FreeNAS for Plex dream build...

[CodeBeing]

I'm seeing several FreeNAS builds and hardware threads from years past, but nothing here in mid-to-later 2018.

Great forum and lots of smart and awesome replies from lots of people.

I just signed up as I'm contemplating a FreeNAS system to run Plex to house all my media. I was eyeing a QNAP 877, although that seems like overkill and pricey, plus I enjoy building my own systems (I have a couple gaming PCs with the latest NVidia GPUs in them, until the 2080's are out soon). I'd like to run several WD Red Pro's to support Plex. I really like the QNAP and Synology NAS because of the low power and quietness of their systems, but lack of CPU and memory for streaming Plex is concerning. If you had an all-out budget, what would you build for Plex running FreeNAS that is small, quiet and decently energy-efficient? Thanks for your time!

 

[jgreco]

You don't need WD Red Pro's for Plex. ZFS does not run noticeably faster with faster drives unless you are placing crippling levels of load on it. For the average scenario where you are doing several sequential file reads (think: media streams) and some other random stuff in the background, you will not benefit. The Pro drives generate more heat and eat more power, which means more cooling, which argues against all of "small, quiet, and energy-efficient."

For something like Plex, which can chew a variable amount of CPU depending on what you're trying to do (transcoding in particular), you probably need to provide a better idea of what you want to be able to do. Plain streaming without transcoding is light and easy. Transcoding multiple concurrent 4K MKV's into other formats is likely to be stressy, I'd think.

 

[Chris Moore]

My wife has been watching a recording of a live concert and you just see a little blip where she started the steam. It is not transcoding.
When we are transcoding, it might hit 20% per stream, depending on the details of what is being done.

 

[Chris Moore]

It is nice to have the resources available for when they are needed, but the processor will be idle most of the time for just FreeNAS and Plex.

Also, no GPU is usable in FreeNAS. All transcode is done by the CPU.

 

[CodeBeing]

You don't need WD Red Pro's for Plex. ZFS does not run noticeably faster with faster drives unless you are placing crippling levels of load on it. For the average scenario where you are doing several sequential file reads (think: media streams) and some other random stuff in the background, you will not benefit. The Pro drives generate more heat and eat more power, which means more cooling, which argues against all of "small, quiet, and energy-efficient."

For something like Plex, which can chew a variable amount of CPU depending on what you're trying to do (transcoding in particular), you probably need to provide a better idea of what you want to be able to do. Plain streaming without transcoding is light and easy. Transcoding multiple concurrent 4K MKV's into other formats is likely to be stressy, I'd think.

First, appreciate your time and efforts to reply!
Great insight! I didn't realize Red Pro's took more power (which, in turn, produces more heat, of course). I just don't like drives to DIE on me. I've had MANY Seagate drives that have died...and want RELIABILITY even if I have to spend MORE. My Synology NAS runs WD Red's and the NAS has been up for YEARS now with ZERO issues. =) It's my file server and currently stores all my movies, music, pictures and personal files (with a backup of personal files and pictures on Microsoft OneDrive).

My MAIN goal, is to have a Plex server that can TRANSCODE 4K streams (at least 4 at once, if possible). I'd like to be able to support at least 10 concurrent users (various 1080p and 4K), as I have 150 up and down at home with Frontier (was Verizon FioS). I plan to store the movies in a NATIVE format to NOT transcode where possible...

 

[CodeBeing]

It is nice to have the resources available for when they are needed, but the processor will be idle most of the time for just FreeNAS and Plex.

Also, no GPU is usable in FreeNAS. All transcode is done by the CPU.

Nice! So, I should get a SUPER fast CPU of some sort? I see people suggesting XEON processors. I typically look at CPU benchmarks and get the best price for performance: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

For FreeNAS, is there something special in the processor I should look for (especially when using Plex)?

For example, in MAME (an arcade emulator), it used to be SINGLE-THREADED for MANY years...so you'd want the absolute fastest single-threaded proc you could find.

Thanks!

 

[kdragon75]

If price is NO object, you could use all DATA CENTER SSDs in a THREE way mirror for SUPER reliability with a Xeon D-2177NT CPU. this would be LOW POWER and FAST!

 

[CodeBeing]

If price is NO object, you could use all DATA CENTER SSDs in a THREE way mirror for SUPER reliability with a Xeon D-2177NT CPU. this would be LOW POWER and FAST!

Data center SSDs. Sorry. About fell over in my chair on prices. =) I should clarify. I don't drive a Ferrari and flake gold on my eggs in the morning for extra minerals. =)

Something under $5K. I'd like to spend a decent amount where it makes sense. Sure, data center SSDs will be RELIABLE, but I'm not competing with AWS or Azure here. I'd like my own private cloud for movies and music, because Microsoft and Amazon don't like you to put copyright media content on their clouds.

 

[Chris Moore]

Great insight! I didn't realize Red Pro's took more power (which, in turn, produces more heat, of course). I just don't like drives to DIE on me. I've had MANY Seagate drives that have died...and want RELIABILITY even if I have to spend MORE. My Synology NAS runs WD Red's and the NAS has been up for YEARS now with ZERO issues. =)

FreeNAS protects your data in ways that other systems can't because of the use of ZFS. Please review this documentation to familiarize yourself withe ZFS:

Slideshow explaining VDev, zpool, ZIL and L2ARC
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ning-vdev-zpool-zil-and-l2arc-for-noobs.7775/

Terminology and Abbreviations Primer
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/terminology-and-abbreviations-primer.28174/

Nice! So, I should get a SUPER fast CPU of some sort? I see people suggesting XEON processors. I typically look at CPU benchmarks and get the best price for performance: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

The reason for Xeon processors is that they support ECC memory which is a key component of the data protection that ZFS offers. Other 'high end' processors may not support ECC memory.

For FreeNAS, is there something special in the processor I should look for (especially when using Plex)?

If you are thinking of integrated graphics in the CPU, no, that doesn't help. It can be useful if the processor has support for encryption.

For example, in MAME (an arcade emulator), it used to be SINGLE-THREADED for MANY years...so you'd want the absolute fastest single-threaded proc you could find.

Single thread performance is somewhat important in FreeNAS because some functions, SAMBA if I recall correctly, are still single thread. However, you do not need to get the fastest 4 GHz (or whatever the best is) processor, you just don't want to uses something like a 1.1 or 1.8 GHz processor because there is a point where it impacts overall performance, no matter how many cores the CPU has.

Something under $5K. I'd like to spend a decent amount where it makes sense.

I don't think it makes sense to buy the latest generation hardware because the cost of it is far too high considering the minimal improvement in performance in the last several years. Additionally, the performance of the hard drives is the ultimate bottleneck in overall performance and the only way to overcome that is to have more drives. I operate a server at work that has 80 drives, in an effort to improve performance, not capacity.

 

[Chris Moore]

When you buy, do you want a rack mount server or a tower system? What is the overall capacity goal? You should probably plan to double what you have now, if not more, but you need to project to the amount of storage you will need in three to six years and have a growth plan. You don't need to buy all the drives at once, but if you were to buy a 24 bay rack chassis and populate eight of the bays initially, you could add eight more drives in two years, and eight more drives two years after that. It would allow the same system to expand in capacity over time and by the time the six year point comes, you can decide if the solution then is to replace the oldest drives with larger capacity drives or replace the entire server with all new technology. Capacity planning.

 

[joeschmuck]

How much data do you want to store? Before you answer this also think about taking this value out to 3 to 5 years becasue your hard drives should be under warranty for at least 3 years but most drives tend to last up to 5 years, some longer. You don't want to run out of storage 2 years after you built the server, it gets costly. WD Reds work great for a project like you are looking to create. Also you mentioned quiet but to get quiet you will sacrafice size a bit. To make things quiet you will need larger cooling fans to pull air into the case, across the drives and motherboard components, and then out the case. Slow turning large fans create virtually no noise. The hard drives such as the WD Reds make very little noise, most of the time you can't hear them unless you are right on top of them. Make a list of exactly what you want your system to do and then build it to meet your goals.

EDIT: Chris just beat me but I'll still leave my posting.

 

[anmnz]

Also you mentioned quiet but to get quiet you will sacrafice size a bit.

Amen to that.

In this context the goal of "small" is in direct conflict with the worthwhile goals that people actually want like "quiet", "energy efficient", "cool" and "cheap". Loads of people on the forums find this unintuitive and annoying. Often after they've already bought a case. Best to give up on "small" if you can.

 

[CodeBeing]

When you buy, do you want a rack mount server or a tower system? What is the overall capacity goal? You should probably plan to double what you have now, if not more, but you need to project to the amount of storage you will need in three to six years and have a growth plan. You don't need to buy all the drives at once, but if you were to buy a 24 bay rack chassis and populate eight of the bays initially, you could add eight more drives in two years, and eight more drives two years after that. It would allow the same system to expand in capacity over time and by the time the six year point comes, you can decide if the solution then is to replace the oldest drives with larger capacity drives or replace the entire server with all new technology. Capacity planning.

Thanks for the all replies! Chris, I'm thinking a traditional tower system, or cube case. I'm also thinking 60TB to start, with 10TB WD Pro drives. When I stated "small", I fully understand cooling of drives and internals, but want the most compact I can get, while not sacrificing cooling. I just drool at the size and form factor of the QNAP and Synology NAS boxes and want a case that supports, say, 6 hot-swappable drive bays (for maintenance you described) and a nice Seasonic or other quiet power supply.

 

[dak180]

I'm seeing several FreeNAS builds and hardware threads from years past, but nothing here in mid-to-later 2018.

Great forum and lots of smart and awesome replies from lots of people.

I just signed up as I'm contemplating a FreeNAS system to run Plex to house all my media.

I built my server (you can see my sig) early this year and I have been really happy with it, especially the noise level: as long as ambient is under 70ºF I cannot hear it at all from more than 3' (and barely when closer); with your transcoding goals you may want to consider a Xeon and the one change I would have made had I not had to worry about budget would be more ram (I will likely add more when prices come down).

 

[Chris Moore]

I wish there were a cost effective way to get a custom case made that is more like what I want. I use rack server chassis so I can have the hot-swap drive bays. There are just not a lot of options for that and most are very expensive.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Moore]

I'm thinking a traditional tower system, or cube case.

One of the reasons I suggest the Fractal Design Define R5 is because of how easy it is to get the drives in and out when you need to change them. Short of spending for a chassis with hot swap bays, it is about the best thing I have seen.
If would impact the other hardware we discussed, but there is a chassis you could build in that is not a rack mount and does have the hot-swap trays. You might want to take a look at this if you have not already committed to purchases.

U-NAS NSC-810A Server Chassis (Power Supply Not Included)
http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17640&cat=&bestseller=Y

I just drool at the size and form factor of the QNAP and Synology NAS boxes and want a case that supports, say, 6 hot-swappable drive bays

This chassis has some significant limitations on what you can put in it because it is so small, and that is why I wouldn't use it myself, but it might be to your liking. Just understand that some things we already talked about won't fit in this and different hardware will need to be selected.

 

[Chris Moore]

I'm also thinking 60TB to start, with 10TB WD Pro drives.

I was just thinking about this. You understand that if you want 60 TB usable, you need more than that "raw". Some people get mixed up on that and end up with less than they expected. Here is a good calculator that you can play with the drive size and count to see what you get and be sure to ask questions if you have any. https://wintelguy.com/zfs-calc.pl

 

[Skro]

I used this in both 11.1-u4 and 11.1-u6 it creates a Plexpass jail using iocage, which should hopefully survive update to 11.2:

iocage create --basejail --release=11.1-RELEASE --name=Plex bpf=yes vnet=on dhcp=on
iocage fstab -a Plex "/path/to/your/media /media nullfs rw 0 0"
iocage start Plex
jls
jexec [plex jail#] csh
portsnap fetch
portsnap extract
portsnap update
cd /usr/ports/multimedia/plexmediaserver-plexpass/ && make install clean
sysrc plexmediaserver_plexpass_enable=YES
service plexmediaserver_plexpass start

 

[Skro]

My bad, wrong post, ignore my lack of coffee

 

[Chris Moore]

My bad, wrong post, ignore my lack of coffee

Useful nonetheless.