FreeNAS Project Secret History and FreeNAS Mini Resource Center

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ben

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The FreeNAS Team is pleased to announce the release of information pertaining to the secret history of the FreeNAS Project and the FreeNAS Mini at FreeNAS.org/mini. We now welcome the community to submit plans and designs for their own "FreeNAS Mini" devices to mini@freenas.org. We hope that this will lead to a new era of truth and understanding in the FreeNAS Community.
 

paleoN

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I thought the Mini used ECC RAM? It doesn't specify which I take it means it doesn't? :confused:

Of course I may have decided it used ECC for no reason.
 

ben

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The prototype given isn't meant to represent a real build, just to give people an idea of what we would like to see in their submissions.
 

jgreco

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Mythbusters called and they want their drafting supplies back ;-)
 

cyberjock

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So is one of the requirements that the system be small? If I put together a 24U server guide is that "too big"?
 

joeschmuck

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So what is this FreeNAS Mini venture... Are you simply asking people to list their components and create an idiots guide on how to put together a computer?

Although it's not difficult to put together a computer, if proper care isn't taken the end user could easily destroy a component or two which most likely will be costly. I'm not against listing components or addressing a specific concern during the build that would be considered out of the ordinary however proper warnings must be up front so the person building the device has fair warning.

Things I feel are worth addressing are:
1) I also think you should stipulate that each entry must have actually been tried or someone must validate it before it's published as a working system.
2) When listing components list complete part numbers and model numbers, including revision and BIOS/Firmware versions.
3) If known, the power draw idle and under full load, or at least as full as maxing the network throughput (we should establish a test for consistency).

It would be nice to list what the writer believes the system is capable of supporting, for example will it make a good fast file server or maybe a moderate file server. How about if it could handle ZFS V28 deduplication? We know the hardware requirements for that are steep. These are just thoughts I'd like to put out there.

And I agree, since you are calling this the Mini Initiative, are we looking only at mini footprints or would a full size ATX MB be acceptable? If I were getting ready to build another NAS, this time from scratch, I'd like to see all my options. I might want the full size MB that has a lower cost or that might be compatible with a CPU I have laying around.

If these could be grouped when presented by Case Size, or Power Draw, or Speed of the system (however that is defined), and of course Cost.

Last note, besides just submitting these plans to the FreeNAS group, how about posting them here in this thread as well so we all can see them. Maybe we could make constructive comments or validate the writers guide.

Just my two cents...
-Mark
 

Milhouse

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The HP N40L would seem to be the perfect pre-built 4-5 drive solution for FreeNAS Mini - solidly built, reliable, and very, very cheap (£117/$190 after £100 cashback in UK). Certainly a great option for those that don't want to build from scratch and could be used as a reference/baseline platform.

Oh, and TiVo want their meme back (youtube video). :)
 

drinking12many

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The HP N40L would seem to be the perfect pre-built 4-5 drive solution for FreeNAS Mini - solidly built, reliable, and very, very cheap (£117/$190 after £100 cashback in UK). Certainly a great option for those that don't want to build from scratch and could be used as a reference/baseline platform.

Oh, and TiVo want their meme back (youtube video). :)


Thats what I use it doesn't do to bad. I supports up to 8GB of Ram though I am only using 6 and I added a dual port Intel NIC. For the most part it works quite well.
 

jgreco

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Thats what I use it doesn't do to bad. I supports up to 8GB of Ram though I am only using 6 and I added a dual port Intel NIC. For the most part it works quite well.

I believe the N40L is EOL.

The bit that's always annoyed me is that I'd really love to see some sort of chassis that is optimized for six or eight drives of hot-swap, like pretty much any of the Synology/QNAP/etc devices, that took a Mini-ITX, etc., particularly a board that didn't have stupid audio and pointless video connectors, dual Intel GigE's, and *wasn't* an Intel Atom board.
 

Milhouse

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I believe the N40L is EOL.

Interesting, do you have a source for that as there seems to be no evidence of the N40L going EOL in the UK (or that I can find with Google). The N40L is the replacement for the EOL'd N36L, perhaps this is what you are thinking of? Who knows, maybe HP will in turn offer a nice update for the N40L which is now coming up to 1 year old - these little servers do seem extremely popular.

Adding dual Intel GigE NICs is entirely possible (PCIE 1x or 16x slots available), and the N40L does not use Intel Atoms (dual core AMD Turion) though I'm guessing you were hoping for something a bit more meaty, Core i3 or i5 perhaps, even though the N40L (and N36L before it) can provide sufficient IO bandwidth with such a low powered CPU to more than saturate even a dual GigE setup (some rudimentary performance results here). For the basic NAS workload a more powerful CPU seems wasteful, but might prove beneficial if non-NAS workloads (mySQL etc. under moderate loading) were added to the mix.
 

ben

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

In general, what we're looking for is just working builds. As long as they use FreeNAS best practices and tell us what the system is good for, feel free to submit any type of build.
 

jgreco

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I can't point you at anything specific, but availability seems to be constrained, and the platform has been available for about a year, which is typically around the time that the platform will either be refreshed or retired. Seeing as how there doesn't really appear to be any future for the Turion, it isn't clear where HP might go with this. My impression is that HP is struggling to figure out how to cope with the evolution of their enterprise server business, and "experiments" like the MicroServer are likely to wind up scrapped. This article is a sign of things to come.

We have an N36L here in shop; it's underwhelming. Don't get me wrong - it's not bad, but it's not great. The real problem is almost certainly FreeNAS and ZFS, because as you say the theoretical throughput this thing should offer is immense. We benchmarked it as being similar in performance to some of our older Opteron 240EE platforms, which theoretically should be able to swamp their gigE's, but under FreeNAS, they don't (and under FreeBSD with UFS, they *do*). I don't wish the N40L any ill will, but quite frankly I'm going to guess that you won't be able to buy them in six months, and I'd be shocked if you can get them in a year.

The way things have evolved here, it's not really practical to deploy a FreeNAS box for some of our applications. In a VMware environment, availability of the storage area network is very important, but it's very expensive in terms of watts to deploy an X86 based box, since it's difficult to get them sized such that they consume less than maybe 30-40 watts. Combined with ZFS's abysmal performance for iSCSI, we've done something drastic, at least for the short term - we've gotten some "desktop" grade NAS units. They idle around 5 watts (plus whatever the disks take) and are very responsive for iSCSI. We're using six of them as the foundation for our VM environment, and can lose at least two without a problem... redundant array of NAS devices, I guess, haha. But we still have a lot of drive bay capacity in the VM hosts, so running a FreeNAS VM means that we can use resource-rich boxes more efficiently. We just can't use the FreeNAS instances for the actual virtual machines, which kind of stinks.

In the end, I'm kind of disappointed that there isn't something equivalent to the ARM CPU's for X86-land that could be used for NAS. If an Atom, Via, low-end i3, or even Turion based system would idle down in the single digits, that'd be very compelling. The only thing I've seen like that is the Apple Mac mini, which is just too expensive (and locked into a particular form factor/config) to use that way. Everything else I've found is kind of nonideal in one way or another.
 

Milhouse

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I doubt the N40L will remain on sale forever, but I also won't be surprised to see it refreshed given the popularity of the product, though having said that HP are in a bit of a mess right now and predicting their next move is not easy!

I'd agree that FreeNAS probably does have some network-related performance issues, but even so an N40L will still provide more than acceptable network performance over a single NIC which is what most people will use (65MByte/sec transfers up/down is the norm for me with the less powerful N36L, single GigE NIC, RAID-Z1, 8GB RAM).

Also, remember that these things only cost 120 quid (under $200, after cashback) for a fully working, ready built, low power system and could be the perfect solution for a lot of people that just want a simple NAS without too much fuss. I'm not saying you're wrong in your criticisms, far from it, just that they aren't necessarily valid for everyone who might be interested in a small NAS! :)
 

jgreco

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I doubt the N40L will remain on sale forever, but I also won't be surprised to see it refreshed given the popularity of the product

It's hard to see what they'd refresh it with. Athlon/Turion Geneva appears to be a dead-end. AMD's roadmap is a bit of a disaster, so it's quite possible that there's something that they could do that wouldn't require a bunch of re-engineering, but I have no idea what it would be.

I think HP had the right idea with the MicroServer. If they could pull it off with some more modern low-wattage processor, especially one that was capable of more memory, that'd be very cool.
 

Milhouse

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I suppose there's no reason for HP to refresh the N40L with another AMD CPU if Turion is currently a dead end - they could switch to Intel, but is there anything in the Intel locker that is price and performance competitive with what AMD are supplying HP? The latest "budget" i3's seem to start at $40 a piece, assuming they even fit the TDP envelope required for the Microserver. There's probably an Atom that fits the bill, but it's hardly going to be a meaningful upgrade either in terms of performance or memory. In which case HP should just keep selling the N40L until AMD get their act together! :)
 

jgreco

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There's actually a lot of very attractive Atom stuff out there, with the main problem being memory. Siigh.
 
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