktop ensures a minimal efficient desktop environment.

128GB would not be too far fetched, I think. 64GB should still work on a minimum install. Even 32 perhaps, for both coexisting.

Would perhaps adding Gnome to the FreeNAS install be up to your requirements then? I've seen either a thread (which I have not read) or a video on Youtube (which I have not watched) on that very topic, which I might look into in the future. Could be interesting to navigate into the different folders of the OS, say to easily get to the log files, among other interesting things, whilst the server still runs.

You can also install Linux as VM, but there my knowledge is limited to the fact of knowing it being a possibility. So I'm not 100% sure of that.

 

[Quebecman]

But, dual boot sounds risky especially if you are only getting started with FreeNAS. You'll be into so much learning FreeNAS as it is.

 

[Quebecman]

This is a great thread that supports your choice of a 450W and even 650W PSU:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

 

[Zuldar]

Well anyway Linux was not part of the initial plan :p. Just something I asked out of curiosity. It probably will be more of a hassle than anything.

And if no one has said it already: skip the aftermarket CPU cooler. It's not needed. The stock cooler works just fine for this build.

Yeah I went for that because I wasn't really sure. That's good to know, thank you.

I'll read the topics about X11. I'm just hesitant because I found so much written material on X10 that helped me make the right choices I'm not sure there will be the same amount for X11.
Add-on SAS controller sounds like a good move. I'll think about that as well. Although when you say future upgrades it means the motherboard changes also, right? So if I stay with on-board SAS controller I can just get another one with on-board SAS. I'll sleep on it ^^.

This is a great thread that supports your choice of a 450W and even 650W PSU:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

That's one of the things I used for my calculations. It's actually this thread that oriented me towards the 650W.

Thank you very much for the answers !

 

[snaptec]

You can install linux, virtualize freenas through kvm and passthrough the HBA.
I have such a box running.
But I'm 15 years in unix/Linux.
I would not recommend that a beginner.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

 

[GBillR]

I'll read the topics about X11. I'm just hesitant because I found so much written material on X10 that helped me make the right choices I'm not sure there will be the same amount for X11.

I just went through my first build and had the same dilemma. I believe you'll find more and more builds based on Skylake in the coming years... it is still relatively new in the FreeNAS arena. Ultimately, when I got down to really deciding, I started looking at the hardware specs in the signatures of the forum members... especially those who have written extensively here. I figured if I could find a system or two that I could model my own after, I would be able to ask for help... I wasn't blazing a new trail. In fact, I'm not ashamed to admit that I essentially modeled my build based on what @Ericloewe is using... Figured he wrote the resource guide on X10 and X11 boards, in addition to many other hardware selection resource guides... probably a safe guy to follow. ;)

 

[diedrichg]

For RAIDZ2 I personally feel that a 4 drive configuration is a tragic waste of space and that a 6 drive configuration is minimum.

Check this out to help you decide for yourself:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/38092/